Is there another way arround this problem?
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 419
From: Arizona
Is there another way arround this problem?
with my previous posts and questions and the work that Ive done on my car so far I know that my engine needs rebuilt and probably some other stuff too. with that said comes my next question of Meany.... just haven't thought of the rest yet (but I will)... :P
Ok so Ive been idling rough for awhile (been doing it since I got it just not as bad) and having a hard time staying on when I cold start the engine. I took the spark plugs out and tried to clean them off as much as possible (should have replaced them but I'm on a budget and small things like that add up) put them back in and it didn't seem to change much so I reset the idle mixture screws on my carb (all the way in then 2 complete turns out) and it ran fine and did better on a cold start then.. on my way to and from college today it was idling rougher than normal at the stop light but would smooth out a little bit once the RPM's went up... (also it sounds like there is mettle friction in the engine somewhere but I have enough oil so I don't know what that is) someone said in one of my last posts someone said that I could be having a misfire or some problem with the ignition but I don't want to go in debt replacing a bunch of stuff to find out that its not the problem so any thing I can do to figure this out?
My Car:
289 2v automatic only modification to the car so far is exhaust
any help would be great.... and i'm sorry if my questions are weird or stupid but I'm the type of person that gets worried about small things I notice (but i'm learning slowly but surely)
Oh yeah, I do realize that its only like 10 dollers to get some cheep spark plugs but I just put those spark plugs in not even a month ago and there was some oil on one of them when I was pulling it out and then half looked fine and the other half was quite dirty.
Ok so Ive been idling rough for awhile (been doing it since I got it just not as bad) and having a hard time staying on when I cold start the engine. I took the spark plugs out and tried to clean them off as much as possible (should have replaced them but I'm on a budget and small things like that add up) put them back in and it didn't seem to change much so I reset the idle mixture screws on my carb (all the way in then 2 complete turns out) and it ran fine and did better on a cold start then.. on my way to and from college today it was idling rougher than normal at the stop light but would smooth out a little bit once the RPM's went up... (also it sounds like there is mettle friction in the engine somewhere but I have enough oil so I don't know what that is) someone said in one of my last posts someone said that I could be having a misfire or some problem with the ignition but I don't want to go in debt replacing a bunch of stuff to find out that its not the problem so any thing I can do to figure this out?
My Car:
289 2v automatic only modification to the car so far is exhaust
any help would be great.... and i'm sorry if my questions are weird or stupid but I'm the type of person that gets worried about small things I notice (but i'm learning slowly but surely)
Oh yeah, I do realize that its only like 10 dollers to get some cheep spark plugs but I just put those spark plugs in not even a month ago and there was some oil on one of them when I was pulling it out and then half looked fine and the other half was quite dirty.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,212
From: Hills of California
RE: Is there another way arround this problem?
Yes I remember replying to your other posts.
As for rough idle/hard start did you check your choke plate? what’s it doing when cold/when warm. The low compression in your cylinders is probably 1/2 the problem also idle speed may be too low for the condition of the engine or too low period. Adj idle screw
As for the metal on metal sound it appears that now you have run the engine to the end of its service life. Is it more like a tick, klink, knock, boink or screech sound? If its anything other than tick it could be main bearings or rod. Just because you have oil in the pan and its burns a little though the exhaust DOESNT mean you have oil pressure.
Your only (cheep) option now is to drain all the oil in a clean pan and check for metal dust/chunks/flakes. Also remove the oil filter and cut the case off the filter and check for the same. If you find any metal then your SOL and need to stop driving the car.
If you dont see any metal then its not too late to stop and attempt to locate and remedy the problem. Any metal vs metal sound is an immediate red flag!
Hope this helps
Gun
P.s if your plugs are really dirty after just a month that’s probably a sign of rich burn or oil fouling from ring blow by. Any chance of a photo or are they all clean now?
As for rough idle/hard start did you check your choke plate? what’s it doing when cold/when warm. The low compression in your cylinders is probably 1/2 the problem also idle speed may be too low for the condition of the engine or too low period. Adj idle screw
As for the metal on metal sound it appears that now you have run the engine to the end of its service life. Is it more like a tick, klink, knock, boink or screech sound? If its anything other than tick it could be main bearings or rod. Just because you have oil in the pan and its burns a little though the exhaust DOESNT mean you have oil pressure.
