Cobra or GT
05-17-2008, 03:44 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 16
Cobra or GT
Hey there,
I currently own a 6cyl 2002 Mustang, which has been pretty reliable. That's led me to buy a 2000 Vert GT for my son, mainly for the noise and wow factor, but also because the 8's are supposed to be more reliable then the 6's.
So after spending a lot of time on these forums, I've kinda grown fond of the Mustang family of cars. Enough so that I've begun to contemplate a project car of my own. Let me describe what I'm after, then you can tell me if I should go Cobra base or GT base.
I'd like a tight handling vehicle which can compete successfully with an older model M3. Which, frankly, I'm not sure the Mustang is capable of, however in looking at a variety of websites there appear to be quite a few after market suspension kits which can change the entire handling characteristics of the basic car.
So the first question is is it better to start with the IRS in the Cobra, or will the gains from the after market suspension eliminate the need for the more expensive vehicle purchase?
Second question is about the engine choices. I guess the Terminator would be first choice of most for the engine, however if a FI 4.6 2v can make 400rwhp and still be a daily driver, is the extra money for the Termie worth it? This car will be a "track" car, not a strip car so ultimate hp won't be a consideration. 400 at the wheels will scare the hell out of most folks, including this driver.
Third question, which probably should have been first, is can the Mustang compete successfully as a track car (I won't be tracking it, just using it to **** off the snobs) with a stock beemer? Or should I be looking at another vehicle altogether? I'm guessing you can mod the beemer to a higher level of performance, and it won't have the weight penalty the Mustang has, however the costs to buy into that level of performance seem prohibitive. And by beemer, I mean the M3-M5 variety. Although if the Mustang can hang with the new 335's that would be a plus.
Thanks in advance, and any thoughts would be welcome.
I currently own a 6cyl 2002 Mustang, which has been pretty reliable. That's led me to buy a 2000 Vert GT for my son, mainly for the noise and wow factor, but also because the 8's are supposed to be more reliable then the 6's.
So after spending a lot of time on these forums, I've kinda grown fond of the Mustang family of cars. Enough so that I've begun to contemplate a project car of my own. Let me describe what I'm after, then you can tell me if I should go Cobra base or GT base.
I'd like a tight handling vehicle which can compete successfully with an older model M3. Which, frankly, I'm not sure the Mustang is capable of, however in looking at a variety of websites there appear to be quite a few after market suspension kits which can change the entire handling characteristics of the basic car.
So the first question is is it better to start with the IRS in the Cobra, or will the gains from the after market suspension eliminate the need for the more expensive vehicle purchase?
Second question is about the engine choices. I guess the Terminator would be first choice of most for the engine, however if a FI 4.6 2v can make 400rwhp and still be a daily driver, is the extra money for the Termie worth it? This car will be a "track" car, not a strip car so ultimate hp won't be a consideration. 400 at the wheels will scare the hell out of most folks, including this driver.
Third question, which probably should have been first, is can the Mustang compete successfully as a track car (I won't be tracking it, just using it to **** off the snobs) with a stock beemer? Or should I be looking at another vehicle altogether? I'm guessing you can mod the beemer to a higher level of performance, and it won't have the weight penalty the Mustang has, however the costs to buy into that level of performance seem prohibitive. And by beemer, I mean the M3-M5 variety. Although if the Mustang can hang with the new 335's that would be a plus.
Thanks in advance, and any thoughts would be welcome.
05-17-2008, 06:46 PM
#2
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,893
RE: Cobra or GT
There are certain things that you can do - im not sure what your goals are... I mean I had a 500+rwhp Terminator and it drove nice and smooth and got 200-230miles per tank of gas... but if $$ is factor, i'd get a shell and just build it up the way you want it to... I have read a lot of things where the IRS outperforms the SRA when both are fully built.. and that's that.. but the IRS weighs it down a lot..
Have you ever entertained a mach 1? Has the 4.6 DOHC motor with a forged crank, but with the 8.8 and it's lighter... You could run 450rwhp with the 4v torque... and always do a IRS swap, or build the rear axle...
Have you ever entertained a mach 1? Has the 4.6 DOHC motor with a forged crank, but with the 8.8 and it's lighter... You could run 450rwhp with the 4v torque... and always do a IRS swap, or build the rear axle...
05-18-2008, 10:03 PM
#4
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 301
RE: Cobra or GT
I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking is there a way to get a Cobra to handle as well as an M3? If so, yes. IRS or solid axle cars can both be setup to handle well. As far as horse power goes, the power to weight ratio of a Cobra can easily surpass that of the M3. I think your knowledge of performance based mustangs is a little lacking. There are plenty of mustangs out there that will run circles around an M3. I'm not sure what year models you're considering, but the 96-98 Cobras are cheap and since you're planning on building it, a low initial investment would be nice. Do some more research on what isavailable for these cars and you will find that you can make them competitive in almost any class of racing. No matter what type of racing it is, I would always start with a Cobra.
