Power steering and coolant flush write-up.
Thread Starter
1st Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
From: nm
Power steering and coolant flush write-up.
I am looking for write-ups on changing out the power steering fluid and coolant. Can I use the gold coolant. I heard that was good for 5 years or 100,000 miles. It currently has the green collant in it. Looks like this is a good site. Thanks
2001 Mustang v6 auto
2001 Mustang v6 auto
Thread Starter
1st Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
From: nm
This is the coolant procedure I used on my truck. Would this work for the car as well? Obviously the fluid capacity would be different.
1) Buy 4 gallons of Ford Premium Gold coolant at dealer. Check SCA levels after 50 k range around 1.4 - 3.0. Stronger SCA levels are harder on the water pump. Dieselmanor sells pack of 4 fleetguard test strips to test SCA levels.
2) Buy 18 gallons of distilled water at local grocery store.
3) Drop lower radiator hose until empty or use drain valve
4) Reconnect hose & clamp and add distilled water to degas bottle until full (3 - 3-1/2 gallons of water).
5) Drive truck until temp guage goes to normal and thermostat opens.
6) Repeat steps #3 through #5 no less than 4 -6 times (depends on distilled water amaount used) - I can't remember, but distilled water is less than .99/gallon?
7) You now have 100% distilled water in you system.
8) Drop lower radiator hose 1 last time, drain and reconnect.
9) Look in manual for your system capacity and for a 50/50% refill of coolant just add the coolant straight into your degas bottle up to the amount that equals a 50/50% concentration. (For my 2003, it was 3.5 gallons of coolant.)
10) Start motor and add distilled water to bring system level to the MIN mark on degas bottle (do not add coolant as you already added 50% of the total capacity of the cooling system).
11) Drive truck around to open thermostat and let cool once or twice to purge any air. May need to add more distilled water (not coolant)... but when done you have flushed your entire system and have a perfect 50/50% concentration of coolant and distilled water!!!!
1) Buy 4 gallons of Ford Premium Gold coolant at dealer. Check SCA levels after 50 k range around 1.4 - 3.0. Stronger SCA levels are harder on the water pump. Dieselmanor sells pack of 4 fleetguard test strips to test SCA levels.
2) Buy 18 gallons of distilled water at local grocery store.
3) Drop lower radiator hose until empty or use drain valve
4) Reconnect hose & clamp and add distilled water to degas bottle until full (3 - 3-1/2 gallons of water).
5) Drive truck until temp guage goes to normal and thermostat opens.
6) Repeat steps #3 through #5 no less than 4 -6 times (depends on distilled water amaount used) - I can't remember, but distilled water is less than .99/gallon?
7) You now have 100% distilled water in you system.
8) Drop lower radiator hose 1 last time, drain and reconnect.
9) Look in manual for your system capacity and for a 50/50% refill of coolant just add the coolant straight into your degas bottle up to the amount that equals a 50/50% concentration. (For my 2003, it was 3.5 gallons of coolant.)
10) Start motor and add distilled water to bring system level to the MIN mark on degas bottle (do not add coolant as you already added 50% of the total capacity of the cooling system).
11) Drive truck around to open thermostat and let cool once or twice to purge any air. May need to add more distilled water (not coolant)... but when done you have flushed your entire system and have a perfect 50/50% concentration of coolant and distilled water!!!!
Reverse Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,130
From: Baton Rouge, LA
We don't have a deges bottle, just a regular overflow resevoir. There is a bleeder bolt on top of the coolant bypass above the water pump, you use that to bleed the system, don't rely on the overflow bottle to do it.
Thread Starter
1st Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
From: nm
Thanks for the help.
Reverse Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,130
From: Baton Rouge, LA
power steering is pretty easy, just takes a LOT of patience and a decent amount of time.
For bleeding the cooling system, I use premix 50/50, takes a little more but it's a bit easier. My sytem is completely different from a stock setup though, so my process is a little more involved.
For bleeding the cooling system, I use premix 50/50, takes a little more but it's a bit easier. My sytem is completely different from a stock setup though, so my process is a little more involved.
If you take your car to a shop for a routine oil change you have a high probability of being told your car needs one or more of its critical fluids flushed, changed or serviced. This started originally at the quick-lube shops and spread to the whole auto repair industry, including the dealers.
