Can i use MAF.i.a.??
05-25-2009, 09:48 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Venezuela
Posts: 19
Can i use MAF.i.a.??
Hi Everyone..!!
I have a 1992 gt ford mustang, with bbk full lenght ceramic headers, BBK x-pipe, flowmaster 2.5 exhaust system, bbk intake, march pulleys, msd 6al ignition system (coil, distribuitor), ford racing coil plug.
I see in my wideband i have a mixture of 15.7 at idle (too lean) and wot i still on 15, full throttle i see i have like 14 or 13.7, for my kwonlegde i still lean.. what could be the problem??
Something else, can i use a Maf.i.a on my 1992 just using the 4 wire.¡???
I have a 1992 gt ford mustang, with bbk full lenght ceramic headers, BBK x-pipe, flowmaster 2.5 exhaust system, bbk intake, march pulleys, msd 6al ignition system (coil, distribuitor), ford racing coil plug.
I see in my wideband i have a mixture of 15.7 at idle (too lean) and wot i still on 15, full throttle i see i have like 14 or 13.7, for my kwonlegde i still lean.. what could be the problem??
Something else, can i use a Maf.i.a on my 1992 just using the 4 wire.¡???
05-25-2009, 07:01 PM
#2
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 213
Are you running boost? Or NA?
If you're running boost, wow that sounds really lean! I am at about 14.8 at idle, and all the way down to about 9.5 at WOT (rich, but safe).
I've heard 11.7 is ideal at WOT. Being in the 13s and 14s sounds like you're living on borrowed time.
What kind of fuel system do you have? Injectors, pump, tuner, etc? The MAF could be part of the problem, but the entire fuel system needs to be able to meet your requirements or else you will lean out like that.
If you're running boost, wow that sounds really lean! I am at about 14.8 at idle, and all the way down to about 9.5 at WOT (rich, but safe).
I've heard 11.7 is ideal at WOT. Being in the 13s and 14s sounds like you're living on borrowed time.
What kind of fuel system do you have? Injectors, pump, tuner, etc? The MAF could be part of the problem, but the entire fuel system needs to be able to meet your requirements or else you will lean out like that.
05-26-2009, 07:47 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Venezuela
Posts: 19
Hi!! im not using boost...my fuel system is all stock, now what can you tell me about the Diablosport Maf.i.a?? can i use on my car using the 4 wire with my stock MAF?
Thanks... for the help..
Thanks... for the help..
Last edited by Aletheis; 05-26-2009 at 07:49 AM.
05-26-2009, 05:15 PM
#4
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 213
I've never used the MAFia (I use a 90mm Lightning MAF), but I do know a bit about it.
The MAFia connects in-line between your MAF and the ECU. You set the dial on the MAFia, and it basically acts as a voltage regulator. Your stock MAF works by applying voltage to a lead, and then measuring the temperature of the lead. As more air is drawn across the lead, it takes more voltage to keep the lead at a given temperature. The computer can take the voltage needed to keep it at said temperature, and then calculate exactly how much air is flowing by.
However, your stock MAF can only apply so much voltage to the lead (about 5 volts). When running a forced induction setup, the volume of air flowing over the lead is enough so that even when the MAF is at 5 volts, the ECU can't raise the temperature enough to get it to the desired value. Thus, your MAF is "pegged," and your engine leans out because it thinks that far less air is flowing through the MAF.
The MAFia regulates the voltage going to the MAF, and uses the values transmitted out of it to re-calculate the output voltage. So, if the previous MAF was at 4 volts to signify 60 cubic ft/min of air, with the MAFia it's only at 2 volts. This allows you to extend the stock MAF much further.
****YOU STILL NEED A TUNE TO USE THE MAFIA****
If you don't get tuned, your computer has no idea that the voltage is being regulated. It will think the values are true, and you will run very lean. MAKE SURE YOU TUNE YOUR CAR FOR THE MAFIA.
As far as the 6 vs 4 pin goes, the two pins on the outside are for the integrated IAT. Don't worry about those pins, because AFAIK, the MAFia just passes those through to the ECU. It doesn't use them for anything, so you can run it with or without them installed.
However, for your setup, it doesn't seem like you would need a MAFia. If you aren't running forced induction, then you shouldn't be anywhere near maxing out your stock MAF. Like I said, I don't know what a good WOT AF ratio is on a naturally aspirated engine, so that could be just fine. It sounds lean to me, but I don't really know.
