Ground Control coilovers installed
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 452
From: Tri Cities, TN
Ground Control coilovers installed
Finally...after almost 8 weeks, Irecieved my Ground Control system and installed it this weekend, and all I can say is, WOW. For the limited street driving I did, it's a whole other world of performance. It's amazing how much grip can be generated when the tires stay in contact with the road. The four double-adjustable Koni's with GC's coilover housingsin the front, and adjustable spring mountsin the rear are a very nicely built, well designed, quality system. It's nice to be able to make an adjustment, and actually notice the difference. GC claims to have done a lot of testing with the new 'Stang, and judging from the baseline they gave me, they've done their homework. I'm going to the alignment shop tomorrow, then it's off to my favorite roads for some real driver impression. What's interesting is, that GC recommends a front sway bar upgrade, and recommends leaving the rear, stock, I drilled the stock front bar with two extra holes and right now I'm in the center, which tightened things up a bit. With about 2* of camber, turn in is a little quicker, and there is NO sign of understeer, except at the very extreme, which is how I like it anyway. Just add a little throttle, and it straightens right out. In the corner, the car seems dead neutral, and very happy, and accelerating out is the same. The car rolls off the corner under full throttle very nicely, and dosen't do anything but exit, and split. I have one 90* corner here near my house, for those of you interested, that's probably around 180'-200' radius, and at about 18-20 deg. bank, with nice approach and exit, with a few nice little bumps, It's a great corner to test on, but it is only one corner. I'll find out the real meat and potatoes tomorrow.
4th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,471
From: California
RE: Ground Control coilovers installed
ORIGINAL: steelcomp
Finally...after almost 8 weeks, Irecieved my Ground Control system and installed it this weekend, and all I can say is, WOW. For the limited street driving I did, it's a whole other world of performance. It's amazing how much grip can be generated when the tires stay in contact with the road. The four double-adjustable Koni's with GC's coilover housingsin the front, and adjustable spring mountsin the rear are a very nicely built, well designed, quality system. It's nice to be able to make an adjustment, and actually notice the difference. GC claims to have done a lot of testing with the new 'Stang, and judging from the baseline they gave me, they've done their homework. I'm going to the alignment shop tomorrow, then it's off to my favorite roads for some real driver impression. What's interesting is, that GC recommends a front sway bar upgrade, and recommends leaving the rear, stock, I drilled the stock front bar with two extra holes and right now I'm in the center, which tightened things up a bit. With about 2* of camber, turn in is a little quicker, and there is NO sign of understeer, except at the very extreme, which is how I like it anyway. Just add a little throttle, and it straightens right out. In the corner, the car seems dead neutral, and very happy, and accelerating out is the same. The car rolls off the corner under full throttle very nicely, and dosen't do anything but exit, and split. I have one 90* corner here near my house, for those of you interested, that's probably around 180'-200' radius, and at about 18-20 deg. bank, with nice approach and exit, with a few nice little bumps, It's a great corner to test on, but it is only one corner. I'll find out the real meat and potatoes tomorrow.
Finally...after almost 8 weeks, Irecieved my Ground Control system and installed it this weekend, and all I can say is, WOW. For the limited street driving I did, it's a whole other world of performance. It's amazing how much grip can be generated when the tires stay in contact with the road. The four double-adjustable Koni's with GC's coilover housingsin the front, and adjustable spring mountsin the rear are a very nicely built, well designed, quality system. It's nice to be able to make an adjustment, and actually notice the difference. GC claims to have done a lot of testing with the new 'Stang, and judging from the baseline they gave me, they've done their homework. I'm going to the alignment shop tomorrow, then it's off to my favorite roads for some real driver impression. What's interesting is, that GC recommends a front sway bar upgrade, and recommends leaving the rear, stock, I drilled the stock front bar with two extra holes and right now I'm in the center, which tightened things up a bit. With about 2* of camber, turn in is a little quicker, and there is NO sign of understeer, except at the very extreme, which is how I like it anyway. Just add a little throttle, and it straightens right out. In the corner, the car seems dead neutral, and very happy, and accelerating out is the same. The car rolls off the corner under full throttle very nicely, and dosen't do anything but exit, and split. I have one 90* corner here near my house, for those of you interested, that's probably around 180'-200' radius, and at about 18-20 deg. bank, with nice approach and exit, with a few nice little bumps, It's a great corner to test on, but it is only one corner. I'll find out the real meat and potatoes tomorrow.
