I guess some of you guys are expecting too much from Mr. Strano...

If you're not gonna build a car for the track, you're not gonna get the full potential of his knowledge because that's where he excels apparently, and even then, his suggested set up might not work for you anyhow.

For a car that remains a DD and say, do autoX on week ends, no one has the answer for YOUR best set up. Advices? Yes. Formula? No.
Also, as you get better at driving, your set up changes accordingly...

The other side of the argument is that M. Strano might come off as an "abrasive, Mr. know it all" to some of you... He might be, he might not, I bet you still can learn and that's the reward IMO.
I'll admit that I'm guilty of that sometimes in my own field. Not always easy (or worthy for us) to deal with someone that argues the answer you gave to his question on something he doesn't have a clue about (not directed to anyone here).
After all, if you knew, you wouldn't need to ask questions.

Lastly, nothing beats a real conversation man to man over typing on a Forum.
So everyone deserves a little more credit when trying to make a point here...

 

Thanks for that Pascal...I knew we were in good hands with you as our modder-ator!

 

Thanks and you're welcome.
I will say that you guys have rather been goods boys in this section.
Average age level is above 18, so that helps as well.

Seen a few jabs here and there but nothing I don't get myself into with members, so everything's OK in my book.

 

I'm not trying to stir the pot just for the sake of stirring it, but . . . just how close to $425 can the average guy without inside connections realistically bring this budget build in for?

Understand that I'm willing to do a little custom fitting, adapting, and other DIY work up to and including alignment. So I can appreciate that part of it. But not everybody has that sort of old-time hotrodder's outlook.


OP - I am curious about what further testing might reveal. Most times, this sort of tinkering involves compromises and while you may make gains with respect to some things, you will give up a little in others. On occasions where I've described not-quite-original-platform parts replacements I've mentioned things to be aware of. And sometimes, things to actively stay away from. So I'm sure that your combination has something or other about it that those who would copy it without change ought to know.

Some idea of what sort of roads and how hard the test drives were driven would be useful to know, although I doubt that any three people here will ever quite agree what any given word description is actually trying to describe. "Hard" cornering to you quite likely has different meaning for you than it does for me, and certainly for Sam - as one example. And the sensation of roll angle from the driver's seat is anything but accurate.

For the real budget builder (and you need to understand that I've been there, too), I'd really liked to have seen a description of the effect from just the dampers or dampers plus springs before muddying the water with contributions from the other components. It may sound like i'm echoing Sam here, but trust me when I tell you that I'm coming at this from an independent and slightly different direction.


Norm

 

Well Norm, to tell you the truth? Just about anyone could do this setup for what I spent. Only thing I had a lead on was the shocks, the GT500 struts were new take off that can be had on ebay for the price of a pair of Converse. All the rest of the goods were used. Only thing I skimmed on was buying used parts. So the reality of it is that anyone can do it for what I spent. There is always a deal out there for those who seek it.
As far as giving up something for getting something else? I can't really say there is a give and take. Maybe the OE off the lot 4x4 height, and cushy ride is gone? That's not what I want out of my car. I also didn't know this is the S197 Race Car Handling section. My car is a daily driver that has never been to the track, straight line or twistys. I do drive it hard and did want something that handled better, and felt better on the road.
In the end though, I never came in here and asked anyone for anything. I am just someone in the business who tried somethin out on MY car that I thought I would share with you all. I am not a salesman tryin to one up another salesman, nor a mechanic tryin to get one over on another mechanic. I am sure most on this forum are enthusiasts lookin to enhance their car in many ways. When they seek advice they ask, or some are kind enough to share what they know. I just tried to share what I know and was inept at it I guess. I am really thankful for the care and concern you have with my setup, it is almost overwhelming. I will let you know for sure if I start bouncin.... There was no butchery or mad retro fitting in this setup, only a couple spacers and 2 washers. For any of you thinking of trying this, for the rear shocks use this KYB p/n:554355, that is the "accurate" part for the S197.
In closing, this is my last post in this thread. There is many a ways to go about something. Giving advice for instance, why not say, "hey glad you like your setup (key word=YOU), I got a suggestion." I am not the type who automatically assumes I am right, nor am I critical on what people do. When I was younger, workin as a mechanic at a cool shop I was taught to suggest, or recommend things. Not say you need this or be hard up on what I know because I am a trained professional... And again, I ain't sellin anything here. It is just some parts I used that work good. At least the shocks weren't for a Geo Metro huh? Imagine? For those that have the bread, go ahead and get your matchin Tokicos, Bilsteins, or whatever. Hey at least I know who to ask now huh? Thanks fellas...

 

I'm not at all surprised by this. And frankly I have a hard time arguing with such a thought process.

Bottom line, this is all cost. And better is relative. I have been in a lot of cars that the owners were thought were kick ***--and I though sucked. Ask any kid in a Slammed Honda and I'm sure he'll tell you it handles like a race car! Give a White Castle burger to guy stranded on a island he'll think it's kick ***, until you give him a Wendy's burger--which would then be trumped by a Ribeye--and then a NY Strip. It's all relative and there are always those that think they have found the Holy Grail of perfect performance for no money. Good luck with that. I test a lot of stuff, and never has anyone been here and ridden in my cars and not left with changes (even if they weren't looking when they came).

To each his own. I do sell parts. If I'm looking for help to do something I seek out those that know how the products work, and that can supply me with a variety of things. I don't see that as a bad thing. I guess you do. There sure are slimy people out there... I guess you are just assuming I'm one.

Nobody said you had to lower the car, or anything of the sort. You did cobble together the setup, some might call it butchery. I just call it a mis-mash. You have OEM Ford front dampers which have more valving for the heavier engine, but are still OEM (and they never do as good a job as aftermarket because they just try and please the middle much like politicians). You used what are generally regarded as pretty bad rear shocks.... I just gave up on those, KYB's GR2's are better dampers than Gas-A-Justs's are. Then in the middle of your claims that I think you should have spend a lot more money (which isn't true), you spent money on things I don't think were necessary at all. I simply would have re-allocated the money you did spend on other things. If that makes me terrible, may lightning strike me right now.....

 

Thanks for your input. It's stuff like this that draw us to these forums. Right, wrong or indifferent it doesn't matter. Thanks for sharing your mods and suggestions with us.

 

Thanks for your input. It's stuff like this that draw us to these forums. Right, wrong or indifferent it doesn't matter. Thanks for sharing your mods and suggestions with us.

 

Thanks for your input. It's stuff like this that draw us to these forums. Right, wrong or indifferent it doesn't matter. Thanks for sharing your mods and suggestions with us.

 

It isn't, at least not in name. But the harder that you drive your car the closer you get to its being a race car (that you certainly would do race car tweaks and suspension tuning approaches/parts to). If you're getting into the 0.5 lateral g range or a little beyond, there is some sense in looking at the setups used at higher levels of cornering. Under 0.5 lateral - most any combination will work well enough.


Fair enough. But keep in mind that you've got to find new ways of offering the congratulations so that it doesn't come off as phony after a while. "Neat (whatever) . . . , but . . ." only works a few times.


Maybe it's the way some of us word our replies. Our experiences and backgrounds differ, so it's no surprise that your interpretations of the typed words differ from mine (or the way I intended them). Sam's differs from both of ours. I'll let you poke around in profiles and perhaps internet searches, as I'm not going to get drawn into a discussion of individual credentials.


Please do note anything you may notice about this build as you rack up a few miles (or a few thousand) on it. You never know where it might lead, or who might benefit. This is as good a place as any for it.


Norm