Part of the reason is technology. New machines have made it possible in most cases to change the fluids quickly and easily, or so the sellers of the machines say. But the real driving force is profitability.
Today I'm changing a timing belt and water pump on a Dodge Caravan. It will take all of five hours of bay time, a lot of parts and a lot of potential liability. In half the time I could do a series of flushes with little effort or liability and make much more profit. Since most people, mechanics and shop owners included, respond to economic incentives, it is coming to pass that every car going to every shop needs every fluid flushed every day.
In short, what is really being flushed is your wallet. It is straining the credibility of an industry that rightly or wrongly has always had credibility problems.
The Four Flushes
Old-timers from the '50s, '60s and '70s always knew it was a good idea to periodically drain the radiator, put a bottle of flush chemical and water in, run it a half-hour then wash it out again with plain water before refilling it with the proper mix of antifreeze and distilled water. Or if you wanted to do a really nice job you could cut one of those plastic flush tees from a Prestone flush kit into the heater hose, allowing you to hook a garden hose up and run a continuous flush.
Now these old-timers are being told their transmission fluid, power steering fluid, and who knows what else must be flushed on a yearly, monthly, or even daily regimen. Strangely, their '77 Olds Cutlass managed to run 180,000 miles without all this attention.
Now don't get me wrong. I am in favor of changing most fluids at 30, 60, and 90,000-mile intervals, regardless of what the owner's manual says. But that is not what's happening. These services are being oversold to a degree that is bound to damage the reputation of our industry to the net result that consumers will not believe any of us, even when we are telling the truth.
The Rundown
Let's start with the automatic transmission -- the most frequently flushed fluid besides the radiator. The advent of the transmission fluid exchange machine was a great step. In the past, automatic transmission fluid could only be changed by removing the transmission oil pan, which only holds three to six of the eight to 10 quarts in the transmission. The second you started the car, the new fluid mixed with the old, eliminating much of the benefit of the service.
The fluid exchange machine, which some people choose to call a flush machine, cuts into the transmission cooler line at the radiator. As the car runs, old fluid goes out into the waste tank while new fluid is simultaneously pumped in. If the shop is really thorough, the car is lifted and actually driven through all the gears while the exchange is taking place. And if the service is done properly, the transmission oil pan still has to be removed and cleaned and the filter replaced -- a solid hour and a half of work. So if a quick-lube shop is offering it to you in 35 minutes, something's not being done.
Now, as to checking the dipstick for color or smell to determine if your fluid needs to be changed: At the extremes (not changed for 100,000 miles or changed yesterday), you can tell. But as far as whether it was changed 3,000 miles ago or 20,000 miles ago, no one can know, and if they say they can, they are lying.
Power steering fluid in general is not listed in most maintenance schedules as needing periodic replacement, although there are some exceptions. But we have a machine for that now too, so expect to be told you need your power steering fluid flushed. Look, if every three to five years (45,000 to 60,000 miles) you change your power steering fluid, that's not a bad idea. And replacing it with synthetic fluid, if allowable, is even better. But you certainly don't need to do it yearly or even every two years.
Brake fluid lives in a sealed environment because exposure to moisture will ruin it. No one ever dreamed of messing with it until Hondas became popular, and Honda for some reason does call for brake fluid replacement. Now we have (you guessed it), a brake fluid flush machine. If your factory manual calls for it, by all means, change your brake fluid. Other than that, leave it alone unless you are having brake repairs done, in which case changing it may not only make sense but be necessary if the hydraulic system has been compromised.
It is not enough that you are changing your oil every 3,000 miles. Now when you go for your oil change they want to hook up a motor flush machine to clean your oil system out. Strange, my '63 Valiant didn't need that. Look, this goes under the category "If you need it, it won't help" -- and thus sales are being encouraged on vehicles that really don't need it. If an oil system is dirty enough to have deposits of sludge forming, you're only going to get the sludge out by removing the valve covers and oil pan and scraping it out. Any stirring up of the stuff without removing it is likely to do more harm than good.
