DIY paint and body.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13
From:
DIY paint and body.
A while ago, (months actually) I did the bodywork on my car and took alot of pics and wrote a how-to.
For those of you interested in hail dents and the like, your interests will be covered, but this walkthrough will entail all of the aspects of doing a 100% color change on a car the correct way.
I will explain a few terms I will use alot here.
Hammer- [sm=laughat.gif]
Dolly- usually a piece of steel cast into a certain smooth shape. Some are flat, some are curved, some have lips, some have 90* angles in them and such.
Hammer on dolly method- place and hold the dolly(that conforms to the shape of the inside/outside of the fender etc.) on one side of the work piece(fender etc.) and tap (enough to change the shape of the metal, but not like you want to drive a nail. This applies to any time you have to use the hammer and dolly) it directly with the hammer on the opposite side of the work piece as if the work piece isn't there. If you hit the right way you will hear a *ring* metal on metal type of sound. If you don't hear this you aren't hitting it right.
Hammer off dolly method- place and hold the dolly under a low spot and tap the high spots down with the hammer. You will hear a hollow sound if done right. The rebound effect of tapping the high spots down will cause the low spots to rise. Smart huh? Too bad I didn't invent it.
Stinger- A gun that welds copper studs to bare metal to which you attach a slide hammer and yank away. I always called it a stinger because it, well, stings if you get too close with your fingers.
Stretch the metal- This happens when you work the metal(or the dents did) too much, and the metal literally stretches. The easiest way to tell if the metal is stretched is to push on it. If it buckles then there you go, you've stretched the metal.
Shrink the metal the easy way- Get an oxyacetylene torch with a "rosebud" tip. Heat up the stretched metal until you have a cherry red spot about the size of a dime, then cool it down IMMEDIATELY after the removal of the heat with a big towel, and water, you need it to cool as fast as possible. The idea here is to stretch the metal, forcing the molecules in it to separate with the heat and as the metal is rapidly cooled, the molecules rush together making the area harder and less flexible than what you started with.
Shrink the metal the hard way- this applies to areas that have insulation and paneling on the other side of the metal, such as quarter panels and the like. If you apply heat with a torch you will catch your car on fire and trust me, the smell will not go away. The idea here is to use a shrinking hammer and a shrinking dolly to strengthen the metal. They look like meat cleavers.
Crosshatch sanding- sand in this pattern:
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2...ndas0727dz.jpg
Step one: get the right tools. No, not the buttmuffins down the street, I mean hammers/dollies and the like. I got this kit at Oriely's for $36. It's what I used on 90% of the work I did on my car's body.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/449...ndas0585kf.jpg
Step two: Procure a car. Hopefully you've got this covered, otherwise wtf are you doing reading this thread?
Step three: Tear it down if you want to do a color change the right way. All the way. This means all weatherstripping, doors, fenders, bumpers, window trim, side trim, sunroof, hatch/trunk, hood, gas cap lid, headlight covers, all lights, and even some interior panels that may get in the way of you painting the jams. By jams I mean the area that the doors cover.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/459...ndas0522rc.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/387...ndas0514qu.jpg
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4...ndas0419fz.jpg
Friendly hint to everybody doing this: put all of your nuts and bolts in little plastic bags or boxes labeled with where it went.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5...ndas0481kk.jpg
Next you need to find all of the problem areas on your car that need addressing. If you can see it now is the time to get the labor over with.
Mark all the areas with chalk or something, so you can see it later without missing it.
For hail dents: Hail dents are like craters in dirt. they have the deep impact point as well as a cresting ridge along the outside of the impact higher than what it originally was before the impact. It's like ripples in a pond. To fix this, you can either use body filler and go over it, not even worry about the dent, or you can take it out like I do and smooth it with filler.
First step at removing a hail dent is picking a hammer and dolly that will get the job done the easiest. Note in the above picture there are many different ones. You always want a hammer and dolly that conform to the shape of the area you are working on(the original shape that is). For flat areas you want a flat dolly and hammer, slightly curved areas need a hammer and dolly with a very gradual radius etc etc.
On flat areas the hammer on dolly method seems to work the best here, as one or two taps will get the dent pretty damn perfect. On more severe hail dents(and door dings and other minor dents for that matter) the hammer off dolly method works the best.
