Whipple and Roush
03-14-2010, 01:13 PM
#11
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Merritt Island, FL
Posts: 996
I think the Roush M90 and the non-intercooled Whipple would make around the same horsepower to the wheels. If you wanted more power, it looks like you would have to buy the R2300 Roush supercharger as a replacement whereas with the Whipple you would just have to do the intercooler and fuel system upgrade and then you could run more boost.
03-14-2010, 01:22 PM
#12
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 464
The main issue is should I be concerned with heat soak and engine issues with the 5psi kit?
I also looked it seems leathal performance has great prices over the FRPP website on the whipple kit... I most likely will be ordering from there because thats more in the range for what I think those kits are worth, sorry but over 7k for the HO Whipple before installation is not worth it to me and over 5k for the non-intercooled Whipple kit. But 5k for 400hp and 6.5k for 550hp before installation is def worth it.
I also looked it seems leathal performance has great prices over the FRPP website on the whipple kit... I most likely will be ordering from there because thats more in the range for what I think those kits are worth, sorry but over 7k for the HO Whipple before installation is not worth it to me and over 5k for the non-intercooled Whipple kit. But 5k for 400hp and 6.5k for 550hp before installation is def worth it.
Last edited by Lax07; 03-14-2010 at 01:39 PM. Reason: pricing finds
03-14-2010, 01:46 PM
#13
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Merritt Island, FL
Posts: 996
The main issue is should I be concerned with heat soak and engine issues with the 5psi kit?
I also looked it seems leathal performance has great prices over the FRPP website on the whipple kit... I most likely will be ordering from there because thats more in the range for what I think those kits are worth, sorry but over 7k for the HO Whipple before installation is not worth it to me and over 5k for the non-intercooled Whipple kit. But 5k for 400hp and 6.5k for 550hp before installation is def worth it.
I also looked it seems leathal performance has great prices over the FRPP website on the whipple kit... I most likely will be ordering from there because thats more in the range for what I think those kits are worth, sorry but over 7k for the HO Whipple before installation is not worth it to me and over 5k for the non-intercooled Whipple kit. But 5k for 400hp and 6.5k for 550hp before installation is def worth it.
03-14-2010, 02:43 PM
#14
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 34
If you want the supercharger to perform the best it can get an intercooler. Also don't forget to beef up the suspension and the brakes as well. All of us who are looking to add HP sometimes forget that getting everything else setup to handle the additional power is key as well.
A supercharger is definitely in my future (Edelbrock E-Force), but right now I'm getting ready to beef up the suspension and then the brakes. I'm really in no rush to add a supercharger until after I have the base set to handle it, but like the OP, I spent months researching which supercharger was best for me.
A supercharger is definitely in my future (Edelbrock E-Force), but right now I'm getting ready to beef up the suspension and then the brakes. I'm really in no rush to add a supercharger until after I have the base set to handle it, but like the OP, I spent months researching which supercharger was best for me.
03-25-2010, 12:49 AM
#16
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California
Posts: 35
Lax07 - The intercooler doesn't take heat out of the engine, per se.
When a gas (in this case, air) is compressed, it gets hot. Hot air, when mixed with fuel, has 2 downsides for an engine:
1) higher risk of detonation (pre combustion within the cylinder before the spark plug fires - this can cause major damage over time)
2) a lower density air/fuel charge, which robs power
The intercooler takes heat out of the charge air, increasing the density (more power) and reducing the likelihood of detonation. That's why intercooled supercharger systems provide higher power levels with better protection against detonation via higher charge air pressures.
Heat soak is the buildup of heat within the engine over time. There are 2 basic ways to get heat out - via the exhaust and out the cooling system (radiator). The stock cooling system can easily get the heat out of a stock GT, and even in a supercharged (>500HP) application if ambient air temperature is <100 degrees. I've run my '05 (~530 HP) at Buttonwillow in August (~105 degrees) and could get the temperature up towards the danger zone only when pushing the car VERY hard.
Everybody's got their own preferences. I don't care for the centrifugal systems because they're more peaky than twin-screws. The best feature of the twin-screws is smooth power improvement across the RPM range. This means you can more reliably get power to the ground, and better control wheelspin.
If you're going to drop $5k on a centrifugal system, I'd strongly suggest you look at a Kenne Bell Stage I system. It costs $5,800, and except for a set of cooler temperature plugs, EVERYTHING is included. The manual is fantastic, and the tech support is top notch. Took me ~25 hours to install. The system has been bulletproof for me.
