ttuzun

hi everyone

i am certainly getting a suspension upgrade for my 06 mustang but i am not sure if i should get roush suspension package or get combinations
such as
dampers from Tokico
springs from eibach
panhard bar from somewhere and etc.

the good thing about the roush kit is i can get it from the ford a few minutes from here. Also it would be easier for me to solve my future problems since i would have a connection for warranty etc.

i am a daily driver the road in michigan is in pretty bad shape and especially the hopping is annoying. My main question is would there be a big difference between the kit and the combinations. What is the advantage of gettingdifferent parts from differentbrands?

Thank you

howarmat

Suspension Mod By CrazyAl

F1Fan

Hi ttuzun,

There is nodoubt you can easily buy and install a superior suspension using off the shelf parts for your '06 Mustang than a packaged Roush or Saleen suspension. I've driven them bothand they are not as well developed as you might imaginewould be the case. The big advantage to buying partsby differen manufactures is that you can pick and choosebuying only the bestparts or parts that you would like installed on your car not the parts that the manufactures put in the box with no idea of how and where youdrive.

I've put together some suggested components for others in Michigan and they too have complained about the roads there. Most are pretty happy with the handling and ride. Here are my suggestions for a betterriding than stockS197 but with much better handling and control. This is not going to be aracecar but will handle very competently and ride very well with minimal road noise assumming you have nothing larger than 18" wheels and at least a 27" tall tire mounted. Buy top of the line All-Season tires for best overall performancewith dry performance approacing the best top 2-3 dry tires. Yokohama Advan S.4 or Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires are the BEST on the road in our sizes andcan last more than twice as long as a dry performance tire.

Bilstein HDdampers/stock springs, best ride available,but not intended for use as high-performancedampers
Steeda HD Upper Strut Mounts, adjustable camber,precision needle bearing steering, billet spring seat
Steeda G-Trac Brace, triangulates front lower control arm support
Steeda Street Panhard Bar, light and stiff, provides best rear-axle handling feel/response
Steeda HD Panhard BarBrace,supports Panhard Bar mount, improves location and mount durability
Steeda Front Sway Bar Mount Brace
FRPP M-5638-R FR500C UCA Bushings
FRPP M-5538-A GT500 LCA's

OR if you wantaslightly lowerride heightfor handling/performance you need to add these items:

Steeda Ultralite or H&R Sport, these are some of the lowest Sport spring rates out there, 1" drop
Steeda Bumpsteer Kit
Steeda Control Arm Relocation Kit
Steeda LCA Lower Control ArmRelocation Bracekt
Steeda Adjustable Comp/Street UCA/UCA mount kit

I suggest that you avoid installing larger anti-roll bars as the noise and vibrations are not going to be to your liking. I hope this helps you figure it out any questions just ask!

Cheers!

ttuzun

Hi F1fan

thanks a lot for the info it sure did help but i a have a few questions
everyone is talking about tokico D-spec what do you thing about that one? why you prefered Bilstein instead of D-spec?
and which one of the equipment you listed is crucial if you can list them in an importance list that would be great
cause i was thinking about
dampers, springs, rear sway bar, panhard bar-braces, and lower control arms
all the equipment you listed seemed a lot

Thank you

F1Fan

Hi ttuzun,


I love my D-Specs, they work great for my car, and the way I'm always, changing springs, bars alignment, control arms etc. the adjustability is a god send for a road course tinker like me. But that's me,I live in sunny Southern California where it never snows,it is almost never seriously cold,it almost never rains for long and the roads are generally in good condition.

But you don't live here and you don't have smooth roads and if I'm not mistaken it snows there which is why I recommended the Bilstein HD damper set for your application.I recommended the Bilstein HD's for the comfort factor and the fact that you are probably not a hard-core road course driver. If you are not a hard-core performance driver and you have crappy roads D-Specs whilepretty good performance dampers are probably not the best choice for a daily driven car.A car's ride is largely determined by the struts and dampers you pick along with the aspect ratio (height of the tire sidewalls), of your tires. The stock dampers are O.K. if you have smooth roads but the compression rate is too high and the rebound rate is too low giving the car a harder ride than is necessary and yet still allows for poor control overbody movements or what I call sucky ride and worse handling.

