Hey brohams.. This is probably going to sound like a stoopid a$$ question to most of you guys who have a lot of experience with F/I, but I've heard so much negative crap from so many ppl here I'm begining to think I made a mistake going with the ProCharger I have..

The actual question is, given all the crap I've heard about how sh1tty the P1S/C-2 kits are, I was doing some research on possible upgrades to a twin screw set up like KB or Whipple. With centrifugals like the procharger I've 1.) heard that you can't push them past 12 psi without impeller failure (the first one I had actually had a bad head unit out of the box, but the factory replaced that on their dime with a re-tune so I can't complain there..), 2.) the 3-core set up on the stage-2 intercoolers procharger uses aren't exactly the most reliable as far as actual temp drops/longevity under boost, and 3.) that there is a wicked boost-lag, especially in the lower end of the powerband.. (Compounded by the fact that I've only had the friggin unit for four months and haven't even run the thing at a track yet... maybe I'm just listening too much? LOL )

ANYWAY, the KB or the Whipple.... IF I were to seriously consider an upgrade, for those of you guys that have run one or both or neither and just know more than I do, which one is the bang for the buck? I know they're both more expensive set ups than the one I've got so I'd have to save up, but I also don't want the head unit to go boom the first time I track it either..

What do you guys think?

Sorry for the off topic rant, but my nuts are kinda in a sling on this one here and I'm looking to get some second opinions.. [&:]

 

from what i understand KB and Whipple are both pretty much on par with eachother untill you really start turning the boost up then the KB shines

 

hmmm
well look at it this way:
most termi owners choose kb over whipple

but you cant just go off one car.....

 

hrrmm.. I've heard both, because I've seen some really bad a$$ whipple set ups, I just don't know what they were running PSI wise.. What's everybody think of the ProCharger though? Was it one of those "DUDE, what the ***** were you thinking??" things to go with the P1? What about performance? I mean, I've looked at the numbers on KB's website, and according to their line for the 2.1, percentage-wise, I got a better gain with the procharger, I'm just worried about reliability here..

 

From what I understand, both twin screw superchargers and centrifugal supercharges have their positives and negatives. Back in 2005 when I did my s/c, Vortech was the way to go. I heard nothing but bad things Prochargers - it wasn't even an option. Novi was also consider a great centri blower, but too big for what I wanted. KB didn't have a kit for my car at the time, so I went with the Vortech. I liked that you could drive it in a fashion where you never saw a bit of boost. But I also hated the fact that when I did want power, I had to really stand on it and rev up the engine. I also used to hear that a centri blower was better for the strip and that a twin screw was better for the street. But that could have just been Mustang Forum BS - there is never a shortage of that.

I am pretty much out of the loop when it comes to blowers these days. But I know enough to say that both KB and Whipple are great blowers. I also believe them to be quite expensive. And lastly, with the right centri blower, you can make a ton of boost. Just not with yours.

 

^^^ See that's what I'm attempting to do Bickety, is winnow out the the forum BS from the legitimate performance gripes against the procharger.. As far as lag, mine really starts hitting the boost a little after 4k in RPMs, so I don't have to completely stomp it, but I'd like to have the boost available across a wider spectrum of the powerband, as the street will probably be where the car is most of the time.. I've looked at both D1S/C and F1S/C units from procharger, and both have what looks to be a sizeable advantage over mine..


What about other twin screws? I know some like the roots type blowers, but I drove my cousin's 67 GT/CS that had the magnuson on it and I friggin hated that thing..

Starting to look like I made a rookie F/I mistake by buying procharger though.. [&o]

 

ive never really heard bad things about centis other than the power lag in the low rpms just like ur talkin about..I have/had a KB on my car and the power was def there whenever i wanted so no complaints about that.. they say the KB is hard to launch at the track cause of all the low end tq but i cut a 1.9 60ft with a little over 400rwhp and on sumitomos or whatever there called. also with the tq if i wanna race someone on the street then ill just get sticky tires but it is nice to be cruisin at about 30mph in 2nd gear and punch it and have the tires spin all the way to redline just to put on a little showoff of power.. also i have heard many people say with a centri that they wish they would have saved more for a KB but have never seen someone with a KB say they regret spending a little more and getting what they got.. i have the 2.1 and at 10psi with only boltons got 440rwhp and they say 14psi shound be around 500rwhp sorry it so long of a post but tryin to help ya out and cant go wrong with the whine/performance of a KB---i dont know anything about whipple thats why didnt mention them but sure they are pretty similar

 

Centrifugal blowers by their very design don't boost at low rpm. The volume of air they move(and thus the presure they generate) increases as a sqaure of the speed. You double the blower rpm you sqaure the volume moved. That's why they build max boost only at max rpm. They have a higher degree of thermal efficiency than a twin screw does, so generally speaking, for the same amount of boost the centri will make more power in the upper portion of the rpm range than a screw, but the screw by far produces more bottom end torque since they start boosting almost right off idle. Screws could be considered "better" for the street, in that at low rpm and part throttle they still make some boost(boost is primarily determined by throttle position, max boost at max throttle, half boost at half throttle etc, once the blower is past it's low speed leakdown point, usually 2,000-2,500rpm, the more the blower is overdriven the lower the leakdown point becomes), so even just driving around town the car will be much more peppy. I like screw/roots blowers for small displacement street engines for the extra bottom end torque they can make which is nice for regular driving, plus it makes a small engine perform like a big engine, but still gets the small engine mileage. Centri is good for a street car that already has enough bottom end torque that traction is a problem, since they build boost progressively and only at higher rpm they may help in a car with limited traction. Centris produce a much more "peaky" powerband, screw/roots are pretty flat. Centris can also run with more boost than screw/roots for the same compression, since they don't start making a lot of boost till after cylinder pressure normally peaks, they increase boost pressure as cylinder pressure is trying to drop off, screws/roots run max boost straight through the peak cylinder pressure point, so they'll detonate before a centri will.

 

Both of you guys have very good points.. Honestly the Mach already has good bottom end torque I think, although some might think it a little lacking.. so I suppose centri would probably be a good place to stay for the time being as far as type. Though what about brand? My only quaff about replacing unit I've got is that I don't know if that would mean I'd have to replace the entire kit, or just the head unit? I.E. does anybody know if a D1 or F1 will use the same diameter piping, injectors, etc.. that the P1 does depending on boost? I don't think I'll ever want to run more than 18-20 Psi, if that, as I'm shooting for about 600 RWHP and I'm at 448-ish right now with a moderate tune pushing 8-psi...

The only thing that scares me about the screw-types is that with all that power bottom end I'd sit there spinning all the way into 3rd gear.. lol I had to work long enough to get my launches down when it was stock.. Guess I'm still a little torn.. LOL I don't want to sit there spinning, but I also don't want the head unit or the intercooler to go boom either..

 

I had no idea that the stock Mach engine could handle that kind of boost/power. Wow. Gotta love the Machs.