05-18-2008, 10:22 PM
#5
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,893
RE: Cobra or GT
Besides price/body style.. There is no other reason to buy that over a mach 1.. the mach 1 is a better all around car then the sn95 Cobra... the only reason to buy a new edge Cobra (minus Terminator) over a Mach is if you want the IRS...
ORIGINAL: jlg32281
I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking is there a way to get a Cobra to handle as well as an M3? If so, yes. IRS or solid axle cars can both be setup to handle well. As far as horse power goes, the power to weight ratio of a Cobra can easily surpass that of the M3. I think your knowledge of performance based mustangs is a little lacking. There are plenty of mustangs out there that will run circles around an M3. I'm not sure what year models you're considering, but the 96-98 Cobras are cheap and since you're planning on building it, a low initial investment would be nice. Do some more research on what isavailable for these cars and you will find that you can make them competitive in almost any class of racing. No matter what type of racing it is, I would always start with a Cobra.
I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking is there a way to get a Cobra to handle as well as an M3? If so, yes. IRS or solid axle cars can both be setup to handle well. As far as horse power goes, the power to weight ratio of a Cobra can easily surpass that of the M3. I think your knowledge of performance based mustangs is a little lacking. There are plenty of mustangs out there that will run circles around an M3. I'm not sure what year models you're considering, but the 96-98 Cobras are cheap and since you're planning on building it, a low initial investment would be nice. Do some more research on what isavailable for these cars and you will find that you can make them competitive in almost any class of racing. No matter what type of racing it is, I would always start with a Cobra.
05-18-2008, 11:09 PM
#6
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: DC
Posts: 66
RE: Cobra or GT
I would definitely go with a Termie, but would prefer a newer GT to an older model Cobra. What year GT where you thinking of?
As for racing against an 335, I raced an 08 335i and it was a close one, I beat it with have a car-length with my 03 GT. I work for BMW (I test drive the cars) and I could get one for myself with an employee discount, but I love my stang and my previous car was a 5-series which was in the shop way too many times for my wallet. Maintaining the BMWs is no fun. I can say, though, that BMWs performance & handling + comfort are far superior than the Mustang's hence the price difference. But stangs are easier and cheaper to mod and can compete with BMWs performance & handling-wise when WELL-modded but cannot compete with them in ride comfort IMHO. And btw, modding an M3, M5 or M6 is going to be pricy and I dont really see a point in doing so, even stock they're ridiculous, especially the 06+ ones. What year M3 were you reffering to? An E30, E36, or an E46?If I had the big bucks and could afford a brand new M3/M5/M6 I would go with one, but since I dont have that kind of money I'll stick with the stang and I have no regrets doing so (I have a lot of plans for mine).
However, if you're really looking into getting a BMW and live in the DMV (DC/Maryland/Virginia) area, we'll be more than happy to get you in a car at BMW of Sterling.
As for racing against an 335, I raced an 08 335i and it was a close one, I beat it with have a car-length with my 03 GT. I work for BMW (I test drive the cars) and I could get one for myself with an employee discount, but I love my stang and my previous car was a 5-series which was in the shop way too many times for my wallet. Maintaining the BMWs is no fun. I can say, though, that BMWs performance & handling + comfort are far superior than the Mustang's hence the price difference. But stangs are easier and cheaper to mod and can compete with BMWs performance & handling-wise when WELL-modded but cannot compete with them in ride comfort IMHO. And btw, modding an M3, M5 or M6 is going to be pricy and I dont really see a point in doing so, even stock they're ridiculous, especially the 06+ ones. What year M3 were you reffering to? An E30, E36, or an E46?If I had the big bucks and could afford a brand new M3/M5/M6 I would go with one, but since I dont have that kind of money I'll stick with the stang and I have no regrets doing so (I have a lot of plans for mine).
However, if you're really looking into getting a BMW and live in the DMV (DC/Maryland/Virginia) area, we'll be more than happy to get you in a car at BMW of Sterling.
05-19-2008, 09:57 AM
#7
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 301
RE: Cobra or GT
My uncle who is a very wise man and the owner of 3 luxury import shops in New Orleans, says: Don't ever own a european car that isn't under warranty. They're really nice and perform well, but they're unreliable and expensive to fix. The comfort is unmatched if you can afford it. But once the warranty is gone, so is your money. My uncle owns several european cars 1Bentley, 1Mercedes, 2BMW's. And as soon as the warranties run out, he trades them in.(yes he has more money than I can ever imagine having).
So, what I'm trying to say is that if you're rich, get a BMW and mod it. If you're like most of us, a mustang is a great car to build at an affordable price. 96-98 Cobras go as low as 5k, so in theory, you could buy one for let's say 6k. Rebuild the engine with forged parts and turbo it or put a super charger on it for around 8-9k, T-56 swap for 2k and then do 3k of suspension upgrades. So for a grand total of 20K you can have a car that I think would be very competitive. Now if you want a Mach, then tack on about 5-6k. I think the mods could be done a cheaper if you do it yourself and buy used parts.
