Granada Conversion = Bump Steering HELP
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3
From: California
Granada Conversion = Bump Steering HELP
hey everyone so I tore though this forum hoping this question had been asked but i couldn't find a solid answer so here goes. I have a Beautiful 66 Mustang with a Granada front disc brake conversion 
and a 1 inch shelby drop. So basically i know why i have such bad bumb steering but i need a solution.
Ive heard that i should cut the tie rods to allow for proper toe in and to change the sleeves but ive heard that this only helps the bump steering but it could and prolly will still have some.
Ive also been told to look into installing a Baer tracker bump steering Kit however i have power steering and Baer doesnt offer a Kit for PS. Are there any on the market that i could use?
Lastly ive hear of just going to rack and pinion but that would cost around 2K and im a college student so thatz tough. So i was hoping that either some how has had this problem and fixed it or a person that knows suspensions really well could give me some advice. Hopefully this pool of gearheads can help me save my car from being sold because of how much trouble it is. Any experience or relevant info would be appreciated.
and a 1 inch shelby drop. So basically i know why i have such bad bumb steering but i need a solution.Ive heard that i should cut the tie rods to allow for proper toe in and to change the sleeves but ive heard that this only helps the bump steering but it could and prolly will still have some.
Ive also been told to look into installing a Baer tracker bump steering Kit however i have power steering and Baer doesnt offer a Kit for PS. Are there any on the market that i could use?
Lastly ive hear of just going to rack and pinion but that would cost around 2K and im a college student so thatz tough. So i was hoping that either some how has had this problem and fixed it or a person that knows suspensions really well could give me some advice. Hopefully this pool of gearheads can help me save my car from being sold because of how much trouble it is. Any experience or relevant info would be appreciated.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,100
From: Texas Hill Country
Talk a breath...it will be ok. Bump steer is an issue, but often other things cause the darting while bump steer gets the blame.
First off, what is the car doing exactly and when does it do it? I do not want to insult your intelligence, but to help we do not want to over look anything.
What specs did you align the front end with after doing the UCA drop?
What kind of tires do you have? Are they new and/or in good condition?
You mentioned power steering. Are you running the stock power assist steering, an integrated PS box, or what?
What kinds of spindles do you have (year and make)?
Have you cycled the suspension through the height ranges while measuring the toe? That will tell you if you truly have bump steer or something else.
FYI, Total Control Products has a great bump steer kit that I used to make sure my coilover suspension with UCA drop did not have any toe change.
First off, what is the car doing exactly and when does it do it? I do not want to insult your intelligence, but to help we do not want to over look anything.
What specs did you align the front end with after doing the UCA drop?
What kind of tires do you have? Are they new and/or in good condition?
You mentioned power steering. Are you running the stock power assist steering, an integrated PS box, or what?
What kinds of spindles do you have (year and make)?
Have you cycled the suspension through the height ranges while measuring the toe? That will tell you if you truly have bump steer or something else.
FYI, Total Control Products has a great bump steer kit that I used to make sure my coilover suspension with UCA drop did not have any toe change.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3
From: California
Okay i took a breath, and here is more info on my problem. oh and just to be clear i dont know much about suspension so lamens term would be appreciated. Also keep in mind that i bought some1 elses race car hence why i dont know exact info on the car until i take it apart and yes i know that was a bad idea.
So when i drive the car it has a tendency to pull to the right. the faster i go and the harder i brake the worse the problem. Also when ever I hit a bump in the road my car wants to jerk either to the right or left. Its the typical terrifying freeway experience
I know the reason y the car pulls to the right is because the car (both left and right) could not be aligned properly so it is off. However the right is more off. The reason is because i am using the granada outer tie rods and the they were not cut to shortern them. Therefore proper alignment and toe in can't be reached, they run out of thread and this has been confirmed by 3 alignment shops.
My tires are 16' Kumbo "Z-rated Tires" 245-45 and they have about 40% tread left. But my right tire is wearing unevenly because of the misalignment. I do plan on changing the tires as soon as i fix this problem
My PS is a new but stock power assist steering.
My spindles are granada, unfortunately i do not know the year ny idea how i can find it?
As far as cycling through the height i have not, the only thing Ive done as confirmation was taking it to alignment shops and them not being able to fix it. But my dad is helpin me and he was a hot rodder back in the day and he says it for sure bump steering.
would ny1 recomend goin back to mustang outer tie rods and use those special sleeves to help the geometry problem? I have not bought a bump steer kit because i have not been able to find one for the PS application, ive poked around summit but no luck am I just not looking in the right places?
FYI, Total Control Products okay thanks i'll look into it. Ny more help would be graet?
So when i drive the car it has a tendency to pull to the right. the faster i go and the harder i brake the worse the problem. Also when ever I hit a bump in the road my car wants to jerk either to the right or left. Its the typical terrifying freeway experience
I know the reason y the car pulls to the right is because the car (both left and right) could not be aligned properly so it is off. However the right is more off. The reason is because i am using the granada outer tie rods and the they were not cut to shortern them. Therefore proper alignment and toe in can't be reached, they run out of thread and this has been confirmed by 3 alignment shops.
