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Single Plane Intakes... Loss of Torque?
....YOU'LL make it before I will, I'm nowhere close to being back on the street
03-19-2009, 09:00 PM
#25
5th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: louisiana
Posts: 2,763
nope, no burn outs lol
a stock mustang can spin the tires, im not wasting rubber.
i will have a video this weekend, i have to get somebody over that can run a camera, ill get a little first gear action, but thats all i can get. no plate/ins. so i have to stay on my road, which isnt long.
a stock mustang can spin the tires, im not wasting rubber.
i will have a video this weekend, i have to get somebody over that can run a camera, ill get a little first gear action, but thats all i can get. no plate/ins. so i have to stay on my road, which isnt long.
03-20-2009, 10:31 AM
#28
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SC
Posts: 2,401
and port, the main reason was to show people that those myths like:
any TB larger than 70-75mm will cause a tq. loss
exhaust larger than 2.5in will cause tq loss
huge SP intakes under 4k and they make no power.
im 100% happy with my car, the tune isnt done yet, and it still doesnt buck at low speed/rpm.
may i ask who was the grinder?
As far as larger exhaust goes you can go to big especially with headers. You want headers that will flow the exhaust as fast as possible without restriction. If the header is too large exhaust speed is to slow and it won't scavange the exhaust from the next cylinder firing on that head and then if you have a 3 inch H pipe it won't be working for you until you get up into high rpm. It's not back pressure but the lack of scavanging the cylinder that hurts power. Smaller exhaust works better down low. You just have to size the headers and exhaust to your situation.
It's all about getting air in and air out and is super critical on N/A engines. With the right intake that fills the cylinders well and an exhaust that actually pulls the charge form the cylinder the engine will actually create a light supercharging effect bring it past 100% VE. The exiting exhaust if scavanged correctly will help pull in the intake charge on the next stroke.
There is a lot more to it that just throwing on the biggest parts in the bin. It's really great that you are so happy with your car but again those things arn't myths. Some people don't drive at WOT all the time, lol
03-20-2009, 11:57 AM
#29
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: cape giradeau,mo
Posts: 8,872
how are they facts when it has been proven over and over that is a myth?
we are not throwing parts together with his 331 build those were hand picked.
so you are going to tell me that the new toyota trucks using larger custom style headers made them lose tq?
or the lincoln's 300hp 6 cylinder using a too large t-body or meter?
they are myths from the old day's when people had no clue what they were doing or had a neighbor with a 800hp camaro than ran like a turd tell them so.
i can bring proof where two people ran the same single plane intake t-body and injectors BUT had two different cams,and heads. still they lost zero tq but had so much acceleration they didn't know what to do with it.
i can also bring proof where somebody took a stock block gt40 90mm t-body and a holley lower and a box upper run bottom 11's
this can be irrelevent to you,but i even went to the large side and ended up making the proven myth that a dss pro bullet is ok to scrap junk with a too large intake t-body and meter ect ect, and i was turning it less than 6500 rpm
so if i take a stock 5.0 and put 1 3/4 headers 3 inch exhaust it won't gain down the track?
what if i took the same motor and threw a 75 t-body and that was it...it wouldn't gain either?
like the old saying for every action there is a reaction not a compromise.
kinda like what you said to me in that dss post...if a person comes to you with doubt or discouragement you have no time for them or something like that..
quit discouraging others on building slower engines with those are not myths they are facts the truth is out there and the readers need to know the truth.
btw my car has been to florida and back from missouri netting 22mpg,and still had plenty of tq to go down the track
we are not throwing parts together with his 331 build those were hand picked.
so you are going to tell me that the new toyota trucks using larger custom style headers made them lose tq?
or the lincoln's 300hp 6 cylinder using a too large t-body or meter?
they are myths from the old day's when people had no clue what they were doing or had a neighbor with a 800hp camaro than ran like a turd tell them so.
i can bring proof where two people ran the same single plane intake t-body and injectors BUT had two different cams,and heads. still they lost zero tq but had so much acceleration they didn't know what to do with it.
