NEW Steeda Watts Link
05-05-2008, 09:43 PM
#11
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 151
RE: NEW Steeda Watts Link
ORIGINAL: F1Fan
Hi sonnier,
You are welcome. I toothinkthe Steeda Watt's link will be priced higher than the previous Watt's link offerings form Saleen and Fayes2 but for good reason. I too have an awful lot of Steeda suspension parts on my car but not because I wanted to use parts from a singlesuspension parts maker.I looked at whatwas being offered to the S197 market thencompared my own thinking about what I wanted out of my new S197GT's suspension and what I thoughtthe S197 chassis needed to get there. My opinions arebasedon 35+ years experience as a Germansports and GTcar guy, sometime engine management andsuspension consultant and restorer of two vintage Mustangs who has been a Mulholland Drive/Highway regular for over 35 years from cafe bikes to running race cars at night when nobody was looking and even getting arrested doing 150mph on said road one day. What I found was Steeda was doing pretty much what I would do to addressthese chassis issuesin much the sameway I would address these issues. The stock chassiswas compromised for John Q. public and Auntie M. not a track and canyon crazy carguy coming over fromaserious 35 year addiction to German sports and GT hardware.
If you have a ride issue with the carand you are still on the stockdampers fix that first.Tokico's D-Spec dampers will give you a better rideandmore handling and ride bang for the buck than theKoni Sport dampers. You will be favorably impressed with the improved rear axle behavior over the stutter type bumps like 2 or 3 sets of rail road tracks or minor bumps mid-corner. But if you are ahardcore trackguy whichit seems you're not, the Koni Sports may offer a slight advantage on the track but that potential slight advantage is paid forwth a slight ride and comfort disadvantagethe other 99% of the time you are drivingon the street.
I have to repeat this, you will never get the S197's live axle to behavelike an IRS (independent rear suspension) car over any sort of road irregularities this is just a fact of life. The nature ofall live axles lies in their significantly higher unspring weight and100% coupling between the left and right sides of the axle. These are inescapable design issues witha live axle rear end. Even if you could reduce the weight of the unsprung masses to the same level as a good IRSand somehow magically retain 100% of the strength and reliability of the live axle you would still have that 100% couple between the left and right sides of the axle which is most of the problem with bumpy or minor surface irregularities.Soft bushings and springs can help obscure these issues if the damper's dampening curves are well thought out which we all know is not the case with the stock dampers.
I you have to worry overthe price of a Watt's link just installSteeda'a niceStreet Adjustable Panhard bar and the matching HD PB brace and try them out. The difference between a properly installed stiffadjustable Panhard bar with poly bushings and the stock Panhard bar is very noticable. It willlet you feel a lot more of what is going on with the rear axle and control it much better also. But by the same token you will feel the rear axleskittering more over irregular surfaceseven though it's still only skittering the same amount. This is the improved handling feel.
HTH!
ORIGINAL: sonnier
Thanks for the input F1Fan. I have a feeling as well that it will also cost more just like most Steeda stuff does. That said, I do trust Steeda more than others and it's what I prefer to put on my car. Their products always seem to fit right and are well engineered and it's worth the money to me at least. I have more Steeda parts on my car than my sig says(guess I should update that) and they work well on the track for me. I've been debating on whether to just upgrade my PHB or go with a Watts link but at least for now I'm going to see what more will come out.
Thanks for the input F1Fan. I have a feeling as well that it will also cost more just like most Steeda stuff does. That said, I do trust Steeda more than others and it's what I prefer to put on my car. Their products always seem to fit right and are well engineered and it's worth the money to me at least. I have more Steeda parts on my car than my sig says(guess I should update that) and they work well on the track for me. I've been debating on whether to just upgrade my PHB or go with a Watts link but at least for now I'm going to see what more will come out.
You are welcome. I toothinkthe Steeda Watt's link will be priced higher than the previous Watt's link offerings form Saleen and Fayes2 but for good reason. I too have an awful lot of Steeda suspension parts on my car but not because I wanted to use parts from a singlesuspension parts maker.I looked at whatwas being offered to the S197 market thencompared my own thinking about what I wanted out of my new S197GT's suspension and what I thoughtthe S197 chassis needed to get there. My opinions arebasedon 35+ years experience as a Germansports and GTcar guy, sometime engine management andsuspension consultant and restorer of two vintage Mustangs who has been a Mulholland Drive/Highway regular for over 35 years from cafe bikes to running race cars at night when nobody was looking and even getting arrested doing 150mph on said road one day. What I found was Steeda was doing pretty much what I would do to addressthese chassis issuesin much the sameway I would address these issues. The stock chassiswas compromised for John Q. public and Auntie M. not a track and canyon crazy carguy coming over fromaserious 35 year addiction to German sports and GT hardware.