How did you get double adjustable Konis ina Ground Control front coilover? I though GC only offered single adjustable front and rearin theircoilover kits. Did you have GC order a pair of stock Koni struts and then have GC machine and fabthe coilover, hub and anti-roll bar ears on the stock Koni struts? I had considered having Koni build upa setfor meusing Koni 2817 race coiloverstrut insertsbut the cost was sky-high even before I got tothe rear double adjustable dampers and fabrication of the bracket needed to use the Koni 3011 race coilover dampers. So I stopped and kept telling myself that my Mustang is a street car and not to turn it into a race car and ruin a perfectly nice street car like I did to the last 911 I owned.
Cheers/Chip
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 452
From: Tri Cities, TN
RE: Ground Control coilovers installed
GC Fabs their own strut housing and uses a Koni DA strut insert, just as on their single adjustable set up. They are available, but they just don't advertise them. I'm starting to find "little issues" with the design, but nothing that can't be worked around. The reardampenersare 8042-1134SPORT (Special "D"). Not sure what P/N the front strut inserts are, but GC says they're made by Koni to their specs. These are Sport shocks, not race shocks, and the car rides far better than with the Sportlines and stock (blown out) dampeners. Interestingly enough, though, the combination of the Sportlines and stock dampeners worked increadably well, with no understeer, -1.6 deg camber, no steering geometry correction. Out back I have Spohn combo LCA's, BMR relocate brkts, BMR solid spherical UCA w/ adj. UCA mount and poly hsg. bushing, Spohn pan bar and BMR support. This weekend I installed the Steeda hydro bushing support for the front LCA (which looks to be a joke, but we'll see). I've also drilled my stock front AR bar with two more holes to make it adjustable. With teh stock dampners and Sportlines I had very few driving issues AFA clearance, and the car was on rails. It was a little bouncy, especially once the dampeners started to go, but the rates seemed compatable with the springs. On tight 2nd gear twisties, (my real test track) the front would never wash or even squeal. The harder I turned the wheel, the faster it would turn, and generated some pretty impressive cornering grip for 255/40-18 tires (Nitto 555's)
The GC system has much lighter spring rates, and pushed to it's limits, isn't generating the cornering that the previous set up did...yet. It understeers slightly (more than I like) even with -2 deg. camber, and the tires are squealingnow, where they never did before. I seem to have less exit traction, as well, but the differences are slight. I'm using compression dammpening to try and make up for some of that, but ultimtely I'm going to try more spring. (rebound is about where it needs to be) I also slightly increased the ride height fromthe sportlines (about 3/16") so I really can't compare the two set-ups much anymore. I'm also trying to find a set of scales to do some corner balancing, but for now, I'm just using ride height on the alignment rack, which isn't any worse that with a fixed spring length. At least I have that flexability. The adjustability of the shocks is really great. It's nice to be able to make an adjustment and "feel" the difference.
F1...did you get my PM about spring rates?
Any constructive input would be appreciated.
The GC system has much lighter spring rates, and pushed to it's limits, isn't generating the cornering that the previous set up did...yet. It understeers slightly (more than I like) even with -2 deg. camber, and the tires are squealingnow, where they never did before. I seem to have less exit traction, as well, but the differences are slight. I'm using compression dammpening to try and make up for some of that, but ultimtely I'm going to try more spring. (rebound is about where it needs to be) I also slightly increased the ride height fromthe sportlines (about 3/16") so I really can't compare the two set-ups much anymore. I'm also trying to find a set of scales to do some corner balancing, but for now, I'm just using ride height on the alignment rack, which isn't any worse that with a fixed spring length. At least I have that flexability. The adjustability of the shocks is really great. It's nice to be able to make an adjustment and "feel" the difference.
F1...did you get my PM about spring rates?
Any constructive input would be appreciated.