For more major and serious "I'm screwed" dents: Always work from the outside of the dent in to the spot of whatever caused the dent. The hammer off dolly method can get you a ways, but most of the time for major dents I resort to my favorite weapon. The Stinger. Weld a handful of rods in a low spot around the center impact point, and yank away. You usually don't have to pull hard, because the heat of the stinger welding the rods to the metal causes it to weaken, making it easier to form. Work your way in towards the center of the impact, welding more and more studs on. You can cut the outer ones off if you feel you wont need to pull them again with a pair of wire cutters. When you're done with the studs, cut them off and grind the stubs down.
Tip: Once you get the metal within 1/16" difference of its original shape you are ok to finish the rest with body filler. If, however, you don't like to use that much like me(no real reason, other than I'm kinda **** about what goes on my car) its ok to continue until its how you like it, just keep in mind that with every hit you weaken the metal, and may cause it to stretch if you go overboard.
Applying body filler: A little hardener goes a long way. Now that I've told you don't yell at me when the filler starts to harden before you're through mixing it. As a general rule of thumb, for every baseball sized glob of filler you have, apply a dime sized glob of hardener. This typically gives you 10 minutes to mix and apply the filler to the areas in need. Keep mixing until you cannot see individual streaks of hardener or filler. Mix it like you're scooping and spreading butter onto a piece of bread. Do not mix it like you're stirring kool-aid. That will give you bubbles in your filler and thats not good.
Tip: Get drastically different colors of filler and hardener, otherwise you don't know if its mixed well or not. So a dark blue hardener and a light green filler is good.
I'll give my recommended and not recommended fillers upon request of an admin/mod, I don't wanna be flagged as a promoter/slanderer.
In order for body filler to properly adhere to the work area, it cannot be smooth, and it must be super clean. Thats to say, if you can see any shiny areas in the paint, you need to scuff it up. 80 grit will do just fine. Sand it down(in no particular pattern) until you can't see any shiny areas. Clean it off with an air nozzle or, if you
For those of you interested in hail dents and the like, your interests will be covered, but this walkthrough will entail all of the aspects of doing a 100% color change on a car the correct way.
I will explain a few terms I will use alot here.
Hammer- [sm=laughat.gif]
Dolly- usually a piece of steel cast into a certain smooth shape. Some are flat, some are curved, some have lips, some have 90* angles in them and such.
Hammer on dolly method- place and hold the dolly(that conforms to the shape of the inside/outside of the fender etc.) on one side of the work piece(fender etc.) and tap (enough to change the shape of the metal, but not like you want to drive a nail. This applies to any time you have to use the hammer and dolly) it directly with the hammer on the opposite side of the work piece as if the work piece isn't there. If you hit the right way you will hear a *ring* metal on metal type of sound. If you don't hear this you aren't hitting it right.
Hammer off dolly method- place and hold the dolly under a low spot and tap the high spots down with the hammer. You will hear a hollow sound if done right. The rebound effect of tapping the high spots down will cause the low spots to rise. Smart huh? Too bad I didn't invent it.
Stinger- A gun that welds copper studs to bare metal to which you attach a slide hammer and yank away. I always called it a stinger because it, well, stings if you get too close with your fingers.
Stretch the metal- This happens when you work the metal(or the dents did) too much, and the metal literally stretches. The easiest way to tell if the metal is stretched is to push on it. If it buckles then there you go, you've stretched the metal.
Shrink the metal the easy way- Get an oxyacetylene torch with a "rosebud" tip. Heat up the stretched metal until you have a cherry red spot about the size of a dime, then cool it down IMMEDIATELY after the removal of the heat with a big towel, and water, you need it to cool as fast as possible. The idea here is to stretch the metal, forcing the molecules in it to separate with the heat and as the metal is rapidly cooled, the molecules rush together making the area harder and less flexible than what you started with.
Shrink the metal the hard way- this applies to areas that have insulation and paneling on the other side of the metal, such as quarter panels and the like. If you apply heat with a torch you will catch your car on fire and trust me, the smell will not go away. The idea here is to use a shrinking hammer and a shrinking dolly to strengthen the metal. They look like meat cleavers.
Crosshatch sanding- sand in this pattern:
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2...ndas0727dz.jpg
Step one: get the right tools. No, not the buttmuffins down the street, I mean hammers/dollies and the like. I got this kit at Oriely's for $36. It's what I used on 90% of the work I did on my car's body.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/449...ndas0585kf.jpg
Step two: Procure a car. Hopefully you've got this covered, otherwise wtf are you doing reading this thread?
