Watts Link Rear Setup
05-09-2007, 01:10 PM
#11
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: Watts Link Rear Setup
ORIGINAL: JasonK026
As most of you probably already know, the new Saleen Parnelli Jones' edition Mustang comes with a Watts-link rear suspension set-up. I've read the reviews on it and it produces, on average, 2X better lap times on open courses.
I want to set my mustang up with this suspension and I know Saleen will be selling it through their parts catalog soon enough, but...
Saleen jacks up the prices on everything they sell and I don't think it's worth it at all. Brand recognition is the only upper hand they have when it comes to other companies like Steeda, Roush, or BMR even.
Does anyone know if any other company is offering this suspension package?
As most of you probably already know, the new Saleen Parnelli Jones' edition Mustang comes with a Watts-link rear suspension set-up. I've read the reviews on it and it produces, on average, 2X better lap times on open courses.
I want to set my mustang up with this suspension and I know Saleen will be selling it through their parts catalog soon enough, but...
Saleen jacks up the prices on everything they sell and I don't think it's worth it at all. Brand recognition is the only upper hand they have when it comes to other companies like Steeda, Roush, or BMR even.
Does anyone know if any other company is offering this suspension package?
Hi JasonK,
The Saleen Watts linkage is the best of the mass produced, easy to buy (andget support for it), Watts linkagesout there. There are some more expensive more race orientedways ofgetting a Watts type lnkage on your S197 but they involve some work on you part where as the SaleenWatts linkage isa fully developed kit ready to drop in. Saleen is always high priced for what you get and this part is no different except that it is unique in the market and they know it. The Watts link is just like the S197 HID lights they offer, they are probably double the price they would be if there wasany true competition but there is not and this kit is the same situation. A superior designed and executed product that offers a significant performanceand NOBODY offers a anything even close. So they jack up th price, this is the it works here in the USA.
IMO if you want the best streetable yet truly race track capable rear axle lateral location system on the market and can afford it Salen has the best period.If you want the best you will find a way to pay for it. If you can't afford it or can't justify buy a good adjustable Panhard bar as the differences are not going to be that great on a well tuned suspension system even on the track.
Cheers/Chip
05-10-2007, 02:38 AM
#13
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: Watts Link Rear Setup
ORIGINAL: RodeoFlyer
Griggs' is now available and is $750 - talked to them this morning
Griggs' is now available and is $750 - talked to them this morning
Hi Rodeo,
The GriggsRacingWatts linkage is not a streetable item. It is a nice design for a race car but on a street car the solid terminiation of the linkages will make your cabin a very noisey place to be. If they had a set of poly bushing for th links it would be prety sweet on the street!
Cheers/Chip
05-13-2007, 06:40 PM
#16
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tri Cities, TN
Posts: 452
RE: Watts Link Rear Setup
F1 pretty much has it in a nutshell. The real reason the Saleen comes with a watts link has nothing to do with performance...it's because the originalPJ TA car came with one, and they wanted to maintain the "traditional" platform as closelyl as they could, not to mention develope a huge mark-up on a fairly popular aftermarket upgrade.
The benefit, even on the race track, will be virtually unnoticable on anything other than a dedicated, pure solid mounted race chassis.
Like F1 stated, with a lowered, stiffer suspension (also with less travel)where the panhard bar is parallel to the groud, the arc that F1 is referring to with the panhard baryields less than (I haven't done the calcs, but I'm sure it's no more than) .030" lateral movement (not taking into consideration mount flex, etc). Poly bushings in the best Watts link are going to yield more movement than that, so IMO, it's not near worth the money, even on a race car, given the added unsprung weight. On other chasis designs it may offer a significant advantage, but on the Mustang, with a (41") panhard bar, not here. There are far beter places to spend money. A good combo poly/rod end panhard bar (like rhe BMR or Spohn) are great, along with a good support. If you go with a race panhard bar, (with two rod ends) you're close to as good as it's going to get.
100% lap time improvement??? Not likely.
The benefit, even on the race track, will be virtually unnoticable on anything other than a dedicated, pure solid mounted race chassis.
