289 vs 302 what's the diff?
6th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,007
From: Citrus County, FL
RE: 289 vs 302 what's the diff?
displacement is determined by bore and stroke. the 289 and 302 share the same bore, but the 302 has a slightly longer stroke. (it's all in the crankshaft)
longer stroke = more torque
shorter stroke = faster revving
that being said, the two are so close there is hardly much of a difference
longer stroke = more torque
shorter stroke = faster revving
that being said, the two are so close there is hardly much of a difference
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 218
RE: 289 vs 302 what's the diff?
OT: does the same hold true for other engine displacements. i.e. FEs 352, 390, up? did they all just have the same bore but different strokes?
also, i know it is a mustang forum but even for pontiac 350s and 400s? (not too familiar with GMs as we are stang oriented)
also, i know it is a mustang forum but even for pontiac 350s and 400s? (not too familiar with GMs as we are stang oriented)
6th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,007
From: Citrus County, FL
RE: 289 vs 302 what's the diff?
baddog - its virtually the same availabilty for both motors. from a block or cylinder head, to a piston ring or camshaft...... if it works for a 302 it works for a 289, and most likely with a 351W
65 vert - 352 ( i think), 360, 390, 427, 428's are all FE motors, alot of parts will interchange between these motors, but i have little firsthand experience with these and dont know the particulars.
now, move on to small block V8 chevys....
283, 302, 305, 307, 327, 350, 400 (and im prolly missing a few lol) all these share certain items - like a pair of heads, intake manifold or a camshaft from a 283 will bolt onto a 400.
283's and 305's had smaller bores, and 283's and some 327's had smaller main journals on the crankshaft. meanwhile the 400 had a uniquely larger bore and larger main journals on the crankshaft.
this is why GM parts are cheap. alot of times one product can fit multiple engine sizes therefore covering just about every full size vehilce chevy made between the late 50's and the mid 90's
also, lots of custom engine sizes are possible by mix matching engine parts. my guess is this is where "stroker motors" originated - but that is backed up by no factual proof whatsoever =)
want a 383 stroker? take a 350 block and slap a 400 crank in it (just gotta grind down the main journals) you can also use differnt connecting rods to obtain different hp/torque results
want a 377 stroker? take a 400 block and toss in a 350 crank (with main bearing spacers to let the smaller journaled 350 crank fit in the 400 block)
we would use a 327 crank in a 400 block and come up with 350 some odd cubic inches..... was a winning combo for the local roundy-round race track
whew..... enough rambling, you guys have a clearer picture now?
65 vert - 352 ( i think), 360, 390, 427, 428's are all FE motors, alot of parts will interchange between these motors, but i have little firsthand experience with these and dont know the particulars.
now, move on to small block V8 chevys....
283, 302, 305, 307, 327, 350, 400 (and im prolly missing a few lol) all these share certain items - like a pair of heads, intake manifold or a camshaft from a 283 will bolt onto a 400.
283's and 305's had smaller bores, and 283's and some 327's had smaller main journals on the crankshaft. meanwhile the 400 had a uniquely larger bore and larger main journals on the crankshaft.
this is why GM parts are cheap. alot of times one product can fit multiple engine sizes therefore covering just about every full size vehilce chevy made between the late 50's and the mid 90's
also, lots of custom engine sizes are possible by mix matching engine parts. my guess is this is where "stroker motors" originated - but that is backed up by no factual proof whatsoever =)
want a 383 stroker? take a 350 block and slap a 400 crank in it (just gotta grind down the main journals) you can also use differnt connecting rods to obtain different hp/torque results
want a 377 stroker? take a 400 block and toss in a 350 crank (with main bearing spacers to let the smaller journaled 350 crank fit in the 400 block)
we would use a 327 crank in a 400 block and come up with 350 some odd cubic inches..... was a winning combo for the local roundy-round race track
whew..... enough rambling, you guys have a clearer picture now?
6th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,007
From: Citrus County, FL
RE: 289 vs 302 what's the diff?
oh yeah, and you can bolt a 351C head on a 289/302/351W block with a little machine work (boss clone basically)
.... and what most of you on here prolly dont know, is with some extreme black magic you can actually stuff a cleveland/modified crank in a windsor block (ALOT of machine work but the main bearing spacing is the same in both engine families)
.... and what most of you on here prolly dont know, is with some extreme black magic you can actually stuff a cleveland/modified crank in a windsor block (ALOT of machine work but the main bearing spacing is the same in both engine families)
5th Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,089
From:
RE: 289 vs 302 what's the diff?
Most 289 blocks will have only 5 bolts for the bell housing versus 6 on the 302's. Otherwise, any part made for either will work on either.
The 360FE is the black sheep of the FE family. Most the others are pretty interchangable.
The 360FE is the black sheep of the FE family. Most the others are pretty interchangable.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,287
From: North Fulton, GA
RE: 289 vs 302 what's the diff?
ORIGINAL: Colorado_Mustang
Most 289 blocks will have only 5 bolts for the bell housing versus 6 on the 302's. .
Most 289 blocks will have only 5 bolts for the bell housing versus 6 on the 302's. .
5th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,566
From: Marquette Mi
RE: 289 vs 302 what's the diff?
FE engines are fun. 360 is close to a 390. So with a slight bore and 390 crank, rods, and pistons you have a 390 in a cheap block.
Some FE bore stroke..