The MAFia connects in-line between your MAF and the ECU. You set the dial on the MAFia, and it basically acts as a voltage regulator. Your stock MAF works by applying voltage to a lead, and then measuring the temperature of the lead. As more air is drawn across the lead, it takes more voltage to keep the lead at a given temperature. The computer can take the voltage needed to keep it at said temperature, and then calculate exactly how much air is flowing by.
However, your stock MAF can only apply so much voltage to the lead (about 5 volts). When running a forced induction setup, the volume of air flowing over the lead is enough so that even when the MAF is at 5 volts, the ECU can't raise the temperature enough to get it to the desired value. Thus, your MAF is "pegged," and your engine leans out because it thinks that far less air is flowing through the MAF.
The MAFia regulates the voltage going to the MAF, and uses the values transmitted out of it to re-calculate the output voltage. So, if the previous MAF was at 4 volts to signify 60 cubic ft/min of air, with the MAFia it's only at 2 volts. This allows you to extend the stock MAF much further.
****YOU STILL NEED A TUNE TO USE THE MAFIA****
If you don't get tuned, your computer has no idea that the voltage is being regulated. It will think the values are true, and you will run very lean. MAKE SURE YOU TUNE YOUR CAR FOR THE MAFIA.
As far as the 6 vs 4 pin goes, the two pins on the outside are for the integrated IAT. Don't worry about those pins, because AFAIK, the MAFia just passes those through to the ECU. It doesn't use them for anything, so you can run it with or without them installed.
However, for your setup, it doesn't seem like you would need a MAFia. If you aren't running forced induction, then you shouldn't be anywhere near maxing out your stock MAF. Like I said, I don't know what a good WOT AF ratio is on a naturally aspirated engine, so that could be just fine. It sounds lean to me, but I don't really know.
05-27-2009, 06:27 PM
#6
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 213
No problem... but that wasn't really what I meant.
You'll need a tune with EVERY MAF adjustment. Unfortunately, our car's aren't smart enough to make their own changes. Do you have the means to retune your ECU? If not, you'll have to pay someone to do it, which will cost at least a few hundred dollars. If you try to run the car with a Lightning MAF connected and no tune, it probably won't even start, and if it does it most likely won't stay running for long.
Your MAF will only limit you if you are taking in more air than the original design of the car intended. Unless you're forcing induction, or have stroked/bored the engine out and increased the displacement, I just can't see how you'd be maxing out the MAF. The Lightning MAF will allow more air to flow and can meter more air, but I can't think of a reason why your car would be getting more air than your stock MAF can handle.
Before buying a $100+ MAF and getting a $200+ tune, I would hook up a fuel pressure gauge and make sure your fuel system is performing correctly. Your fuel pump may be wearing out or failing, or your injectors might be clogged or failing. I would suspect it is something other than the MAF, unless your MAF is simply failing and needs to be replaced (and I would still replace it with a stock MAF unless you plan to go forced induction soon).
If you find anything else out, let me know!
You'll need a tune with EVERY MAF adjustment. Unfortunately, our car's aren't smart enough to make their own changes. Do you have the means to retune your ECU? If not, you'll have to pay someone to do it, which will cost at least a few hundred dollars. If you try to run the car with a Lightning MAF connected and no tune, it probably won't even start, and if it does it most likely won't stay running for long.
Your MAF will only limit you if you are taking in more air than the original design of the car intended. Unless you're forcing induction, or have stroked/bored the engine out and increased the displacement, I just can't see how you'd be maxing out the MAF. The Lightning MAF will allow more air to flow and can meter more air, but I can't think of a reason why your car would be getting more air than your stock MAF can handle.
Before buying a $100+ MAF and getting a $200+ tune, I would hook up a fuel pressure gauge and make sure your fuel system is performing correctly. Your fuel pump may be wearing out or failing, or your injectors might be clogged or failing. I would suspect it is something other than the MAF, unless your MAF is simply failing and needs to be replaced (and I would still replace it with a stock MAF unless you plan to go forced induction soon).
If you find anything else out, let me know!
05-30-2009, 11:11 AM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Venezuela
Posts: 19
Hi AirBrontosaurus!! i bought my mustang two month ago, and i really forget to tell my car dont have the two o2 sensor, i think that could be the problem... what can you tell me about that, if is that the problem, can you suggest a good 02 sensors?
thanks again..
thanks again..