4th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,471
From: California
RE: Ground Control coilovers installed
ORIGINAL: steelcomp
GC Fabs their own strut housing and uses a Koni DA strut insert, just as on their single adjustable set up. They are available, but they just don't advertise them. I'm starting to find "little issues" with the design, but nothing that can't be worked around. The reardampenersare 8042-1134SPORT (Special "D"). Not sure what P/N the front strut inserts are, but GC says they're made by Koni to their specs. These are Sport shocks, not race shocks, and the car rides far better than with the Sportlines and stock (blown out) dampeners. Interestingly enough, though, the combination of the Sportlines and stock dampeners worked increadably well, with no understeer, -1.6 deg camber, no steering geometry correction. Out back I have Spohn combo LCA's, BMR relocate brkts, BMR solid spherical UCA w/ adj. UCA mount and poly hsg. bushing, Spohn pan bar and BMR support. This weekend I installed the Steeda hydro bushing support for the front LCA (which looks to be a joke, but we'll see). I've also drilled my stock front AR bar with two more holes to make it adjustable. With teh stock dampners and Sportlines I had very few driving issues AFA clearance, and the car was on rails. It was a little bouncy, especially once the dampeners started to go, but the rates seemed compatable with the springs. On tight 2nd gear twisties, (my real test track) the front would never wash or even squeal. The harder I turned the wheel, the faster it would turn, and generated some pretty impressive cornering grip for 255/40-18 tires (Nitto 555's)
The GC system has much lighter spring rates, and pushed to it's limits, isn't generating the cornering that the previous set up did...yet. It understeers slightly (more than I like) even with -2 deg. camber, and the tires are squealingnow, where they never did before. I seem to have less exit traction, as well, but the differences are slight. I'm using compression dammpening to try and make up for some of that, but ultimtely I'm going to try more spring. (rebound is about where it needs to be) I also slightly increased the ride height fromthe sportlines (about 3/16") so I really can't compare the two set-ups much anymore. I'm also trying to find a set of scales to do some corner balancing, but for now, I'm just using ride height on the alignment rack, which isn't any worse that with a fixed spring length. At least I have that flexability. The adjustability of the shocks is really great. It's nice to be able to make an adjustment and "feel" the difference.
F1...did you get my PM about spring rates?
Any constructive input would be appreciated.
GC Fabs their own strut housing and uses a Koni DA strut insert, just as on their single adjustable set up. They are available, but they just don't advertise them. I'm starting to find "little issues" with the design, but nothing that can't be worked around. The reardampenersare 8042-1134SPORT (Special "D"). Not sure what P/N the front strut inserts are, but GC says they're made by Koni to their specs. These are Sport shocks, not race shocks, and the car rides far better than with the Sportlines and stock (blown out) dampeners. Interestingly enough, though, the combination of the Sportlines and stock dampeners worked increadably well, with no understeer, -1.6 deg camber, no steering geometry correction. Out back I have Spohn combo LCA's, BMR relocate brkts, BMR solid spherical UCA w/ adj. UCA mount and poly hsg. bushing, Spohn pan bar and BMR support. This weekend I installed the Steeda hydro bushing support for the front LCA (which looks to be a joke, but we'll see). I've also drilled my stock front AR bar with two more holes to make it adjustable. With teh stock dampners and Sportlines I had very few driving issues AFA clearance, and the car was on rails. It was a little bouncy, especially once the dampeners started to go, but the rates seemed compatable with the springs. On tight 2nd gear twisties, (my real test track) the front would never wash or even squeal. The harder I turned the wheel, the faster it would turn, and generated some pretty impressive cornering grip for 255/40-18 tires (Nitto 555's)
The GC system has much lighter spring rates, and pushed to it's limits, isn't generating the cornering that the previous set up did...yet. It understeers slightly (more than I like) even with -2 deg. camber, and the tires are squealingnow, where they never did before. I seem to have less exit traction, as well, but the differences are slight. I'm using compression dammpening to try and make up for some of that, but ultimtely I'm going to try more spring. (rebound is about where it needs to be) I also slightly increased the ride height fromthe sportlines (about 3/16") so I really can't compare the two set-ups much anymore. I'm also trying to find a set of scales to do some corner balancing, but for now, I'm just using ride height on the alignment rack, which isn't any worse that with a fixed spring length. At least I have that flexability. The adjustability of the shocks is really great. It's nice to be able to make an adjustment and "feel" the difference.
F1...did you get my PM about spring rates?
Any constructive input would be appreciated.