Stocking Stuffers
I had an oil-change guy who lasted about a month. Every time a truck or sport-utility vehicle came in (the only vehicles left with a classic differential), he would call me over, waving his finger at me after having dipped it in the differential oil, saying "it needs a differential service," as if he who barely knew how to open a hood would know. Evidently it was a service heavily pushed at his last place of employ.
On a military 6x6 doing heavy duty in Iraq, differential oil needs constant attention. On a domestic SUV whose only off-road experience is driving onto the grass at the soccer field, just follow the owner's manual or change the fluid every 60,000 miles. The exception would be if you tow things or if you submerge the differential by backing a boat into the water.
Oh, and the transfer case fluid need only be changed at the required mileage or 60,000 miles.
Avoid the Wallet Flush
The easiest way to avoid having your wallet flushed is to try to stay with one shop that you trust, and keep good records. Now I know that even my best customers occasionally go elsewhere for an oil change when my shop is not convenient. So if you find yourself in a strange shop being told that the very lives of your children depend on your getting a particular service at that moment, just walk away.
Well, actually, that would be a tough one. But a new customer is often viewed as fresh meat, since all their existing customers have been flushed into the next galaxy. The harder the sell, the more you must resist. And believe me, the sell can be pretty rough. They can come at you with test tubes of fluid samples, and with pH strips whose color change indicates you are seconds from disaster (all provided by the flush machine manufacturers). Even my sister-in-law, whose toughness and command of Arabic swear words sent Egyptian border guards scurrying for cover, succumbed once.
And to the people in my industry, the owners and shop managers, I say, "What is it going to take? Another '60 Minutes' or 'Nightline' exposé where they go shop to shop and find out how many flushes they need after chemically certifying the fluids as new? Do you know how tough business is gonna be after that happens? Try thinking a little farther ahead than next week's bonus check."
Doug Flint owns and operates Tune-Up Technology, a garage in Alexandria, Va.
Part of the reason is technology. New machines have made it possible in most cases to change the fluids quickly and easily, or so the sellers of the machines say. But the real driving force is profitability.
Today I'm changing a timing belt and water pump on a Dodge Caravan. It will take all of five hours of bay time, a lot of parts and a lot of potential liability. In half the time I could do a series of flushes with little effort or liability and make much more profit. Since most people, mechanics and shop owners included, respond to economic incentives, it is coming to pass that every car going to every shop needs every fluid flushed every day.
In short, what is really being flushed is your wallet. It is straining the credibility of an industry that rightly or wrongly has always had credibility problems.
The Four Flushes
Old-timers from the '50s, '60s and '70s always knew it was a good idea to periodically drain the radiator, put a bottle of flush chemical and water in, run it a half-hour then wash it out again with plain water before refilling it with the proper mix of antifreeze and distilled water. Or if you wanted to do a really nice job you could cut one of those plastic flush tees from a Prestone flush kit into the heater hose, allowing you to hook a garden hose up and run a continuous flush.
Now these old-timers are being told their transmission fluid, power steering fluid, and who knows what else must be flushed on a yearly, monthly, or even daily regimen. Strangely, their '77 Olds Cutlass managed to run 180,000 miles without all this attention.
Now don't get me wrong. I am in favor of changing most fluids at 30, 60, and 90,000-mile intervals, regardless of what the owner's manual says. But that is not what's happening. These services are being oversold to a degree that is bound to damage the reputation of our industry to the net result that consumers will not believe any of us, even when we are telling the truth.
The Rundown
Let's start with the automatic transmission -- the most frequently flushed fluid besides the radiator. The advent of the transmission fluid exchange machine was a great step. In the past, automatic transmission fluid could only be changed by removing the transmission oil pan, which only holds three to six of the eight to 10 quarts in the transmission. The second you started the car, the new fluid mixed with the old, eliminating much of the benefit of the service.
The fluid exchange machine, which some people choose to call a flush machine, cuts into the transmission cooler line at the radiator. As the car runs, old fluid goes out into the waste tank while new fluid is simultaneously pumped in. If the shop is really thorough, the car is lifted and actually driven through all the gears while the exchange is taking place. And if the service is done properly, the transmission oil pan still has to be removed and cleaned and the filter replaced -- a solid hour and a half of work. So if a quick-lube shop is offering it to you in 35 minutes, something's not being done.
