Ok guys, I've been reading about suspension components, the pros and cons of each, etc. for almost a year. I've added a few pieces over time and after doing some Autox's and a track day, really want to do some upgrades. I'm becoming more and more serious about getting the stang on the track anytime I can recently and want to do some fairly serious upgrades. With Christmas coming up, I'm going to have some coin to spend. So with that said, I need some [more] knowledge.

I know that we give coilovers a lot of heat on these forums because it's way more than 99.9% of people will need. That said, I hate upgrading if it isn't the best I can get. I've really been looking at KW's coilovers. The Variant 3's look awesome, but are quite a bit more expensive than the Variant 1's. The 1's aren't a whole lot more expensive than shocks/struts, strut mounts, and springs would cost. So can you get better performance out of the Variant 1's than the basic Koni/spring upgrade? How hard are they to adjust and tune?

Also, I know H&R makes good coilovers, would it be worth going with them over KW?

The reason I'm asking is because I can get the Variant 1's for $1000 off, $500 plus shipping. If they aren't any more worth it than the basic run-of-the-mill list of upgrades, then I'll use that $1000 credit on exhaust, but Suspension is #1 on my list right now.

EDIT: I also remember someone mentioning that it isn't a good idea to put the load that coilovers do on the stock mounting points since they aren't designed to support that amount of force and that it's better to put some bracing on them. How much does it cost to do this bracing?

 

Hi Tex,

Although there are many other things you should concentrate on before moving to coilovers, I won't go into them. Since you asked specifically about coilovers, I'll pass along the small amount that I know:

Getting them set up correctly in order to get the most benefit is an art form, not something you'll be able to do on your own, so factor that into the cost. Take a read thru this thread on a separate forum: Corner Weighting. I'm thinking you probably know who Ernesto Roco is - mustang driver extraordinaire.

I'm pretty sure the KW variant I and the H&R are not adjustable for bump and rebound, a big disadvantage, you have to take what they give you. The variant III is adjustable, thus can be used with a variety of spring rates. FWIW - I met a guy with the H&R coilovers on his S197. He loved them and was freaking fast to boot.

They are easy to adjust, I've done it trackside on an E36 M3 with a buddy, but getting them correct is the hardpart, as noted above.

I wouldn't worry about the increased load, in fact I don't even understand that comment. Our stock front struts are "coil over" its just they aren't adjustable for height...so what is the difference in terms of load? In the rear - most of the coilover kits available are not true coilovers, i.e. the damper is separate from the spring, just like on stock. Its just that the spring has an adjustable perch. So again, where is the increase in load? The FR500S has true coilovers on the rear, same rear end as you have (although the car is caged and the cage supports are probably welded into the shock towers).

Personally - yes they'd be nice to have but there are lots of other things I believe are more important at the moment - roll bar, harness, seats, guages, oil cooler, a little more power, and of course the biggie - seat time/instruction.

 

Well my car is my DD and I actually put people in the back seat on a regular basis, so a roll cage is kinda out of the question. As far as seats... I hate cloth... they would have to be alcantara or leather and reclining race seats fully covered in alcantara or leather are usually at least $1000 a seat plus all of the mounting hardware, the bracket, and the slider. I can't afford to blow $2500+ on new seats. As far as harnesses, I don't know a way to make them work without seats and a harness bar. I'm going to order a CG Lock before my next event, and that will have to hold me over for a little while. For seat time and instruction, I do work/drives. I corner work one day and get to participate the next day as payment. For more power, I'll be doing exhaust soon. I'm really not that worried about power, I felt like I had plenty last time out, without having enough to get me into a lot of trouble.

The only reason I'm curious about the coilovers is because I have a $1K credit to a store that sells the KW V1's and V3's. But the only worthwhile springs they sell are Eibach Sportlines (too low) and Roush Springs (too high). The only dampers they carry are the Roush (no adjustability). I really want to do a suspension overhaul, but the only thing that looks promising are the coilovers. But if they are really that hard to set up... I don't know if I want to do them.

 

Tex-

I have to agree with everything that Argo has stated. I have very little driving experience on coilovers but I do know that if you are going to move to a coilover setup do NOT cheap out. Stay away from any Japanese made coilover kit, mostly for tuners, i.e Tien. Koni's best stuff isn't even sold on there website and its not even application specific, you have to fit it to your car. That said, I really do not now much about KW so I cannot say anything good or bad about there stuff. But I would suggest checking out either http://www.ground-control-store.com/index.php or http://www.vorshlag.com/ or even http://www.koniracing.com/index.cfm I have heard great things about Ground Control and about AST products. If you are serious about putting coils under your car take a look into the cost of a good set. All this stuff is out of my personal budget right now but if I was going to move my car onto a set of coilovers I would go this route.