Step three: Tear it down if you want to do a color change the right way. All the way. This means all weatherstripping, doors, fenders, bumpers, window trim, side trim, sunroof, hatch/trunk, hood, gas cap lid, headlight covers, all lights, and even some interior panels that may get in the way of you painting the jams. By jams I mean the area that the doors cover.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/459...ndas0522rc.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/387...ndas0514qu.jpg
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4...ndas0419fz.jpg
Friendly hint to everybody doing this: put all of your nuts and bolts in little plastic bags or boxes labeled with where it went.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5...ndas0481kk.jpg
Next you need to find all of the problem areas on your car that need addressing. If you can see it now is the time to get the labor over with.
Mark all the areas with chalk or something, so you can see it later without missing it.
For hail dents: Hail dents are like craters in dirt. they have the deep impact point as well as a cresting ridge along the outside of the impact higher than what it originally was before the impact. It's like ripples in a pond. To fix this, you can either use body filler and go over it, not even worry about the dent, or you can take it out like I do and smooth it with filler.
First step at removing a hail dent is picking a hammer and dolly that will get the job done the easiest. Note in the above picture there are many different ones. You always want a hammer and dolly that conform to the shape of the area you are working on(the original shape that is). For flat areas you want a flat dolly and hammer, slightly curved areas need a hammer and dolly with a very gradual radius etc etc.
On flat areas the hammer on dolly method seems to work the best here, as one or two taps will get the dent pretty damn perfect. On more severe hail dents(and door dings and other minor dents for that matter) the hammer off dolly method works the best.
For more major and serious "I'm screwed" dents: Always work from the outside of the dent in to the spot of whatever caused the dent. The hammer off dolly method can get you a ways, but most of the time for major dents I resort to my favorite weapon. The Stinger. Weld a handful of rods in a low spot around the center impact point, and yank away. You usually don't have to pull hard, because the heat of the stinger welding the rods to the metal causes it to weaken, making it easier to form. Work your way in towards the center of the impact, welding more and more studs on. You can cut the outer ones off if you feel you wont need to pull them again with a pair of wire cutters. When you're done with the studs, cut them off and grind the stubs down.
Tip: Once you get the metal within 1/16" difference of its original shape you are ok to finish the rest with body filler. If, however, you don't like to use that much like me(no real reason, other than I'm kinda **** about what goes on my car) its ok to continue until its how you like it, just keep in mind that with every hit you weaken the metal, and may cause it to stretch if you go overboard.
Applying body filler: A little hardener goes a long way. Now that I've told you don't yell at me when the filler starts to harden before you're through mixing it. As a general rule of thumb, for every baseball sized glob of filler you have, apply a dime sized glob of hardener. This typically gives you 10 minutes to mix and apply the filler to the areas in need. Keep mixing until you cannot see individual streaks of hardener or filler. Mix it like you're scooping and spreading butter onto a piece of bread. Do not mix it like you're stirring kool-aid. That will give you bubbles in your filler and thats not good.
Tip: Get drastically different colors of filler and hardener, otherwise you don't know if its mixed well or not. So a dark blue hardener and a light green filler is good.
I'll give my recommended and not recommended fillers upon request of an admin/mod, I don't wanna be flagged as a promoter/slanderer.
In order for body filler to properly adhere to the work area, it cannot be smooth, and it must be super clean. Thats to say, if you can see any shiny areas in the paint, you need to scuff it up. 80 grit will do just fine. Sand it down(in no particular pattern) until you can't see any shiny areas. Clean it off with an air nozzle or, if you
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13
From:
RE: DIY paint and body.
Moving on.
Primer- This is the heart of your paint job. If you choose poor quality primer or don't prep correctly, your $4,000 paint will look like Jessica Alba wearing used Depends. Not sexy. Or even worse(yes, worse), the paint wont even stick to the car! Again, I will provide my choices of primer, paint, glazing putty, adhesion promoter, and degreaser at the request of an admin/mod.
To prevent such catastrophes, you first need to prep the body. Sand every little nook and cranny of the car with 180 or 220. Anywhere you don't sand, primer will NOT stick. Again, there can't be any shiny spots left on the car. This is assuming you actually had paint on it to begin with.