My tires are 16' Kumbo "Z-rated Tires" 245-45 and they have about 40% tread left. But my right tire is wearing unevenly because of the misalignment. I do plan on changing the tires as soon as i fix this problem
My PS is a new but stock power assist steering.
My spindles are granada, unfortunately i do not know the year ny idea how i can find it?
As far as cycling through the height i have not, the only thing Ive done as confirmation was taking it to alignment shops and them not being able to fix it. But my dad is helpin me and he was a hot rodder back in the day and he says it for sure bump steering.
would ny1 recomend goin back to mustang outer tie rods and use those special sleeves to help the geometry problem? I have not bought a bump steer kit because i have not been able to find one for the PS application, ive poked around summit but no luck am I just not looking in the right places?
FYI, Total Control Products okay thanks i'll look into it. Ny more help would be graet?
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 37
From: FL
Urban_Cowboy has you on the right track. Read this and that will help too. http://home.bresnan.net/~dazed/bump
You have two options. 1) Use your Mustang tie rods and get these busing to fit the Granada spindles http://www.mustangsteve.com/tierodbushings.html
2) get Granada tie rods ends. But for certain, whichever you chose, get a GOOD alignment. People vary the specs a little, depending on their application but something like this works:
Caster: +1.5° to +2.5°
Camber: 0 to -.5°
Toe: 1/8"
You have two options. 1) Use your Mustang tie rods and get these busing to fit the Granada spindles http://www.mustangsteve.com/tierodbushings.html
2) get Granada tie rods ends. But for certain, whichever you chose, get a GOOD alignment. People vary the specs a little, depending on their application but something like this works:
Caster: +1.5° to +2.5°
Camber: 0 to -.5°
Toe: 1/8"
5th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,100
From: Texas Hill Country
My thoughts based on what you said are:
1. I had Granada spindles and disc brakes on my 1969 before switching over to Wilwood disc with the big 71+ spindle. I had not problem getting it aligned. I used 3A130-7 I think from NPD.
2. If just one tire is wearing, there is a camber issue on that side...not necessarily bump steer. Also the darting can easily be caused by a worn tire.
3. Until you get the toe, caster, and camber lined out to the specs recommended by Daze and others on this site...no offense to your Dad, but you cannot say for sure that it is bump steer. Even when you get all of that lined out, the only way to set the bump steer kit up is to check for bump steer as I mentioned above, so you might as well check that out but it does not good to do so until you line out the alignment and get tires that are square.
4. Finally, the stock power assist system has an inherent wag to it. A worn steering box, tie rods, or bad alignment really magnify that. Believe me. That is why I ended up moving to a Borgeson box.
Edit: The power steering valve that connects to the pitman arm has some slack in it before the power assist kicks in. This is to prevent an overly touchy wheel. Mine was about an 1/8 turn. That slack with a miss alignment can cause darting too.
You may very well have a bump steer issue that a bump steer kit will fix, but it sounds like you have other issues that might need to be addressed first that may solve your problem.
1. I had Granada spindles and disc brakes on my 1969 before switching over to Wilwood disc with the big 71+ spindle. I had not problem getting it aligned. I used 3A130-7 I think from NPD.
2. If just one tire is wearing, there is a camber issue on that side...not necessarily bump steer. Also the darting can easily be caused by a worn tire.
3. Until you get the toe, caster, and camber lined out to the specs recommended by Daze and others on this site...no offense to your Dad, but you cannot say for sure that it is bump steer. Even when you get all of that lined out, the only way to set the bump steer kit up is to check for bump steer as I mentioned above, so you might as well check that out but it does not good to do so until you line out the alignment and get tires that are square.
4. Finally, the stock power assist system has an inherent wag to it. A worn steering box, tie rods, or bad alignment really magnify that. Believe me. That is why I ended up moving to a Borgeson box.
Edit: The power steering valve that connects to the pitman arm has some slack in it before the power assist kicks in. This is to prevent an overly touchy wheel. Mine was about an 1/8 turn. That slack with a miss alignment can cause darting too.
You may very well have a bump steer issue that a bump steer kit will fix, but it sounds like you have other issues that might need to be addressed first that may solve your problem.
Last edited by urban_cowboy; Jun 22, 2011 at 04:57 PM.
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 229
From:
A Granada spindle geometry is identical to 67-73 Mustang's, so there is no issue with those cars (or yours). The OP's 65-66 is a different situation. There are new production Granada spindles available with 65-66 OE geometry that resolve the bumpsteer issue.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,100
From: Texas Hill Country
Ahhh...good info. I did not know the geometry changed.
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 386
From: Benicia, Ca
Good luck and BE Safe
Ron
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3
From: California
All right thanks for the information very helpfully and Yes the geometry did change for the years 65-66. Alright I plan to replace my granada spindles with the CSRP spindles and hopefully it solves the problem. On a side note once I replace the spindles should I realign my car to the original specs or to a shelby mustangs specs because I have the Shelby drop???