If at all possible, drive an '05 up Mustang with each type of blower to see what you prefer. You may get higher peak HP bragging rights with a centrifugal (or twin turbo system), but a twin-screw has smoother power delivery and superior drivability, and I guarantee will put a ****-eating grin on your face every time you put your foot down.
When a gas (in this case, air) is compressed, it gets hot. Hot air, when mixed with fuel, has 2 downsides for an engine:
1) higher risk of detonation (pre combustion within the cylinder before the spark plug fires - this can cause major damage over time)
2) a lower density air/fuel charge, which robs power
The intercooler takes heat out of the charge air, increasing the density (more power) and reducing the likelihood of detonation. That's why intercooled supercharger systems provide higher power levels with better protection against detonation via higher charge air pressures.
Heat soak is the buildup of heat within the engine over time. There are 2 basic ways to get heat out - via the exhaust and out the cooling system (radiator). The stock cooling system can easily get the heat out of a stock GT, and even in a supercharged (>500HP) application if ambient air temperature is <100 degrees. I've run my '05 (~530 HP) at Buttonwillow in August (~105 degrees) and could get the temperature up towards the danger zone only when pushing the car VERY hard.
Everybody's got their own preferences. I don't care for the centrifugal systems because they're more peaky than twin-screws. The best feature of the twin-screws is smooth power improvement across the RPM range. This means you can more reliably get power to the ground, and better control wheelspin.
If you're going to drop $5k on a centrifugal system, I'd strongly suggest you look at a Kenne Bell Stage I system. It costs $5,800, and except for a set of cooler temperature plugs, EVERYTHING is included. The manual is fantastic, and the tech support is top notch. Took me ~25 hours to install. The system has been bulletproof for me.
If at all possible, drive an '05 up Mustang with each type of blower to see what you prefer. You may get higher peak HP bragging rights with a centrifugal (or twin turbo system), but a twin-screw has smoother power delivery and superior drivability, and I guarantee will put a ****-eating grin on your face every time you put your foot down.
03-25-2010, 09:59 AM
#18
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,397
i drove a 427r with the r90 and it was a f'ing blast. I'm getting one and the haters can hate, at least i won't have to worry about the warranty. And the roush is most certainly upgradable, you can get pulleys, tunes and all manner of other things. Roush says the cold air induction kit along will put you at about 450whp, which is about all you want on the stock block anyhow. If you have no intentions of forging, why not go roush with the intercooler, keep your warranty and save some cash?
03-25-2010, 01:13 PM
#19
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Okinawa Japan
Posts: 187
Exactly, i have a thread around here talking about my quest for FI. I like to do my own research so i called up FRPP, roush, and several dealers. it boils down to with the 400 hp FRPP blower of any kind you get a 12M/12K mile warranty on the powertrain, which to me might was well be the same as not getting one and the 500/550 kit is blower warranty only. the roush on the other hand is 36/36 just like the factory at any ford dealer.
i drove a 427r with the r90 and it was a f'ing blast. I'm getting one and the haters can hate, at least i won't have to worry about the warranty. And the roush is most certainly upgradable, you can get pulleys, tunes and all manner of other things. Roush says the cold air induction kit along will put you at about 450whp, which is about all you want on the stock block anyhow. If you have no intentions of forging, why not go roush with the intercooler, keep your warranty and save some cash?
i drove a 427r with the r90 and it was a f'ing blast. I'm getting one and the haters can hate, at least i won't have to worry about the warranty. And the roush is most certainly upgradable, you can get pulleys, tunes and all manner of other things. Roush says the cold air induction kit along will put you at about 450whp, which is about all you want on the stock block anyhow. If you have no intentions of forging, why not go roush with the intercooler, keep your warranty and save some cash?
03-25-2010, 06:26 PM
#20
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 464
Or... getting the Whipple HO kit and get a pulley that only pulls 7-8psi... From what I heard the whipple tune allows you to run pulleys within a certain range and the tune will be fine. This will leave you right around 435rwhp (members of the whipple crew have confirmed that). And then you have a much more upgradeable system that runs more efficient plus the roush is only a 1.8L where the whipple is a 2.3L system... I personally will be getting the Whipple HO kit and running a 7-8psi pulley. That way I know if I ever want to go crazy with the system I can, but if I don't I'm in a perfectly safe range.