Your only (cheep) option now is to drain all the oil in a clean pan and check for metal dust/chunks/flakes. Also remove the oil filter and cut the case off the filter and check for the same. If you find any metal then your SOL and need to stop driving the car.
If you dont see any metal then its not too late to stop and attempt to locate and remedy the problem. Any metal vs metal sound is an immediate red flag!
Hope this helps
Gun
P.s if your plugs are really dirty after just a month that’s probably a sign of rich burn or oil fouling from ring blow by. Any chance of a photo or are they all clean now?
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 419
From: Arizona
RE: Is there another way arround this problem?
the plugs are clean now....
The sound that I get is more of a swishing sound that is on repeat but its not very loud (I can hear it while I'm idling at a stop light but not while I'm driving) it sounds light mettle to mettle but I could be wrong...
I do get a little bit of a tick when I first start the engine up but it goes away after a couple seconds of running (I'm pretty sure that my lifters are worn out and just doesn't hold oil very well any more so they are just filling up)
One other thing that I think might be related is when the engine is running the harmonic balancer seems to wobble a little bit (and also the watter pump) so could that mean there is something wrong with my harmonic balancer or crank shaft?
lol it just hit me.... I bet it sounds like my car is a pile of crap with everything that Ive been describing, not saying that it isn't but I had to squeeze to get it so I'm just happy I have it..... if I had something else to drive I would but this is it for now so the idea of having to park it doesn't sound appealing so now I'm motivated enough to fix or at least band aid the problem until I can properly fix it.
thanks for the help so far
Edit: If the plugs getting dirty from it running rich then how would I fix that? smaller jets? ive messed with the idle mixtrue screws and choke alot and nothing seems to help.
Ive replaced the points cap and rotor a couple months ago and set it while I was doing the points... Electronic ignition was next on my list but now engine rebuild is
The sound that I get is more of a swishing sound that is on repeat but its not very loud (I can hear it while I'm idling at a stop light but not while I'm driving) it sounds light mettle to mettle but I could be wrong...
I do get a little bit of a tick when I first start the engine up but it goes away after a couple seconds of running (I'm pretty sure that my lifters are worn out and just doesn't hold oil very well any more so they are just filling up)
One other thing that I think might be related is when the engine is running the harmonic balancer seems to wobble a little bit (and also the watter pump) so could that mean there is something wrong with my harmonic balancer or crank shaft?
lol it just hit me.... I bet it sounds like my car is a pile of crap with everything that Ive been describing, not saying that it isn't but I had to squeeze to get it so I'm just happy I have it..... if I had something else to drive I would but this is it for now so the idea of having to park it doesn't sound appealing so now I'm motivated enough to fix or at least band aid the problem until I can properly fix it.
thanks for the help so far
Edit: If the plugs getting dirty from it running rich then how would I fix that? smaller jets? ive messed with the idle mixtrue screws and choke alot and nothing seems to help.
Ive replaced the points cap and rotor a couple months ago and set it while I was doing the points... Electronic ignition was next on my list but now engine rebuild is
6th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,212
From: Hills of California
RE: Is there another way arround this problem?
I bet the metal on metal is from bad water pump bearings. Grab the fan or water pump pulley and with a strong arm force it up and down and left and right. If you feel any play and/or see the pulley move or hear metal clinking then your water pump is bad.
As for mixture I would still bet the plugs were dirty from oil not so much a rich burn I wouldn’t play with the jets yet.
You should also check your plug wires with the car running mist water from a squirt bottle about 1.5 feet away from the plug wires at several locations do it in the shade or low light and look for lightning. If you see any replace the wires. You wont get shocked
(mist not spray)
Let me know what you find
Gun
As for mixture I would still bet the plugs were dirty from oil not so much a rich burn I wouldn’t play with the jets yet.
You should also check your plug wires with the car running mist water from a squirt bottle about 1.5 feet away from the plug wires at several locations do it in the shade or low light and look for lightning. If you see any replace the wires. You wont get shocked
(mist not spray)Let me know what you find
Gun
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 419
From: Arizona
RE: Is there another way arround this problem?