Like F1 stated, with a lowered, stiffer suspension (also with less travel)where the panhard bar is parallel to the groud, the arc that F1 is referring to with the panhard baryields less than (I haven't done the calcs, but I'm sure it's no more than) .030" lateral movement (not taking into consideration mount flex, etc). Poly bushings in the best Watts link are going to yield more movement than that, so IMO, it's not near worth the money, even on a race car, given the added unsprung weight. On other chasis designs it may offer a significant advantage, but on the Mustang, with a (41") panhard bar, not here. There are far beter places to spend money. A good combo poly/rod end panhard bar (like rhe BMR or Spohn) are great, along with a good support. If you go with a race panhard bar, (with two rod ends) you're close to as good as it's going to get.
it and it produces, on average, 2X better lap times on open courses
ORIGINAL: F1Fan
Why not? A Watts linkage is technically a superiorlateral locationdesign for a live axle comparedto thestock Panhard bar design. The Saleen Watts linkage is the best of the Watts linkages out there at the moment. The whole point of usinga Watts linkageis to eliminate the slight arcthe rear axle has to travel when a Panhard bar is usedfor lateral location of the rear axle. This makes the car handle better and eliminates the slight difference in handling and grip on a Panhard bar chassis when turning left vs. right. Saleen's Watts link is a very good design withaminimum of additional unsprung weight.
Havingsaid that the differencesshould be noticeable but not certainly earth shattering on a stock S197chassis with the relatively soft stocksuspension. In afirmly sprungand loweredS197 chassis the stock Panhard bar geometry is vastly improved over stockride height.Atstock ride height the S197's Panhard bar at rests is at adownwardangle, almost20 degrees. This angle makes the rear axle travel through alarge arc which moves the rear axle off the chassis centerline significantly.With a properlyloweredS197 chassis the Panhard bar becomesparallel to the ground which helps to minimizes theamount the axle is displaced off the centerline of the chassis improving handling feel and minimizing the difference between left and right hand turns.Sowith a lower, firmly dampened sportsuspension the disadvantages of a Panhard bar areminimized and the disadvantages of the extra weight and unsprung mass of a Watts linkage start to surface especially over rougher surfaces.
Cheers/Chip
ORIGINAL: RodeoFlyer
I wouldn't put any of those on my car. The Saleen is way overpriced and is a contradiction in itself. Why install something to limit axle movement more than a panhard bar and then use poly bushings? The way the other 2 clamp to the axle tubes is hoaky.
A smart man will wait for either Griggs' or RossMustang.com's to come out, which is soon.
I wouldn't put any of those on my car. The Saleen is way overpriced and is a contradiction in itself. Why install something to limit axle movement more than a panhard bar and then use poly bushings? The way the other 2 clamp to the axle tubes is hoaky.
A smart man will wait for either Griggs' or RossMustang.com's to come out, which is soon.
Why not? A Watts linkage is technically a superiorlateral locationdesign for a live axle comparedto thestock Panhard bar design. The Saleen Watts linkage is the best of the Watts linkages out there at the moment. The whole point of usinga Watts linkageis to eliminate the slight arcthe rear axle has to travel when a Panhard bar is usedfor lateral location of the rear axle. This makes the car handle better and eliminates the slight difference in handling and grip on a Panhard bar chassis when turning left vs. right. Saleen's Watts link is a very good design withaminimum of additional unsprung weight.
Havingsaid that the differencesshould be noticeable but not certainly earth shattering on a stock S197chassis with the relatively soft stocksuspension. In afirmly sprungand loweredS197 chassis the stock Panhard bar geometry is vastly improved over stockride height.Atstock ride height the S197's Panhard bar at rests is at adownwardangle, almost20 degrees. This angle makes the rear axle travel through alarge arc which moves the rear axle off the chassis centerline significantly.With a properlyloweredS197 chassis the Panhard bar becomesparallel to the ground which helps to minimizes theamount the axle is displaced off the centerline of the chassis improving handling feel and minimizing the difference between left and right hand turns.Sowith a lower, firmly dampened sportsuspension the disadvantages of a Panhard bar areminimized and the disadvantages of the extra weight and unsprung mass of a Watts linkage start to surface especially over rougher surfaces.
Cheers/Chip
05-14-2007, 03:57 AM
#17
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 1,700
RE: Watts Link Rear Setup
I have rod ends on my ph bar. I've driven one with the Fays unit. It's much better. I'm still not a fan of the clamps on the axle tube though. For the street I believe most people wouldn't notice the difference.For what it costs I don't think it's necessary formost street cars.I should be getting mine from RossMustang.com here pretty quick.
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