I did reply to a PMabout strut bolt torquebut as I replied have notreceived your emails. AFAIKall Koni Spot dampers are a single adjustable designusingfixed non adjustable compression valving (selected by Koni for the axle mass), withadjustable rebound valving via a long internal rod to the top of the damperrquiringthat nice big Koni Sport adjustment ****. If you have a Koni DA strut youprobably have a custom valved Koni race strut dropped into a GC fabricatedlower strut housing with factory style ears for the anti-roll bar and spindle. I think we can tell by wherethe adjusters on the strut, where are the adjusters located?
Your rear dampers are the right part number for the new Koni Sport dampers. These are single tube high pressure gas dampers withsingleadjustable rebound damping. The "Special D" addition means that they arethe stock Koni Sportsthat are revalvedto GC specs. We used to get KoniSports revalved and each valve spec we gave themwas given a different part number suffix along with"Special D" in thepart number. I suppose this is so Koni can repair or rebuild them to the specs needed even iftheoriginal tuner is gone.
When you buy new springs (are these 2.25" or 2.5" springs?), just order a slightly higher rate for the rear than the increment you up the fronts to get your handling balance back. If you can find a local shop or club racer with corner scales you may be able to figure out how much more rear rate increase you need vs. front rate increase. BTW, did you get to spec the springs or did GC just give you some sort of stock rate they like? You know that you can ordersprings anywhere as long as your GC coilovers use a standard I.D. Eibach sells good springs for coilovers as does Koni and Bilstien.
Hope this helps!
Cheers/Chip
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 452
From: Tri Cities, TN
RE: Ground Control coilovers installed
Thanks F1.
The shocks and struts are both double adjustable. The rebound is as you say, adjustable through the top of the shock, and the compression via a click-screw adjustment on the bottom.
The springs are 2.5", and GC uses Eibach springs exclusively. At the last minute, GC decided to change from 425# front, 200#rear. to 380# front, and 175# rear (without asking me). Previously we had agreed on the 425/200, but I was told this would be "better" for my application. I'm not sure I agree at this point. One of my concerns is, at this point I'm already at 3/4 turn from stiff on the front rebound, and 1 1/2 turns rear. Much more spring rate, and I'm going to run out of rebound adjustment. You know what that means.
I'm taking this up with GC Monday. Word of caution if you decide to deal with them. Their product is very nice, but their customer service sucks.
Check your PM's...I was wondering if you know the rates for the Eibach Pro kit springs, and the H&R or Steeda race springs, just for comparison.
Thanks again.
The shocks and struts are both double adjustable. The rebound is as you say, adjustable through the top of the shock, and the compression via a click-screw adjustment on the bottom.
The springs are 2.5", and GC uses Eibach springs exclusively. At the last minute, GC decided to change from 425# front, 200#rear. to 380# front, and 175# rear (without asking me). Previously we had agreed on the 425/200, but I was told this would be "better" for my application. I'm not sure I agree at this point. One of my concerns is, at this point I'm already at 3/4 turn from stiff on the front rebound, and 1 1/2 turns rear. Much more spring rate, and I'm going to run out of rebound adjustment. You know what that means.
I'm taking this up with GC Monday. Word of caution if you decide to deal with them. Their product is very nice, but their customer service sucks.
Check your PM's...I was wondering if you know the rates for the Eibach Pro kit springs, and the H&R or Steeda race springs, just for comparison.
Thanks again.
4th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,471
From: California
RE: Ground Control coilovers installed
ORIGINAL: steelcomp
Thanks F1.
The shocks and struts are both double adjustable. The rebound is as you say, adjustable through the top of the shock, and the compression via a click-screw adjustment on the bottom.
The springs are 2.5", and GC uses Eibach springs exclusively. At the last minute, GC decided to change from 425# front, 200#rear. to 380# front, and 175# rear (without asking me). Previously we had agreed on the 425/200, but I was told this would be "better" for my application. I'm not sure I agree at this point. One of my concerns is, at this point I'm already at 3/4 turn from stiff on the front rebound, and 1 1/2 turns rear. Much more spring rate, and I'm going to run out of rebound adjustment. You know what that means.
I'm taking this up with GC Monday. Word of caution if you decide to deal with them. Their product is very nice, but their customer service sucks.
Check your PM's...I was wondering if you know the rates for the Eibach Pro kit springs, and the H&R or Steeda race springs, just for comparison.
Thanks again.
Thanks F1.
The shocks and struts are both double adjustable. The rebound is as you say, adjustable through the top of the shock, and the compression via a click-screw adjustment on the bottom.