Now, as to checking the dipstick for color or smell to determine if your fluid needs to be changed: At the extremes (not changed for 100,000 miles or changed yesterday), you can tell. But as far as whether it was changed 3,000 miles ago or 20,000 miles ago, no one can know, and if they say they can, they are lying.
Power steering fluid in general is not listed in most maintenance schedules as needing periodic replacement, although there are some exceptions. But we have a machine for that now too, so expect to be told you need your power steering fluid flushed. Look, if every three to five years (45,000 to 60,000 miles) you change your power steering fluid, that's not a bad idea. And replacing it with synthetic fluid, if allowable, is even better. But you certainly don't need to do it yearly or even every two years.
Brake fluid lives in a sealed environment because exposure to moisture will ruin it. No one ever dreamed of messing with it until Hondas became popular, and Honda for some reason does call for brake fluid replacement. Now we have (you guessed it), a brake fluid flush machine. If your factory manual calls for it, by all means, change your brake fluid. Other than that, leave it alone unless you are having brake repairs done, in which case changing it may not only make sense but be necessary if the hydraulic system has been compromised.
It is not enough that you are changing your oil every 3,000 miles. Now when you go for your oil change they want to hook up a motor flush machine to clean your oil system out. Strange, my '63 Valiant didn't need that. Look, this goes under the category "If you need it, it won't help" -- and thus sales are being encouraged on vehicles that really don't need it. If an oil system is dirty enough to have deposits of sludge forming, you're only going to get the sludge out by removing the valve covers and oil pan and scraping it out. Any stirring up of the stuff without removing it is likely to do more harm than good.
Stocking Stuffers
I had an oil-change guy who lasted about a month. Every time a truck or sport-utility vehicle came in (the only vehicles left with a classic differential), he would call me over, waving his finger at me after having dipped it in the differential oil, saying "it needs a differential service," as if he who barely knew how to open a hood would know. Evidently it was a service heavily pushed at his last place of employ.
On a military 6x6 doing heavy duty in Iraq, differential oil needs constant attention. On a domestic SUV whose only off-road experience is driving onto the grass at the soccer field, just follow the owner's manual or change the fluid every 60,000 miles. The exception would be if you tow things or if you submerge the differential by backing a boat into the water.
Oh, and the transfer case fluid need only be changed at the required mileage or 60,000 miles.
Avoid the Wallet Flush
The easiest way to avoid having your wallet flushed is to try to stay with one shop that you trust, and keep good records. Now I know that even my best customers occasionally go elsewhere for an oil change when my shop is not convenient. So if you find yourself in a strange shop being told that the very lives of your children depend on your getting a particular service at that moment, just walk away.
Well, actually, that would be a tough one. But a new customer is often viewed as fresh meat, since all their existing customers have been flushed into the next galaxy. The harder the sell, the more you must resist. And believe me, the sell can be pretty rough. They can come at you with test tubes of fluid samples, and with pH strips whose color change indicates you are seconds from disaster (all provided by the flush machine manufacturers). Even my sister-in-law, whose toughness and command of Arabic swear words sent Egyptian border guards scurrying for cover, succumbed once.
And to the people in my industry, the owners and shop managers, I say, "What is it going to take? Another '60 Minutes' or 'Nightline' exposé where they go shop to shop and find out how many flushes they need after chemically certifying the fluids as new? Do you know how tough business is gonna be after that happens? Try thinking a little farther ahead than next week's bonus check."
Doug Flint owns and operates Tune-Up Technology, a garage in Alexandria, Va.
Last edited by RyansQuick6; Jul 14, 2010 at 02:49 AM.
Thread Starter
1st Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 119
From: nm
Got the power steering done. I just did repeated drains on the low pressure side by disconnecting the hose under under the car: http://s481.photobucket.com/albums/r...t=IM004935.jpg
I use two quarts of mobile 1 syn atf.
Each time you drain, you get about 1/3 quart out. I repeated this 5-6 times until the fluid was nice and clean. I drove the car a couple of miles between each drain to mix up the atf. I did notice my steering was a little smoother and that the pump got quieter after each drain/fill.