So, what I'm trying to say is that if you're rich, get a BMW and mod it. If you're like most of us, a mustang is a great car to build at an affordable price. 96-98 Cobras go as low as 5k, so in theory, you could buy one for let's say 6k. Rebuild the engine with forged parts and turbo it or put a super charger on it for around 8-9k, T-56 swap for 2k and then do 3k of suspension upgrades. So for a grand total of 20K you can have a car that I think would be very competitive. Now if you want a Mach, then tack on about 5-6k. I think the mods could be done a cheaper if you do it yourself and buy used parts.
05-19-2008, 10:17 AM
#8
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,893
RE: Cobra or GT
It still really depends on what you're looking for...
The most power = Terminator Cobra (03-04 Cobra) (IRS)
2nd most power = Mach 1 (8.8 rear axle)
3rd best = Cobra (96-01) (96-98 had 8.8 rear axle -- 99-01 had IRS)
worst = GT (8.8 real axle)
The only reason I would ever get a 96-01 Cobra over a Mach 1 would be if you wanted to have the IRS come on it (99-01 Cobras), or if you just liked that SN95 Body style THAT much...
The most power = Terminator Cobra (03-04 Cobra) (IRS)
2nd most power = Mach 1 (8.8 rear axle)
3rd best = Cobra (96-01) (96-98 had 8.8 rear axle -- 99-01 had IRS)
worst = GT (8.8 real axle)
The only reason I would ever get a 96-01 Cobra over a Mach 1 would be if you wanted to have the IRS come on it (99-01 Cobras), or if you just liked that SN95 Body style THAT much...
05-19-2008, 10:37 AM
#9
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 301
RE: Cobra or GT
I agree the Mach is a better car, but I don't think they're worth the price difference. If you take the price difference between the 96-98 Cobra and Mach and add that money to mod money, then for the same price, you can have a well modded 96-98 Cobra for the price of a Mach. I only make this argument since money is my biggest factor when buying cars and modding them. For someone else, my theory might not apply. Buy whatever you want and don't waste your time with GT. Cobra's and Mach's are both great platforms to build. Keep us posted on what you decide to go with.
05-19-2008, 02:56 PM
#10
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 254
RE: Cobra or GT
I own a 98 and 03 cobra
bang for the buck is the 03 by far very little mods gets you 450+rwhp( LT hearders,mid pipe,2.8 pulley,bigger throttle body, maf, cold air intake) the irs is way better handling (i like it better) I can take on ramps way faster in the stock 03 than in the 98 stock the rear end on the solid axle car feels old school (which is cool feeling) but the irs is way better. I feel that the solid axle hooks up better of the line(if you want to drag race)
The choice is the 03 or 04 cobra
be wear 96-98 2v or 4v motors the bottom ends are weak and spin bearings with very low miles I had to replace the 4v motor in my 98 with only 54k miles on it $4170 for the engine from ford and half the power of the 03
dont waste your $$ buy the 03 take it to the track it is a awesome car
You will spend alot more $$ is the long run if you buy a sn95 body cobra than a 03 and it still wont be as good. Buy it drive it.
400rwhp n/a out of a sn95 32 valve cobra would be alot of money, mine has 700 miles on the motor under drive pulleys, jba headers , cold air intake and it feels like maybe 260-270hp to the ground I have not dyno ed it. The 03 will walk around it like it is standing still
03-04 cobra dont be dumb! no solid axle unless you are drag racing
bang for the buck is the 03 by far very little mods gets you 450+rwhp( LT hearders,mid pipe,2.8 pulley,bigger throttle body, maf, cold air intake) the irs is way better handling (i like it better) I can take on ramps way faster in the stock 03 than in the 98 stock the rear end on the solid axle car feels old school (which is cool feeling) but the irs is way better. I feel that the solid axle hooks up better of the line(if you want to drag race)
The choice is the 03 or 04 cobra
be wear 96-98 2v or 4v motors the bottom ends are weak and spin bearings with very low miles I had to replace the 4v motor in my 98 with only 54k miles on it $4170 for the engine from ford and half the power of the 03
dont waste your $$ buy the 03 take it to the track it is a awesome car
You will spend alot more $$ is the long run if you buy a sn95 body cobra than a 03 and it still wont be as good. Buy it drive it.
400rwhp n/a out of a sn95 32 valve cobra would be alot of money, mine has 700 miles on the motor under drive pulleys, jba headers , cold air intake and it feels like maybe 260-270hp to the ground I have not dyno ed it. The 03 will walk around it like it is standing still
03-04 cobra dont be dumb! no solid axle unless you are drag racing