 

Well the only reason I'm even considering the KW's is because in a thread I read a while back a couple of people (I think it might have been F1Fan and SamStrano, but can't remember) said that the KW Variant 3's are the best set you can buy for our cars without going custom because they use remote reservoirs. I'm really starting to think I'm just going to do my exhaust upgrades, brake upgrades, and try to get a harness that will work with my stock seat and go for the suspension goodies next time around after I've had more seat time. I think RodeoFlyer has some KW coilovers, I really want to hear what he thinks.

 

I sell KW and AST both. I also sell H&R and Eibach (both of whom has coil-over sets too). So if you want to talk about coil-overs, or brands of coil-overs vs. normal shocks and springs, we can. I can even compare and contrast various brands (as I've run most everything on some car or another over the years).

RodeoFlyer does have KW's, but they also aren't off the shelf from what I recall (at least revalved, and I think he might have changed rates too).

Suspension is much more important to making a car fast and predictable than exhaust. And you should NOT use a harness with a stock seat, unless you want to risk hurting yourself (or worse) if you happen to hit something. Stock seats can and do break, and cannot accept submarine belts. And you can't even begin to mount shoulder belts safely without a proper rollbar anyway.

 

I have the KW 3's. They do NOT have remote reservoirs. The quality and function are both great. They include strut mounts/camber plates, as well as tender springs. They look pretty sweet too. They knocked 30lbs off my car and with the setup advantage we picked up 2 seconds at California Speedway and a little over a second at both Buttonwillow and Willow Springs. KW actually used my car for engineering and is working on future projects for the S197. The V3's were designed using post rig data in Germany. They aren't just an educated guess as some other kits are.

I will say until I am blue in the face that they don't belong on a street car unless you **** dollars. It's not just the cost of the kit. It's the cost of another few sets of springs. It's the setup costs. If you don't have your own gear or access to a friends you will spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars with constant setup changes until you get it right. And then with different conditions or a different track it all changes AGAIN. This of course is assuming you or the shop you pay truly knows what you/they are doing to begin with. Unless you are competing it's just too much time and money.

If you just HAVE to spend money, do yourslf the favor and get quality stuff. If it's not at least double adjustable don't bother. Ground Control makes decent stuff, but it's only single adjustable. Their stuff is nice but the world agrees (myself included) that their customer service SUCKS. They're kinda rude and tend to be slow. Griggs' stuff is always nice but prcey, and once again only single adjustable (SLA is another story). For the price, SA isn't worth it IMO. Griggs' front coilover strut kit happens to look IDENTICAL to Ground Controls, who are practically down the street from each other......



Forget using a harness with a stock seat. That's a no-no. Harnesses only should be used with a proper seat and roll bar.

 

My understanding is that for your own safety you should not be allowed on the track with a seat mounted double shoulder harness or just a harness bar. This is because if the car rolls over you will be trapped in the upright position and as the roof gets crushed the effect on you is not good. With a regular shoulder harness and no roll cage if the car rolls you can lean sideways and get your body below the top of the doors.

 

I've seen people with harnesses mounted at the stock locations for the lap belt and then the anchors behind the back seats for the shoulders, is that a no-no? What would I need to add to safely mount harnesses? If I have to have aftermarket seats, I won't be able to it until probably next august. I'll go CG Lock for now I guess.

Sam, I know that suspension is WAY more important performance wise than exhaust. I just have a $1K credit to an online store that sells some parts for our cars. So the reason I've been so narrow brand-wise in this thread, is because I'm trying to only talk about what they carry. I could get the KW Variant 3's for $1200, but from the sound of it, I can't afford the setup (I'm in college). So at that same store, they carry exhaust I'm interested in, so I may go with that so I can get exactly what I want and pick and choose my suspension components piece by piece and not be limited by what that one place carries.

Looks like I'm back with the basic upgrade setup, but I'll be fine with that. Easy to install and adjust myself... probably more fun that way.

 

If the double shoulder harnesses prevent you from twisting your upper boy sideways to get your head below the level of the tops of the window sills then you are at a higher risk in a rollover. Granted the statistical prbability of a rollover is low but if it happens to you the percentage is 100%.

I'm using a CG Lock and even use it for daily driving. Great product and for the price can't be beat. Just make sure you use the correct of the three lengths of screws provided to get the clamping force high enough.