I did get ahold of a ford service cd and had the Cooling System Draining, Filling and Bleeding for my 2001 v6. Here it is for future reference:
Cooling System Draining, Filling and Bleeding
Material
Item
Specification
Motorcraft Premium Engine Coolant
VC-4-A (in Oregon VC-5, in Canada CXC-10) or equivalent
ESE-M97B44-A
*
Draining
*WARNING: Never remove the pressure relief cap while the engine is operating or when the cooling system is hot. Failure to follow these instructions can result in damage to the cooling system or engine or personal injury. To avoid having scalding hot coolant or steam blow out of the degas bottle when removing the pressure relief cap, wait until the engine has cooled, then wrap a thick cloth around the pressure relief cap and turn it slowly. Step back while the pressure is released from the cooling system. When you are sure all the pressure has been released, turn and remove the pressure relief cap (still with a cloth).
*CAUTION: The coolant must be recovered in a suitable, clean container for reuse. If the coolant is contaminated it must be recycled or disposed of correctly and replaced.
NOTE: Less than 80 percent of coolant capacity can be recovered with the engine in the vehicle. Dirty, rusty or contaminated coolant requires system flush and replacement. Always flush the system and replace the coolant when installing a new water pump. In the event any hoses are removed, install new appropriately sized worm style clamps in place of the constant tension clamps.
1.Release the pressure in the cooling system by slowly turning the pressure relief cap one half turn counterclockwise or the radiator cap counterclockwise to the first stop. When the pressure is released, remove the pressure relief cap/radiator cap.
2.Place a suitable container below the radiator draincock (8115). If equipped disconnect the coolant return hose at the fluid cooler. Drain the engine coolant.
Close the radiator draincock.
*
Filling — 3.8L
Both engines
*CAUTION: Engine coolant provides freeze protection, boil protection, cooling efficiency and corrosion protection to the engine and cooling components. In order to obtain these protections, the engine coolant must be maintained at the correct concentration and fluid level in the degas bottle.
When adding engine coolant, use a 50/50 mixture of engine coolant and clean, drinkable water.
To maintain the integrity of the coolant and the cooling system:
Add Motorcraft Premium Engine Coolant VC-4-A (in Oregon VC-5, in Canada CXC-10) or equivalent meeting Ford specification ESE-M97B44-A.
Do not add orange-colored extended life coolant such as VC-2 or equivalent, meeting Ford specification WSS-M97B44-D. Mixing coolants may degrade the coolant's corrosion protection.
Do not add alcohol or methanol or any engine coolants mixed with alcohol or methanol antifreeze. These can cause engine damage from overheating or freezing.
Do not mix with recycled coolant unless it meets the requirements of Ford specification ESE-M97B44-A. Not all coolant recycling processes meet this Ford specification; use of such a coolant may harm the engine and cooling system components.
1.Place the heater temperature selector in the maximum heat position.
2.*CAUTION: On 3.8L engines, the vent plug must be removed before radiator fill or the engine may not fill completely.
NOTE: It is important to maintain engine coolant concentrate between 40 percent or -24°C (-11°F) and 60 percent or -52°C (-62°F).
Fill the engine cooling system with 50/50 mixture of water and engine coolant.
3.8L engines
3.After filling the engine cooling system, add coolant to the vent until full. Install the vent plug.
Both engines
4.Leave the pressure relief cap off and run the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature.
5.Stop the engine and add the correct engine coolant mixture to the degas bottle/coolant expansion tank until the coolant level is between the COOLANT FILL LEVEL marks.
6.Turn the engine off and allow the cooling system to cool. Check the level in the degas bottle/coolant expansion tank, and add a 50/50 mix as needed.
I use two quarts of mobile 1 syn atf.
Each time you drain, you get about 1/3 quart out. I repeated this 5-6 times until the fluid was nice and clean. I drove the car a couple of miles between each drain to mix up the atf. I did notice my steering was a little smoother and that the pump got quieter after each drain/fill.