If you have a ride issue with the carand you are still on the stockdampers fix that first.Tokico's D-Spec dampers will give you a better rideandmore handling and ride bang for the buck than theKoni Sport dampers. You will be favorably impressed with the improved rear axle behavior over the stutter type bumps like 2 or 3 sets of rail road tracks or minor bumps mid-corner. But if you are ahardcore trackguy whichit seems you're not, the Koni Sports may offer a slight advantage on the track but that potential slight advantage is paid forwth a slight ride and comfort disadvantagethe other 99% of the time you are drivingon the street.
I have to repeat this, you will never get the S197's live axle to behavelike an IRS (independent rear suspension) car over any sort of road irregularities this is just a fact of life. The nature ofall live axles lies in their significantly higher unspring weight and100% coupling between the left and right sides of the axle. These are inescapable design issues witha live axle rear end. Even if you could reduce the weight of the unsprung masses to the same level as a good IRSand somehow magically retain 100% of the strength and reliability of the live axle you would still have that 100% couple between the left and right sides of the axle which is most of the problem with bumpy or minor surface irregularities.Soft bushings and springs can help obscure these issues if the damper's dampening curves are well thought out which we all know is not the case with the stock dampers.
I you have to worry overthe price of a Watt's link just installSteeda'a niceStreet Adjustable Panhard bar and the matching HD PB brace and try them out. The difference between a properly installed stiffadjustable Panhard bar with poly bushings and the stock Panhard bar is very noticable. It willlet you feel a lot more of what is going on with the rear axle and control it much better also. But by the same token you will feel the rear axleskittering more over irregular surfaceseven though it's still only skittering the same amount. This is the improved handling feel.
HTH!
05-06-2008, 09:46 PM
#12
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: NEW Steeda Watts Link
ORIGINAL: Kobie
F1,
I'm curious to hear what you think about the design of the Griggs Racing Watts Link.
http://www.griggsracing.com/index.ph...14b6967028e7d5
Someone on another board comented that this was the best design out there. The price seems to be pretty good.
Just collecting opinions!!
F1,
I'm curious to hear what you think about the design of the Griggs Racing Watts Link.
http://www.griggsracing.com/index.ph...14b6967028e7d5
Someone on another board comented that this was the best design out there. The price seems to be pretty good.
Just collecting opinions!!
I like a lot of the Griggs suspension parts, they are nice lightweight race parts. But being true race parts they are very poorly suited for street duty andrequire lots of regular inspections and maintenance that most street cars will never get. Griggs parts are also hard to getservice parts replacements for when they fail which they do regularlyand they are also not designed with any thought to the real world street use. SoGriggs uses rod ends for everythingwhich is not at all good for NVH (noise vibration and harshness) but good foreliminating compliance andprecise handling.
O.K. what do I think about the Griggs Watt's link?Hmm, first off theGriggs Watt's link price is deceiving because to make it work you alsoneed topurchase a specially modified Griggs TA diff cover which brings the total to about $1050. As usual for a racing piece the Griggs Watt's link uses no isolation at all in the Watt's link with rod-ends and fixed bearings through out the design so it will be noisy, harsh and transmit every vibration, bearing noise and diff gear whine into the car's cabin for you to deal with. The Griggs Watt's link places the center link on the diff cover which is not the ideal location as this means the rear axle roll center moves up and down with the axle not with the car as would be ideal. That said I'm not certain this is alarge disadvantage as I driven identical cars with the pivotfixed on both the diff and on the more conventional location the chassis and can't complain about it one way or the other.The center pivot of the Watt's link is short which I supposewas necessary to allowfor adjustable roll center on the diff which may not be ideal but seems to make little difference with the limited suspension travel a race car normally has. TheGriggs Watt's link arms are not parallel nor is there a provision to adjust them this way which is not as good handling as a Watt's link with parallel arms and verticalcenter pivot link. But these are all largelysmall distinctions.