Anideal non-electronically assisteddamper would react differently with different wheel movements depending on the speed and frequency of the wheel movement. A slowspeed compression movement shouldhave the dampers operating at higher compression and rebound damping rates to minimize the floating down the highway feeling that makes people get carsick. Thiswould give thedriver a lot of control when the car is in a steady state corner or in a series of switchback turns back and forthandhigh confidence in what the car is doing. A faster speed compression movement should have the dampers operating at amuchlower level of compression and rebounddamping allowing the wheels to return more quickly to keep the tires in contact with the road surface as when drivingover a series of ripples in the pavement. The problem is that most dampers don't do this because the damping rates need to be developed on the carfor a range of loaded weights and the production vehicle's spring rate to workas in ourideal example and this takes time and money to do at all let alone well. So then what happens when some yutz goes and changes out his 17" or 18" factory Bullitts and 235/55x17/18 tires which weigh 50lbs. each for 20" cast wheels and 295/30x20tires that weigh 90lbs. each? I'll tell you what happens the car rides like crap and handles worseand the new owner complains about it to the dealer he bought the car and wheel package from who no longer cares about the guy they sold the car withbig wheels and tires to because they just wanted to roll another unit off the lot withasfat a profit as possible and all that carefully developed work on the damper rates goes down the toilet.

Of course as good a job asFord did on the body design, engine design and suspension designFord didn't do that great a job with the S197 Mustang O.E. dampers or we wouldn't all be jumping to buy better ones at the first paycheck we could. Bilstein HD struts and dampers are specifically designed to be an extremely high qualityO.E replacement damper with slightly firmer bodycontrol. The design of most Bilstein dampers is a gas monotube or an inverted strut ridingina lower strut housing. Bilsteinhas designed their damper piston valves to be velocity sensitive, which is the key to why they work so well.Bilstein struts and dampers are designed to work over a wide range of suspension settings andvehicle weights so as long as we stay reasonably close to the stock wheel and tire weight they will work as planned and provide a very smooth stable handling profile. Bilstein's HD line is not designed to work with vehicles that are lowered more than an inch or soor withspring rates that are muchhigher than stock(high rate sport or competition springs), or with large increases in unsprung weight (think 85lb. 20" wheels and tires). All of these factors come into play depending on the car but in your case, an unlowered or maybe someday only moderately lowered car with"soft" sport springs anda stock or near stock wheel and tire package the Bilstein HD's are a perfectfit and will provide you with a muchbetter than stock ride and body control.

Be realistic about your goals for the car and how you will use it. Are youreally after a high-performance suspension for your car or are you more aftera car with a great ride and handling?The fact is that the lowerthe ride height is the worse the ridewill become. If the roads are as bad as you say they are (others have told me the same thing and two of my best friendsare from Michigan),and it snows where you live you should not loweryour car or you will end up with a car that is poor riding and the nose will be acting like a snowplow or worseget damaged or torn off bysnow build up.

The top half of thesuspension partsI suggested was a sort of minimal setup and is not a complicated configuration at all to a person who knows suspension. You can go a LOT farther but your location, roads and situation as I understand it based on you post dictated asimple suspension setup.As to the number of items onmy list of goodies, this is a more sophisticated setup than the production line convenient springs, struts, dampers and anti-roll bars sort of setup that Roush and Saleen favor for their shop. Remember, Roush and Saleen are both actually classified ascarmakers and need their improved parts to simply replace the stock Ford parts they took out as quickly as possible to make as much money as they can. The Roush and Saleen suspension setups are relatively crude being no more thanimproved versions of whatcame on the stockcar. The Roush and Saleensuspension upgradesdo not address any of the problemsthey have causedby installingsprings with a lower ride height because it would cost theconsumer too much moneyat the rate they charge and it takes too much time on their lifttoproperly resolvethe problems they justinstalled at the customer's expense.

When you lower the car you alter important suspension geometry items that unless corrected reduce the benefits from installinga sports suspension. Why not make the extra effort and get all you paid for? If you don't want to buy and install all of the parts I've suggested just do the top half of the list, you will be amazed at the improvement in ride and the improved handling and control you have over the car. If you lower the car youmay be disappointed if you do not install the other parts on the list as they wereallselected to work together.

Hope this helps explains how I picked the

ttuzun

damn!! F1Fan the information you gave helped a ton.It pretty much solved every question i had.I can not thank you enough.

and also pretty much everything you said apllies to me, i have 18 inch aluminum stock wheels and i am not a hardcore performance driver. No track or anything. Of course with a car like this its impossible to speed up sometimes but i dont do it a lot... so ride quality and handling is my priority as you explained above...