05-30-2009, 11:48 AM
#8
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 213
Unfortunately, the rear O2 sensors don't have anything to do with how well the car runs. They are only there to tell the ECU if the cats are functioning or not. Without the O2s installed, the worst you can get is a check engine light.
As long as you are not getting Check Engine lights, then the car has either been tuned to remove the O2s or they have O2 eliminators wired into them.
I've been doing some reading, and apparently a good Air/Fuel ratio at WOT for a naturally aspirated car is between 12.3-13.3. Yours is definitely higher than that. The odd thing is, your car has the means to tune itself as long as it's relatively stock. You shouldn't have to tune it, because it is designed to keep itself running correctly. When you add boost you need to retune because the stock computer cannot handle that by itself, but looking at your mods I just don't see how your computer could be overloaded.
What's even weirder, your car will throw a check-engine light if it thinks it's too lean. So it seems like your car is pretty sure that it's doing OK.
Did you make sure to calibrate your wideband setup, and do you have a stable ground on it? If the ground is unstable or the sensor is calibrated incorrectly, the readings will be off.
As long as you are not getting Check Engine lights, then the car has either been tuned to remove the O2s or they have O2 eliminators wired into them.
I've been doing some reading, and apparently a good Air/Fuel ratio at WOT for a naturally aspirated car is between 12.3-13.3. Yours is definitely higher than that. The odd thing is, your car has the means to tune itself as long as it's relatively stock. You shouldn't have to tune it, because it is designed to keep itself running correctly. When you add boost you need to retune because the stock computer cannot handle that by itself, but looking at your mods I just don't see how your computer could be overloaded.
What's even weirder, your car will throw a check-engine light if it thinks it's too lean. So it seems like your car is pretty sure that it's doing OK.
Did you make sure to calibrate your wideband setup, and do you have a stable ground on it? If the ground is unstable or the sensor is calibrated incorrectly, the readings will be off.
05-30-2009, 08:06 PM
#9
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lil' Rhody
Posts: 22,376
Unfortunately, the rear O2 sensors don't have anything to do with how well the car runs. They are only there to tell the ECU if the cats are functioning or not. Without the O2s installed, the worst you can get is a check engine light.
As long as you are not getting Check Engine lights, then the car has either been tuned to remove the O2s or they have O2 eliminators wired into them.
I've been doing some reading, and apparently a good Air/Fuel ratio at WOT for a naturally aspirated car is between 12.3-13.3. Yours is definitely higher than that. The odd thing is, your car has the means to tune itself as long as it's relatively stock. You shouldn't have to tune it, because it is designed to keep itself running correctly. When you add boost you need to retune because the stock computer cannot handle that by itself, but looking at your mods I just don't see how your computer could be overloaded.
What's even weirder, your car will throw a check-engine light if it thinks it's too lean. So it seems like your car is pretty sure that it's doing OK.
Did you make sure to calibrate your wideband setup, and do you have a stable ground on it? If the ground is unstable or the sensor is calibrated incorrectly, the readings will be off.
As long as you are not getting Check Engine lights, then the car has either been tuned to remove the O2s or they have O2 eliminators wired into them.
I've been doing some reading, and apparently a good Air/Fuel ratio at WOT for a naturally aspirated car is between 12.3-13.3. Yours is definitely higher than that. The odd thing is, your car has the means to tune itself as long as it's relatively stock. You shouldn't have to tune it, because it is designed to keep itself running correctly. When you add boost you need to retune because the stock computer cannot handle that by itself, but looking at your mods I just don't see how your computer could be overloaded.
What's even weirder, your car will throw a check-engine light if it thinks it's too lean. So it seems like your car is pretty sure that it's doing OK.
Did you make sure to calibrate your wideband setup, and do you have a stable ground on it? If the ground is unstable or the sensor is calibrated incorrectly, the readings will be off.
he said his car doesnt have the O2 sensors... the foxes only had 2 sensors to begin with
05-30-2009, 09:29 PM
#10
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 213
Does the fox use those two O2s for its narrowband air/fuel measurements? Because if so, then that's definitely the problem. The removal of the O2s removed the computer's ability to check it's air/fuel ratio for stoichiometric equilibrium, so all of the fuel changes are made from lookup tables or something.
So, does the Fox use the stock O2s for that? And if not, how do the O2s affect the engine's running? I thought they were only used for cats.