Now you need to clean all of the residue/dirt off of the car. Here's where that wax and grease remover is your best friend. It works by bringing the dirt and wax from your hands to the surface so you can wipe it off. Do one panel at a time, and make sure whatever you wipe on, you wipe off.
Ok, you ready to paint? Wrong. Do you have plastic bumpers? Plastic doors? Any plastic you want to paint? You need a plastic adhesion promoter. Spray it on all plastic areas, making absolutely sure you don't get it on any metal/fiberglass pieces nearby. This stuff works by opening the pores of the plastic, making it easier to stick primer to.
After that is said and done, time you tape everything off. And, unfortunately, there's a right and a wrong way to tape things off. First, lay the perimeter of the area down with tape. Then, use paper off of rolls or something, but don't use anything with ink on it unless you like text imprinted wherever you're masking. That rules out newspaper.
When you're taped off you are ready for primer.
Equipment needed for painting a car:
1: Air compressor. You need a high capacity (120 gallon or more) with a high work load if you want a smooth paint job.
2: Paint gun. You get what you pay for here. A 30 dollar gun may only last 1 paintjob or so, and even then it will probably be sloppy. HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure) is where its at. In states like California they are required by law because they are more efficient.
3: Mask. Paint fumes can screw your head up fast. We aren't talking spray paint here, this stuff gets everywhere, and there's no stopping it from getting to your brain unless you have a good resporator. I'm talkin with cleanable/replacable canisters that filter the air as you breathe.
4 Laquer thinner for cleaning the gun. Lots of it. A bunch of rags and wire brushes of differend shapes and sizes makes cleaning the gun alot easier.
Mix the primer with reducer/activator if it needs to be, and pour it in your gun using a paint filter. If your gun has one inside, I suggest taking it out, smashing it into little pieces and throwing it into a fire. They're a pain in the butt, so you can do it now or do it later. I never use on inside my guns and I've been doing fine.
Applying primer to the car: After you have the primer in the gun and the compressor on and at full capacity, adjust the guns spray pattern into a tall oval. Use a piece of cardboard or wood to test it on. You want the fullest oval you can get, so don't be afraid to spend some time on it. I think the sweet spot is about a 6" tall oval sprayed from 8"-12" away.
When painting, consistency is key. Keep the gun's spray pattern even with the work surface, meaning if the area curves, you adjust yourself to follow the curve. Don't just tilt your wrist to follow it, move your entire body. Don't lean when painting long stretches down the side of the car either.
Stay the same distance away and travel the same speed down the car all the way through. You start at 10" away you end at 10" away, and you were everywhere in between. If you see runs in the paint you are too close to the area, and need to back away a few inches. If you are more than a foot away and still see runs, you are either going too slow (you really do have to move pretty fast) or your spray pattern isnt adjusted properly. Painting one panel at a time is a good way to stay in control.
3 coats of primer are in order, 2 if you have alot of faith in your previous sanding. I always do a few flash-dry coats and move on to sanding. Again.
Block sanding: Here's where you find out if you did a good enough job on your previous sanding. Block sanding is done with a big, long, hard, sometimes very heavy,
block of course. A guidecoat is needed here too. This can be a can of spraypaint or purpose-made guidecoat. All it really needs to be is a different color than what your primer is. Spraypaint happens to be cheaper.
Spray on the guidecoat. Doesnt need to be thick, but needs to be an even coat all over the car. Everywhere you primered. Thats right, everywhere.
After you've gone through 3 cans of the stuff(if your car was as big as mine), you need some sandpaper. Not the stuff you were using earlier, this stuff needs to be fine, because paint goes on next. I suggest 320 grit or higher. Put the paper on the block and get after it, following the crosshatch pattern.
The point behind this is to see if you missed a spot when you were doing all the grunt work earlier.The high spots will show when you're sanding with the guidecoats coming off of one area and not any of the others. Low spots are found when you see an area thats untouched after sanding. If you see low spots that are shallow enough that you don't need glazing putty, keep sanding in a broad crosshatch to prevent waves, and try to get the rest of the area down to the level of the low spot. If you encounter a high spot while doing this, more hammer/dolly work might be needed depending on the size of the area. Keep in mind a penny sized high spot is probably the tip of an iceberg. If you encounter an "iceberg" like these, use the bullet hammer to tap them down.