332 4.000 in (101.6 mm) 3.300 in (83.8 mm)
352 4.002 in (101.7 mm) 3.500 in (88.9 mm)
360 4.047 in (102.8 mm) 3.500 in (88.9 mm)
361 4.047 in (102.8 mm) 3.500 in (88.9 mm)
390 4.052 in (102.9 mm) 3.784 in (96.1 mm)
406 4.130 in (104.9 mm) 3.784 in (96.1 mm)
410 4.054 in (103.0 mm) 3.980 in (101.1 mm)
427 4.232 in (107.5 mm) 3.784 in (96.1 mm)
428 4.132 in (105.0 mm) 3.980 in (101.1 mm)
Pontiacs are neither big block nor small blocks. Almost everything on them interchanges. All external parts will bolt to any engine, although there is a manifold angle change in 65 and a valve inclination angle change in 67. heads, intakes, front covers, oil pans, rods, pushrods, rocker arms. all of them are the same or nearly so to the point of them all being somewhat like the Windsor family but using the same rods and blocks.. interchange is awesome on a Pontiac. All had flat top pistons from the factory, and they all had air gap manifolds as well. the first reverse flow cooling system was on the early Pontiacs, and the ball stud rocker arm was developed by a Pontiac engineer in his basement. The Pontiac was the first engine to use that type of rocker arm. It was on many Fords...and nearly every GM.
They came in displacements from 267 to 455 all inside the same block.
interesting thing about 389, 400s, 421, 428s, and 455s, is the bore is verey close in size.
The 400 has a 4.12 bore with a 3.75 stroke
The 428 has the same 4.12 bore with a 4.00 stroke
The 455 has a 4.18 bore with a 4.21 stroke.
The 421,428,455 all have 3.25" main jornals, the 326-350-389-400 have a 3" main jornal (and those engines also have a 3.75" stroke. The bore was changes to increase displacement). So you cant just swap cranks around with out machine work.
it is very popular to stroke a 400 block, there are millions of them made between 67 and 78. Not so many 428/455 blocks are left, but we have plenty of cranks. eagle makes a crank for the 400 that turns it into a 455+ ci engine nd utilizes the 3" mains. my race car has such an engine, its a 467ci 400 block that looks like a 350..lol
Pontiacs are an incredible engine that makes plenty of torque. The aftermarket has finaly realized there is something other than the stupid small block chevy. We have the 5.0 to thank for that, before those were built, you couldnt find any speed parts that really worked for the 302, and fewer still for the Pontiacs.
What matters about an engine is how much CI it displaces, how much air it can move through that displacement, and how efficiently it can do that.
Change the heads, intake, came and exhaust and you can take almost any turd of a stock block and make it run better. Then you are only limited by the structural limits of RPM and mass...
Some FE bore stroke..
332 4.000 in (101.6 mm) 3.300 in (83.8 mm)
352 4.002 in (101.7 mm) 3.500 in (88.9 mm)
360 4.047 in (102.8 mm) 3.500 in (88.9 mm)
361 4.047 in (102.8 mm) 3.500 in (88.9 mm)
390 4.052 in (102.9 mm) 3.784 in (96.1 mm)
406 4.130 in (104.9 mm) 3.784 in (96.1 mm)
410 4.054 in (103.0 mm) 3.980 in (101.1 mm)
427 4.232 in (107.5 mm) 3.784 in (96.1 mm)
428 4.132 in (105.0 mm) 3.980 in (101.1 mm)
Pontiacs are neither big block nor small blocks. Almost everything on them interchanges. All external parts will bolt to any engine, although there is a manifold angle change in 65 and a valve inclination angle change in 67. heads, intakes, front covers, oil pans, rods, pushrods, rocker arms. all of them are the same or nearly so to the point of them all being somewhat like the Windsor family but using the same rods and blocks.. interchange is awesome on a Pontiac. All had flat top pistons from the factory, and they all had air gap manifolds as well. the first reverse flow cooling system was on the early Pontiacs, and the ball stud rocker arm was developed by a Pontiac engineer in his basement. The Pontiac was the first engine to use that type of rocker arm. It was on many Fords...and nearly every GM.
They came in displacements from 267 to 455 all inside the same block.
interesting thing about 389, 400s, 421, 428s, and 455s, is the bore is verey close in size.
The 400 has a 4.12 bore with a 3.75 stroke
The 428 has the same 4.12 bore with a 4.00 stroke
The 455 has a 4.18 bore with a 4.21 stroke.
The 421,428,455 all have 3.25" main jornals, the 326-350-389-400 have a 3" main jornal (and those engines also have a 3.75" stroke. The bore was changes to increase displacement). So you cant just swap cranks around with out machine work.
it is very popular to stroke a 400 block, there are millions of them made between 67 and 78. Not so many 428/455 blocks are left, but we have plenty of cranks. eagle makes a crank for the 400 that turns it into a 455+ ci engine nd utilizes the 3" mains. my race car has such an engine, its a 467ci 400 block that looks like a 350..lol
Pontiacs are an incredible engine that makes plenty of torque. The aftermarket has finaly realized there is something other than the stupid small block chevy. We have the 5.0 to thank for that, before those were built, you couldnt find any speed parts that really worked for the 302, and fewer still for the Pontiacs.
What matters about an engine is how much CI it displaces, how much air it can move through that displacement, and how efficiently it can do that.
Change the heads, intake, came and exhaust and you can take almost any turd of a stock block and make it run better. Then you are only limited by the structural limits of RPM and mass...