I did get ahold of a ford service cd and had the Cooling System Draining, Filling and Bleeding for my 2001 v6. Here it is for future reference:
Cooling System Draining, Filling and Bleeding
Material
Item
Specification
Motorcraft Premium Engine Coolant
VC-4-A (in Oregon VC-5, in Canada CXC-10) or equivalent
ESE-M97B44-A
*
Draining
*WARNING: Never remove the pressure relief cap while the engine is operating or when the cooling system is hot. Failure to follow these instructions can result in damage to the cooling system or engine or personal injury. To avoid having scalding hot coolant or steam blow out of the degas bottle when removing the pressure relief cap, wait until the engine has cooled, then wrap a thick cloth around the pressure relief cap and turn it slowly. Step back while the pressure is released from the cooling system. When you are sure all the pressure has been released, turn and remove the pressure relief cap (still with a cloth).
*CAUTION: The coolant must be recovered in a suitable, clean container for reuse. If the coolant is contaminated it must be recycled or disposed of correctly and replaced.
NOTE: Less than 80 percent of coolant capacity can be recovered with the engine in the vehicle. Dirty, rusty or contaminated coolant requires system flush and replacement. Always flush the system and replace the coolant when installing a new water pump. In the event any hoses are removed, install new appropriately sized worm style clamps in place of the constant tension clamps.
1.Release the pressure in the cooling system by slowly turning the pressure relief cap one half turn counterclockwise or the radiator cap counterclockwise to the first stop. When the pressure is released, remove the pressure relief cap/radiator cap.
2.Place a suitable container below the radiator draincock (8115). If equipped disconnect the coolant return hose at the fluid cooler. Drain the engine coolant.
Close the radiator draincock.
*
Filling — 3.8L
Both engines
*CAUTION: Engine coolant provides freeze protection, boil protection, cooling efficiency and corrosion protection to the engine and cooling components. In order to obtain these protections, the engine coolant must be maintained at the correct concentration and fluid level in the degas bottle.
When adding engine coolant, use a 50/50 mixture of engine coolant and clean, drinkable water.
To maintain the integrity of the coolant and the cooling system:
Add Motorcraft Premium Engine Coolant VC-4-A (in Oregon VC-5, in Canada CXC-10) or equivalent meeting Ford specification ESE-M97B44-A.
Do not add orange-colored extended life coolant such as VC-2 or equivalent, meeting Ford specification WSS-M97B44-D. Mixing coolants may degrade the coolant's corrosion protection.
Do not add alcohol or methanol or any engine coolants mixed with alcohol or methanol antifreeze. These can cause engine damage from overheating or freezing.
Do not mix with recycled coolant unless it meets the requirements of Ford specification ESE-M97B44-A. Not all coolant recycling processes meet this Ford specification; use of such a coolant may harm the engine and cooling system components.
1.Place the heater temperature selector in the maximum heat position.
2.*CAUTION: On 3.8L engines, the vent plug must be removed before radiator fill or the engine may not fill completely.
NOTE: It is important to maintain engine coolant concentrate between 40 percent or -24°C (-11°F) and 60 percent or -52°C (-62°F).
Fill the engine cooling system with 50/50 mixture of water and engine coolant.
3.8L engines
3.After filling the engine cooling system, add coolant to the vent until full. Install the vent plug.
Both engines
4.Leave the pressure relief cap off and run the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature.
5.Stop the engine and add the correct engine coolant mixture to the degas bottle/coolant expansion tank until the coolant level is between the COOLANT FILL LEVEL marks.
6.Turn the engine off and allow the cooling system to cool. Check the level in the degas bottle/coolant expansion tank, and add a 50/50 mix as needed.
Banned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 92
From: Calgary AB
Good post Ryan. I worked at Mr lube here in calgary and got fired
after 3 days. I thought it was a technical job, but when i found out i had
to sell all this garbage to customers i pulled out. I was becoming one of those
douchebag sales guys that sells u anything and everything. Its ridiculous
what they try to sell you these days from the diff service to the auto tranny ****.
Its not that fact of the services thats the problem, but your advised to change
these fluids much faster than you should have to. Waste of money it is.
Very good info nice to see other people are starting to realize this crap.
after 3 days. I thought it was a technical job, but when i found out i had
to sell all this garbage to customers i pulled out. I was becoming one of those
douchebag sales guys that sells u anything and everything. Its ridiculous
what they try to sell you these days from the diff service to the auto tranny ****.
Its not that fact of the services thats the problem, but your advised to change
these fluids much faster than you should have to. Waste of money it is.
Very good info nice to see other people are starting to realize this crap.