After you work out the guidecoat, one or two more coats of primer are due, depending on how much sanding you had to do. After this is done, more sanding! Switch to 600 grit and get after it. All you need to do here is get the primer as smooth as you can, let the sandpaper do the work, don't push on it too hard.
The enemies of primer.
Yes, there are such, and Ill tell them to you because I'm a nice guy. Petroleum products are primers worst enemy. Drive around a primered car? Cool. Ever spill gas on it? Of course you have, its impossible not to. Well you know what? Jeebus you're f*cked Mister! That's right boys and girls, if you decide you want to paint your car you're gonna have to sand that primer all the way off. Anything with petroleum in it will screw your primer by breaking down the properties that tie it together, resulting in "fisheyes". I know a guy with a 1970 Plymouth Barracuda. Supposed to be Plum Crazy Purple. Nuh uh, sorry bro, that moron across the shop was using a petroleum based cleaner on his car, nowhere near you, and you're still effed in the A on Saturday.
Another no no around a primered car(or anything that you hold dear for that matter) is grinding. Even though the sparks aren't going near the car, doesn't mean that everything coming off of the grinding wheel is sparking. Kid in the shop was grinding his fender down after stingin' it, and he got a bunch of pot-marks all over the instructors truck and glass. The next week he caught his van on fire, and later than night he backed out into a 1-ton Ford diesle's tow ball, pulled forward after he realized he hit something, and ripped his back bumper off. Moral of this rant is---Don't be a moron.
The last and probably the most sneaky of them all is tree sap. It will cause fisheyes just as bad as any petroleum-based product. So,
Primer- This is the heart of your paint job. If you choose poor quality primer or don't prep correctly, your $4,000 paint will look like Jessica Alba wearing used Depends. Not sexy. Or even worse(yes, worse), the paint wont even stick to the car! Again, I will provide my choices of primer, paint, glazing putty, adhesion promoter, and degreaser at the request of an admin/mod.
To prevent such catastrophes, you first need to prep the body. Sand every little nook and cranny of the car with 180 or 220. Anywhere you don't sand, primer will NOT stick. Again, there can't be any shiny spots left on the car. This is assuming you actually had paint on it to begin with.
Now you need to clean all of the residue/dirt off of the car. Here's where that wax and grease remover is your best friend. It works by bringing the dirt and wax from your hands to the surface so you can wipe it off. Do one panel at a time, and make sure whatever you wipe on, you wipe off.
Ok, you ready to paint? Wrong. Do you have plastic bumpers? Plastic doors? Any plastic you want to paint? You need a plastic adhesion promoter. Spray it on all plastic areas, making absolutely sure you don't get it on any metal/fiberglass pieces nearby. This stuff works by opening the pores of the plastic, making it easier to stick primer to.
After that is said and done, time you tape everything off. And, unfortunately, there's a right and a wrong way to tape things off. First, lay the perimeter of the area down with tape. Then, use paper off of rolls or something, but don't use anything with ink on it unless you like text imprinted wherever you're masking. That rules out newspaper.
When you're taped off you are ready for primer.
Equipment needed for painting a car:
1: Air compressor. You need a high capacity (120 gallon or more) with a high work load if you want a smooth paint job.
2: Paint gun. You get what you pay for here. A 30 dollar gun may only last 1 paintjob or so, and even then it will probably be sloppy. HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure) is where its at. In states like California they are required by law because they are more efficient.
3: Mask. Paint fumes can screw your head up fast. We aren't talking spray paint here, this stuff gets everywhere, and there's no stopping it from getting to your brain unless you have a good resporator. I'm talkin with cleanable/replacable canisters that filter the air as you breathe.
4 Laquer thinner for cleaning the gun. Lots of it. A bunch of rags and wire brushes of differend shapes and sizes makes cleaning the gun alot easier.
Mix the primer with reducer/activator if it needs to be, and pour it in your gun using a paint filter. If your gun has one inside, I suggest taking it out, smashing it into little pieces and throwing it into a fire. They're a pain in the butt, so you can do it now or do it later. I never use on inside my guns and I've been doing fine.
Applying primer to the car: After you have the primer in the gun and the compressor on and at full capacity, adjust the guns spray pattern into a tall oval. Use a piece of cardboard or wood to test it on. You want the fullest oval you can get, so don't be afraid to spend some time on it. I think the sweet spot is about a 6" tall oval sprayed from 8"-12" away.