i can also bring proof where somebody took a stock block gt40 90mm t-body and a holley lower and a box upper run bottom 11's
this can be irrelevent to you,but i even went to the large side and ended up making the proven myth that a dss pro bullet is ok to scrap junk with a too large intake t-body and meter ect ect, and i was turning it less than 6500 rpm
so if i take a stock 5.0 and put 1 3/4 headers 3 inch exhaust it won't gain down the track?
what if i took the same motor and threw a 75 t-body and that was it...it wouldn't gain either?
like the old saying for every action there is a reaction not a compromise.
kinda like what you said to me in that dss post...if a person comes to you with doubt or discouragement you have no time for them or something like that..
quit discouraging others on building slower engines with those are not myths they are facts the truth is out there and the readers need to know the truth.
btw my car has been to florida and back from missouri netting 22mpg,and still had plenty of tq to go down the track
03-20-2009, 02:34 PM
#30
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 3,926
and port, the main reason was to show people that those myths like:
any TB larger than 70-75mm will cause a tq. loss
exhaust larger than 2.5in will cause tq loss
huge SP intakes under 4k and they make no power.
im 100% happy with my car, the tune isnt done yet, and it still doesnt buck at low speed/rpm.
may i ask who was the grinder?
any TB larger than 70-75mm will cause a tq. loss
exhaust larger than 2.5in will cause tq loss
huge SP intakes under 4k and they make no power.
im 100% happy with my car, the tune isnt done yet, and it still doesnt buck at low speed/rpm.
may i ask who was the grinder?
As far as larger exhaust goes you can go to big especially with headers. You want headers that will flow the exhaust as fast as possible without restriction. If the header is too large exhaust speed is to slow and it won't scavange the exhaust from the next cylinder firing on that head and then if you have a 3 inch H pipe it won't be working for you until you get up into high rpm. It's not back pressure but the lack of scavanging the cylinder that hurts power. Smaller exhaust works better down low. You just have to size the headers and exhaust to your situation.
It's all about getting air in and air out and is super critical on N/A engines. With the right intake that fills the cylinders well and an exhaust that actually pulls the charge form the cylinder the engine will actually create a light supercharging effect bring it past 100% VE. The exiting exhaust if scavanged correctly will help pull in the intake charge on the next stroke.
There is a lot more to it that just throwing on the biggest parts in the bin. It's really great that you are so happy with your car but again those things arn't myths. Some people don't drive at WOT all the time, lol
"any TB larger than 70-75mm will cause a tq. loss"
In what type of setup?...... that is a false generic statement. Or are the OEM's going against that "rule of thumb"?
All the facts below are OEM: (Bore ID - TB blade area ID)
2005 Dodge Dakota 3.9L(238 CID) V6 TB = 65-65mm
2007 Ford Explorer 4.0L(244 CID) V6 TB = 70-63mm
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.7L(287 CID) V8 TB = 65-68mm
1995 Mercedes C280 2.8L(171 CID) I6 TB = 75-70mm
2005 Lincoln LS 3.9L(238 CID) V8 TB = 82-70mm
Are the above made up figures?..... Nope...... checked and measured each one of the above myself.
"exhaust larger than 2.5in will cause tq loss"
When nothing is done on the intake side to provide for the new exhaust..... sure. The intake of the A/F needs to match the better exhaust. Does this mean zoomies are better then?......
... it has to match, but going smaller (aka restricting the exhaust) and getting better performance = crutch deficiencies/hide problems elsewhere in the combo."huge SP intakes under 4k and they make no power"
When the valve events used are not the correct ones, more restrictions on the intake will crutch/alleviate the mismatch. Why were I able to use a SP intake with a 700 cfm Holley, 2.73 gears and DN 4+1 transmission as a daily driver? Why is a 302/302 with Holley lower/CarTech box upper + 70mm TB + 195cc heads and 3" exhaust performs better than the previous Edelbrock Performers, Cobra Intake, 65mm and 2.5" exhaust system? Did he have to increase injectors?..... sure, but the NX system has been on vacation since. Still a daily driver, all accessories functional, A/C inclusive.
Does it have to rev past 4000 RPM's all the way to 7000 RPM's to make some power?....... Nope. Does it have a custom cam?..... not yet.
Last edited by Joel5.0; 03-20-2009 at 02:41 PM.