IMO the best Watt's linkdesign for a street or race car isthe newSteeda piecegiven what I know and what I've seen of the design.You also get a company that will stand behind it and support it if and when it need parts down the road. The Saleen Watt's link is a simple design that foregoes an adjustableroll center height forproduction car useand to allow the part to work well for a long time with minimal maintainence. Saleen is also pretty good about supporting their cars.
HTH!
05-06-2008, 09:54 PM
#13
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: NEW Steeda Watts Link
You can keep it. Torque arms are hard to set pinion angle on, good strong torque arms are very heavy, torque arms kill your ground clearance, torque arms have less anti-squat which means they understeer more on corner exit. No thanks,torque arms are old, 3-link with Watt's link is better IMO.
HTH!
05-08-2008, 10:28 AM
#14
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 151
RE: NEW Steeda Watts Link
F1,
Thanks man! We can always count on you for the straight shot on things.
Side note : I talked to Steeda yesterday and they said availability would be in about 10 days and price would be in the $500 range. If that's true I know what I'll be spending money on during the off season.
Thanks man! We can always count on you for the straight shot on things.
Side note : I talked to Steeda yesterday and they said availability would be in about 10 days and price would be in the $500 range. If that's true I know what I'll be spending money on during the off season.
05-08-2008, 11:51 AM
#15
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 2,033
RE: NEW Steeda Watts Link
Wow.. Only $500? I might pick one of those up too.. I don't auto-X or anything, but I'm a handling junkie (last car was a 1997 Grand Prix - Eibach, Koni, etc etc - widetrak's handled well to begin with), and the straight-line-only aspect of this car kind of bothers me. I was considering the Fays2 Watts link, but like F1Fan said, this Steeda unit looks great, and for $500, it's well within to correct price range to make it competitive..
05-08-2008, 03:25 PM
#16
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: NEW Steeda Watts Link
ORIGINAL: Kobie
F1,
Thanks man! We can always count on you for the straight shot on things.
Side note : I talked to Steeda yesterday and they said availability would be in about 10 days and price would be in the $500 range. If that's true I know what I'll be spending money on during the off season.
F1,
Thanks man! We can always count on you for the straight shot on things.
Side note : I talked to Steeda yesterday and they said availability would be in about 10 days and price would be in the $500 range. If that's true I know what I'll be spending money on during the off season.
Thanks, I always try to be honest and to share the information I get back from folks I have contact with about suspension.
WOW! Only $500?No freaking way, that sounds WAY to low for a Steeda Watt's link! Incredible deal if the price turns out to be true as the Steeda Watt's link is really agood design made to appeal to street car owners. The addition of the reasonably but not overly isolated links was a stroke of genius. Can't hardly wait to hear the official price and have Steeda start shipping them out so I can install one in somebody's S197GTand test it against the Saleen PJ Watt's link in my car.
Amazing news, thanks!
HTH!
05-09-2008, 04:44 AM
#18
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Daytona Beach Fl
Posts: 145
RE: NEW Steeda Watts Link
This months issue of muscle mustangs & fast fords has an article on saleen's watts link.They didn't quote a price on though so I figure it'd be pretty pricey but, it is something to think about.
05-09-2008, 06:58 AM
#19
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location:
Posts: 58
RE: NEW Steeda Watts Link
so basically, teh watts link, and required accompaniments (like a differential cover) replace teh PHB and brace, right?
sway bar, and UCA/LCA needs are unchanged for a trackable, daily driver set up. right?
and obviously springs dampners needed still
thx
doc
sway bar, and UCA/LCA needs are unchanged for a trackable, daily driver set up. right?
and obviously springs dampners needed still
thx
doc
05-09-2008, 11:00 AM
#20
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Posts: 245
RE: NEW Steeda Watts Link
ORIGINAL: doc stang
so basically, teh watts link, and required accompaniments (like a differential cover) replace teh PHB and brace, right?
sway bar, and UCA/LCA needs are unchanged for a trackable, daily driver set up. right?
and obviously springs dampners needed still
thx
doc
so basically, teh watts link, and required accompaniments (like a differential cover) replace teh PHB and brace, right?
sway bar, and UCA/LCA needs are unchanged for a trackable, daily driver set up. right?
and obviously springs dampners needed still
thx
doc