When painting, consistency is key. Keep the gun's spray pattern even with the work surface, meaning if the area curves, you adjust yourself to follow the curve. Don't just tilt your wrist to follow it, move your entire body. Don't lean when painting long stretches down the side of the car either.
Stay the same distance away and travel the same speed down the car all the way through. You start at 10" away you end at 10" away, and you were everywhere in between. If you see runs in the paint you are too close to the area, and need to back away a few inches. If you are more than a foot away and still see runs, you are either going too slow (you really do have to move pretty fast) or your spray pattern isnt adjusted properly. Painting one panel at a time is a good way to stay in control.
3 coats of primer are in order, 2 if you have alot of faith in your previous sanding. I always do a few flash-dry coats and move on to sanding. Again.
Block sanding: Here's where you find out if you did a good enough job on your previous sanding. Block sanding is done with a big, long, hard, sometimes very heavy,
block of course. A guidecoat is needed here too. This can be a can of spraypaint or purpose-made guidecoat. All it really needs to be is a different color than what your primer is. Spraypaint happens to be cheaper.
Spray on the guidecoat. Doesnt need to be thick, but needs to be an even coat all over the car. Everywhere you primered. Thats right, everywhere.
After you've gone through 3 cans of the stuff(if your car was as big as mine), you need some sandpaper. Not the stuff you were using earlier, this stuff needs to be fine, because paint goes on next. I suggest 320 grit or higher. Put the paper on the block and get after it, following the crosshatch pattern.
The point behind this is to see if you missed a spot when you were doing all the grunt work earlier.The high spots will show when you're sanding with the guidecoats coming off of one area and not any of the others. Low spots are found when you see an area thats untouched after sanding. If you see low spots that are shallow enough that you don't need glazing putty, keep sanding in a broad crosshatch to prevent waves, and try to get the rest of the area down to the level of the low spot. If you encounter a high spot while doing this, more hammer/dolly work might be needed depending on the size of the area. Keep in mind a penny sized high spot is probably the tip of an iceberg. If you encounter an "iceberg" like these, use the bullet hammer to tap them down.
After you work out the guidecoat, one or two more coats of primer are due, depending on how much sanding you had to do. After this is done, more sanding! Switch to 600 grit and get after it. All you need to do here is get the primer as smooth as you can, let the sandpaper do the work, don't push on it too hard.
The enemies of primer.
Yes, there are such, and Ill tell them to you because I'm a nice guy. Petroleum products are primers worst enemy. Drive around a primered car? Cool. Ever spill gas on it? Of course you have, its impossible not to. Well you know what? Jeebus you're f*cked Mister! That's right boys and girls, if you decide you want to paint your car you're gonna have to sand that primer all the way off. Anything with petroleum in it will screw your primer by breaking down the properties that tie it together, resulting in "fisheyes". I know a guy with a 1970 Plymouth Barracuda. Supposed to be Plum Crazy Purple. Nuh uh, sorry bro, that moron across the shop was using a petroleum based cleaner on his car, nowhere near you, and you're still effed in the A on Saturday.
Another no no around a primered car(or anything that you hold dear for that matter) is grinding. Even though the sparks aren't going near the car, doesn't mean that everything coming off of the grinding wheel is sparking. Kid in the shop was grinding his fender down after stingin' it, and he got a bunch of pot-marks all over the instructors truck and glass. The next week he caught his van on fire, and later than night he backed out into a 1-ton Ford diesle's tow ball, pulled forward after he realized he hit something, and ripped his back bumper off. Moral of this rant is---Don't be a moron.
The last and probably the most sneaky of them all is tree sap. It will cause fisheyes just as bad as any petroleum-based product. So,
6th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,373
From: Wichita, Ks
RE: DIY paint and body.
holy crap man. that was a lot to read. looks like a great write up though. i will defenately save that. im not a mod/admin but you can post what products you think are the best. its a good thing to know. they wont care.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23
RE: DIY paint and body.