The springs are 2.5", and GC uses Eibach springs exclusively. At the last minute, GC decided to change from 425# front, 200#rear. to 380# front, and 175# rear (without asking me). Previously we had agreed on the 425/200, but I was told this would be "better" for my application. I'm not sure I agree at this point. One of my concerns is, at this point I'm already at 3/4 turn from stiff on the front rebound, and 1 1/2 turns rear. Much more spring rate, and I'm going to run out of rebound adjustment. You know what that means.
I'm taking this up with GC Monday. Word of caution if you decide to deal with them. Their product is very nice, but their customer service sucks.
Check your PM's...I was wondering if you know the rates for the Eibach Pro kit springs, and the H&R or Steeda race springs, just for comparison.
Thanks again.
Hi Steelcomp,
My bad, the rear Koni's are 94-04 GT double adjustable dampers that must be a modified and custom valved version for GC kits. Are the Eibach springs you need for the GC coilovers special in any other way? I mean do you know if the springs are an unusual design or are they regularproduction Eibach 2.5" coilover springs using main/tender/helper combinations.
Once you find a spring rate that suits you better you may want to have the dampers revalved so that your ideal damper setting is closer to the middle of the adjustment range and you don't have the no more adjustment problem you seem so close to bumping up against. These issuesall seem like basicspecs that GC should have already figured out before theyshipped to you.
Cheers/Chip
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 452
From: Tri Cities, TN
RE: Ground Control coilovers installed
Hey F1,
The springs are standard 2 1/2" coils with no tender/helper springs.
Yeah, I was kind of figuring that on the dampening. Spring rates may be closer than I tought. I just need more time to fine tune. GC is working with me on this stuff. We'll get it sorted out.
Thanks.
The springs are standard 2 1/2" coils with no tender/helper springs.
Once you find a spring rate that suits you better you may want to have the dampers revalved so that your ideal damper setting is closer to the middle of the adjustment range and you don't have the no more adjustment problem you seem so close to bumping up against. These issuesall seem like basicspecs that GC should have already figured out before theyshipped to you.
Thanks.
4th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,471
From: California
RE: Ground Control coilovers installed
ORIGINAL: steelcomp
Hey F1,
The springs are standard 2 1/2" coils with no tender/helper springs.
Yeah, I was kind of figuring that on the dampening. Spring rates may be closer than I tought. I just need more time to fine tune. GC is working with me on this stuff. We'll get it sorted out.
Thanks.
Hey F1,
The springs are standard 2 1/2" coils with no tender/helper springs.
Once you find a spring rate that suits you better you may want to have the dampers revalved so that your ideal damper setting is closer to the middle of the adjustment range and you don't have the no more adjustment problem you seem so close to bumping up against. These issuesall seem like basicspecs that GC should have already figured out before theyshipped to you.
Thanks.
Hi steelcomp,
Do you know if GC has tried the main/tender combination out? The Eibach combination spring setupworked very well for us on street driven Porsches with coilovers. They can give you a very good ride on the street with a very agressive spring rate for track work. It can be a bit of work to find the best spring/damping combination for the car but they really do work very well. As I recall Eibach had a spring calculator to help you get into the ball park for rates and lengths. I'll go and see if they still ofer this but is was not a bad starting point to use.
As to the valve damping rate this is not hard to change if you get hooked up with Koni'sservice department. They want to make the car work as much as you do andcan bevery helpful at times. Usually if you are near one end or the other in terms of damping adjustment you start to run into problems.
Cheers/Chip
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 452
From: Tri Cities, TN
RE: Ground Control coilovers installed
Thanks F1,
I'm going to talk to them (GC)today some more. I did a little more tuning and seem to be getting closer. Had a littlte too much compression in the rear, and too much dampening in the front. Nice thing about adjustability, though.
I'm not completely familiar with the main/tender idea on springs. I've seen it on other's and I'm guessing it's sort of a pseudo progressive rateidea? I'd be interested in hearing more about this.
Thanks again
I'm going to talk to them (GC)today some more. I did a little more tuning and seem to be getting closer. Had a littlte too much compression in the rear, and too much dampening in the front. Nice thing about adjustability, though.
I'm not completely familiar with the main/tender idea on springs. I've seen it on other's and I'm guessing it's sort of a pseudo progressive rateidea? I'd be interested in hearing more about this.
Thanks again
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