Also i was actually thinking about lowering my car and using Steeda ultralite as you told.

in a year or two i might movesomewhere else like florida.As my last few questions, would this setup be a good one for awarmer place with better, smoother roads? or at least still acceptable
and also do you have idea on where can i find and order these items? especially the dampers and struts?

Thank you

F1Fan

Hi ttuzun,

Happy to be able to have helped you! If you want to read a more through description look at this thread I posted to. This guy is in a similar situation and wantsmore of a European performancecar much like you want, comfort and speed but not too much speed.[:@] Look at this link: Handling Without Lowering

HTH!

ttuzun

i am reading the information on the post right now
i have looked up the items for a general cost and it came out to be about 500 more than i have planned and i couldnt be able to find steeda precision needle bearing steering. I will find the money somehow though... cause if this is going to be done its needs to be the right way and i also want to lower my car using the ultralite srings.

Thanks a lot again

F1Fan

Hi ttuzun,

That was a piece of work to write, I'm SportsPix on the other site. Well you can do it in phases but if you have a plan and can stick with it you can usually save some money by installing the parts in a logical order. But you need to follow through the installation plan or you can get stuck with a car that is not what you want and may not satisfy your needs in terms of handling andperformance.

How about this:

Phase1
Bilstein HD struts and dampers
Steeda HD Upper Strut Mounts
Steeda Ultralite Sport springs
Phase 1 get you the most basic suspension parts under the car, struts, springs and good quiet strut bearing that don't make that darned popping noise! You will need to get the car carefully aligned after installing the struts and springs. Ask around and see who your friends go to and before you have the car aligned make sure they are familar with perfromance cars and will align your car to YOUR specs! Use a camber setting of -1.5 to -1.75 decrees negative camber andset the toe to 0.0" to 1/16" toe-in with the tires and tie rodsloaded. About $1,200 parts only, add an alignment for $70 to the cost. Hopefully you can find someone to help you with the install for free!

Phase2
Steeda Bumpsteer Kit
Steeda G-trac Brace
SteedaStreet Panahrd Bar
Steeda HD Panhard Bar Brace
Steeda Front Sway Bar Mount Brace
FRPP GT500 LCA's
Phase 2 get you most of the way there and you will start to feel the potential of your car. The bumpsteer kit makes a big diference in stability both in the corners and the straights and the Panhard bar will make the rear-end of the car feel much better. When you push the car you will be rewarded with excellent feedback and you will have a lot more confidance in the cars handling and grip. The FRPP LCA'swill go a long way to reducewheel hop. About $700 plus another alignment mostly to check thetoe after setting the bumpsteer and to checkthrust alignment is good after the LCA change.

Phase 3
Steeda Control Arm Relocation Kit
Steeda LCA Relocation Brackets
Steeda Adjustable Comp/Street UCA/UCA Mount Kit
Phase 3 isthe last part and is veryimportantfor many reasons and is a big part of why this combination works well. As you know there are no bigger anti-roll bars in this combination. I left the anti-roll barsout to try tomaintain the nice ride the car will have. The basic handling balance willremainsimilar toa stock car which is to say with a bit of push but when you are in a corner and on the gas the car will have a more rearward bias and should rotate on command. Butin order to minimize body rollI'm depending on you to install the front control arm relocation kit which raises the roll center back up to the stock position.The LCA relocation brackets will eliminate the car's reluctance to rotate by eliminating the roll understeer caused by the changes in LCA geometry that occured when the car was loweredand allow much harder launches and improve corner exit speeds. The Steeda Comp UCA/UCA mount will put back some of the anti-squat you lost when the car was lowered and eliminates wheel hop and brake hop. About $500 plus maybe$300for the fabrication and welding skills you may not have to accurately position and weld the front relocation and LCA bracket which are critical parts,take your time and tack them in place and confirm they arealigned correctly before welding them in place.

Click on this link, the part is called the Steeda Heavy Duty Upper Strut Mount



How is this phased plan working for you? Get back to me!

Cheers!

ttuzun

This plan looks great
i might even be able to get phase2 with phase1 or right after it...
and for the phase3 i will try to do it as fast as

Now i will focus on finding someone that knows about suspension, my friend told me he would ask his friends from work. He said they know some people.
Again thanks a lot, you helped me tons