Just a few things you may want to add . Removing all trim, lights and moldings is a great start. Before you start doing any body work you need to make sure all the panels fit correctly. Body lines need to line up and all gaps must be even. I would also suggest doing the body work with all metal panels on the car for the same reason. This way you can adjust any fit problems with your body work. When it comes to painting using a quality primed is important. You need to know if the primer has a metal etch in it because if it doesnt the primer will not stick no matter how good you sand. Etch is an acid based additive in some primers that makes it adhere to bare metal. When priming plastic parts that are raw, meaning no paint or primer on them you do need an adhesion promotor. If they already have been painted and you are just repairing some areas then do not use the promoter it will cause lifting and lack of adhesion. Also use a flex additive in the primer that is used on the plastic parts this will keep the primer from cracking when the parts are flexed. I would suggest using a block and 1500 or finer when buffing out the clear. Use a block on all flat areas and stay away from the edges or sharp body lines the clear is the most thin there. I have. been painting cars for almost 20 years so these few things are pretty important
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13
From:
RE: DIY paint and body.
ORIGINAL: CLEAN 03
Just a few things you may want to add . Removing all trim, lights and moldings is a great start. Before you start doing any body work you need to make sure all the panels fit correctly. Body lines need to line up and all gaps must be even. I would also suggest doing the body work with all metal panels on the car for the same reason. This way you can adjust any fit problems with your body work. When it comes to painting using a quality primed is important. You need to know if the primer has a metal etch in it because if it doesnt the primer will not stick no matter how good you sand. Etch is an acid based additive in some primers that makes it adhere to bare metal. When priming plastic parts that are raw, meaning no paint or primer on them you do need an adhesion promotor. If they already have been painted and you are just repairing some areas then do not use the promoter it will cause lifting and lack of adhesion. Also use a flex additive in the primer that is used on the plastic parts this will keep the primer from cracking when the parts are flexed. I would suggest using a block and 1500 or finer when buffing out the clear. Use a block on all flat areas and stay away from the edges or sharp body lines the clear is the most thin there. I have. been painting cars for almost 20 years so these few things are pretty important
Just a few things you may want to add . Removing all trim, lights and moldings is a great start. Before you start doing any body work you need to make sure all the panels fit correctly. Body lines need to line up and all gaps must be even. I would also suggest doing the body work with all metal panels on the car for the same reason. This way you can adjust any fit problems with your body work. When it comes to painting using a quality primed is important. You need to know if the primer has a metal etch in it because if it doesnt the primer will not stick no matter how good you sand. Etch is an acid based additive in some primers that makes it adhere to bare metal. When priming plastic parts that are raw, meaning no paint or primer on them you do need an adhesion promotor. If they already have been painted and you are just repairing some areas then do not use the promoter it will cause lifting and lack of adhesion. Also use a flex additive in the primer that is used on the plastic parts this will keep the primer from cracking when the parts are flexed. I would suggest using a block and 1500 or finer when buffing out the clear. Use a block on all flat areas and stay away from the edges or sharp body lines the clear is the most thin there. I have. been painting cars for almost 20 years so these few things are pretty important
I already had everything in the post that you stated except the panel alignment. I always feel its best to take the panels off when doing a 100% color change, as you can get every nook and cranny. Makes it look like it came from the factory that way.
As for my preffered products:
Paint- PPG is king. If you cannot afford PPG then I suggest you go with a Urethane based paint, such as Dupont's(which is what I bought for my car) line and House of Kolor. Dupont is normally cheaper than HoK, with HoK having a slightly larger selection. I recommend that you get more than you need, so if you're ever in an accident you have the exact same color on hand. No matter how closely people pay attention when mixing paint, the slightest difference (even half a gram) will make the color of the paint change enough that it will be obvious when looking at the two parts side by side.
Primer- Urethane is what you want. I went with Dupont, PPG makes primer as well. Contrary to what people say, the color of the primer has nothing to do with the finish color of the paint.
Glazing putty- Dolphin Glaze or Evercoat.
Body filler- Evercoat.
Plastic adheasion promoter- Bull Dog. They have a bond-flex-tie coat that does all three, so no seperate flex additive is needed.
Wax and grease remover- Theres really not a bad one to use, but I'd stray from the off-name brands anyway.
amrcnidyot, I was born right down the road from you(kinda), in Hutchinson.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23
RE: DIY paint and body.