Well I don't need to do that to tell you that...... I was making sure the plug wires were connected one day while the engine was running and the engine thought I needed to wake up a little bit.... so basically I know that I need new plug wires but I didn't want to just replace them, I want to make sure they are the right ones so when I rebuild the engine a beef it up a little it will do the job so that's why I haven't gotten them replaced yet.
What would be good enough for 300ish hp (once I get it there)? 8mm or do I want to go bigger or what?
What would be good enough for 300ish hp (once I get it there)? 8mm or do I want to go bigger or what?
6th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,212
From: Hills of California
RE: Is there another way arround this problem?
A set of MSD 8.5mm would do just fine gonna set you back about 75 bucks though but they are pretty good wires I have mine for about 5 years and no problems yet.
What about that water pump?
Gun
What about that water pump?
Gun
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 419
From: Arizona
RE: Is there another way arround this problem?
I wasnt able to get it to move but that could have been due to the fact that I didnt take the belt off trying to save some time :| (guess I didnt really do that) but I have replaced the water pump since I got it (ive had the car for about 9 months now) could it have gone out that quickly? ill take the belt off tomarrow and check and give you an update.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,212
From: Hills of California
RE: Is there another way arround this problem?
No you dont have to take the belt off, if it were bad it would have moved anyhow. Sounds like the pump is not the problem.
They make this tool that looks like a stethoscope. With an aluminum rod on the end of it, that connects to earpieces. Just place the rod on parts you want to listen to, which may help find the source of the problem. They work very well you can hear fluid moving, bearings spinning it really opens up a whole new world and they are like 10 bucks from napa.
That is about the only suggestion i can give for trying to pin down the source of the metal on metal sound.
Is the sound constant or does it have a beat? Does it change with slight engine rpm increase? Does it make the sound in park, neutral and drive a well? if you get out and listen could you pick a side of the engine say left, right, center? More towards front or rear of engine?
Gun
They make this tool that looks like a stethoscope. With an aluminum rod on the end of it, that connects to earpieces. Just place the rod on parts you want to listen to, which may help find the source of the problem. They work very well you can hear fluid moving, bearings spinning it really opens up a whole new world and they are like 10 bucks from napa.
That is about the only suggestion i can give for trying to pin down the source of the metal on metal sound.
Is the sound constant or does it have a beat? Does it change with slight engine rpm increase? Does it make the sound in park, neutral and drive a well? if you get out and listen could you pick a side of the engine say left, right, center? More towards front or rear of engine?
Gun
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 419
From: Arizona
RE: Is there another way arround this problem?
It does it as long as the engine is running... it has a repetitive beat like when you get a hose with air pressure and while its blowing air run it back and forth across your finger and get a swishing sound. and it sounds almost like its coming from the water pump or somewhere at the front of the engine... could it be the alternator? it looks old and hasnt been touched since I got the car... oh yeah.... 75 bucks for a set of plug wires is out of my price range right now so I guess ill get real cheep ones for the time being and get better ones when I can afford it
6th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,212
From: Hills of California
RE: Is there another way arround this problem?
You can try the same test on the for the water pump on the alternator but may not work for sure.
It could be from the distributor.
Try to wiggle the harmonic dampener for fun see it if breaks off or something.
You could take all the belts off if you have time and give the alternator and water pump a hand spin and see how that goes. also start the car with the belts off for a brief moment and see if it still makes the sound.
You could try asking Kargen auto parts if they have a stethoscope you could barrow i know they loan tools for free. That’s probably your best bet give everything you can think of a listen to. The sound should sick out like a sore thumb when you locate it with the stethoscope.
Gun
It could be from the distributor.
Try to wiggle the harmonic dampener for fun see it if breaks off or something.
You could take all the belts off if you have time and give the alternator and water pump a hand spin and see how that goes. also start the car with the belts off for a brief moment and see if it still makes the sound.
You could try asking Kargen auto parts if they have a stethoscope you could barrow i know they loan tools for free. That’s probably your best bet give everything you can think of a listen to. The sound should sick out like a sore thumb when you locate it with the stethoscope.
Gun