You do have alot of good information in there but its the details that are important if you are going to write an article about how to paint a car. If you are going to tell someone to take a car apart then you need to also say what is done in between. If you skip right into body work then what do you tell them when the panels dont line up? Again if you tell someone to primer plastic then they need to know what to look for to do a proper job. Doing these steps wrong will lead to big problems down the road. If you tell someone who is a novice or worse to sand clearcoat completly down then what happens when they burn an edge using a buffer? I didnt ask you to write it I'm just telling you to get it clear and complete before someone wastes their money missing some of the important steps.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13
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RE: DIY paint and body.
ORIGINAL: CLEAN 03
You do have alot of good information in there but its the details that are important if you are going to write an article about how to paint a car.
You do have alot of good information in there but its the details that are important if you are going to write an article about how to paint a car.
ORIGINAL: CLEAN 03 If you are going to tell someone to take a car apart then you need to also say what is done in between. If you skip right into body work then what do you tell them when the panels dont line up?
When you take the panels off, there is no way to align them until after the painting process. When you align them on the car, then you aren't doing a 100% color change.
ORIGINAL: CLEAN 03 Again if you tell someone to primer plastic then they need to know what to look for to do a proper job. Doing these steps wrong will lead to big problems down the road.
ORIGINAL: Grdevs24zero Ok, you ready to paint? Wrong. Do you have plastic bumpers? Plastic doors? Any plastic you want to paint? You need a plastic adhesion promoter. Spray it on all plastic areas, making absolutely sure you don't get it on any metal/fiberglass pieces nearby. This stuff works by opening the pores of the plastic, making it easier to stick primer to.
ORIGINAL: CLEAN 03 If you tell someone who is a novice or worse to sand clearcoat completly down then what happens when they burn an edge using a buffer?
ORIGINAL: Grdevs24zero After you've sprayed the clear and its cured, you need to wet-sand. You start with the area looking like a mirror, with a damn near perfect finish. choose 1200+grit and a bucket of water for your weapons here. Wet the sandpaper and begin lightly sanding the clear off. Blocks are easiest to use here, so stick with it. If you have a squeegee, use it instead of a towel to wipe the water off to check your progress. You want the shine to be gone, all you want to see is a cloudy image. The cloud starts to form by coming frist as alot of cloudy dots on a shiny background. They slowly get bigger and finally turn into one big area.
ORIGINAL: Grdevs24zero After you've got it down to this, its time to buff. Start with the buffing compound, squirt a little on the buffer and smear it over the area you want to buff without the buffer turned on, this will prevent you from finding out what the buffing compound tastes like. Slowly bring the buffer up to speed, you don't need it full throttle, just enough to get the job done. Don't keep the buffer on one spot EVER and do not run along extreme edges. It will destroy your paint. Stop every once in a while and "fluff up" the pad if you're using a sheepskin type pad. Keep going until you cannot see any compound left. You should have a near-perfect shine.
ORIGINAL: CLEAN 03 I didnt ask you to write it I'm just telling you to get it clear and complete before someone wastes their money missing some of the important steps.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23
RE: DIY paint and body.
Well I can tell when I'm dealing with a novice in body work. To do a color change you have to remove all panels that is correct, you are right there. But to properly do all your body work the panels must be fitted to the car so all body lines and gaps are correct. This way when you install them on the car after painting you dont need keep adjusting for proper fit. You will already know where to shim any panels that need to be. After you did all that body work on that fender you showed how did you know it would fit the bumper? Did you get lucky or not? That was alot of filler on a fender. Also I am guessing that you are assuming all the paint has been taken off any part that is plastic? If you spray Adhesion promotor on plastic that has paint on it already you will have a big problem. Raw plastic yes it needs promotor but painted plastic does not. You might want to add that also. Lets see HHHMMM> Oh ya sanding clear till the shine is gone. Good idea, right thing to do if you know what you are doing. Try starting with water with a small amount of soap in it and 1500 wet paper. Make sure the water and panels are completly clean so you dont end up scratching the clearcoat. Dont sand to close to any edges this will keep you out of trouble with the buffer. This is the problem with the do it yourself people they think they know but really dont. Going by the pictures you posted I'm guessing you are a helper in a shop and think you know it all already. I can only hope you had someone around that know what they were doing to bail you out.
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 263
From: Michigan
RE: DIY paint and body.
Wow, This is a GREAT article for beginners to read, that would have been a big help to me as a novice that just completed my first job, I just did a LOT of reading online and asked the pros at local body shops for info. BTW - I have a section in my cardomain of how i went through then painting process with pics.