PROJECT -My New/Old Ride
10-30-2008, 04:12 AM
#1
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 715
PROJECT -My New/Old Ride
(LOTS OF PICS!!!) ENJOY!
(NOTE: I will be relocating the Holley Electric Fuel Pump soon. I stuck it under the hood to get the car going. It is meant to be installed motor-side-up and at the rear of the car below the fuel level)
Picked up a '65 Coupe in Fall of 2008.
This car is my class project at ARC in Sacramento, CA. I'll be working on it both this Fall/Winter and next Spring semester, and maybe next Fall also, we'll see.
I'll keep everyone informed and post new pics as I go so stay-tuned!
It came with...
-Current registration
-minimal rust
-runs strong
-Late-model 1985 .020 over Roller 302 HO motor with forged TRW pistons and mildly ported '85 heads with larger valves, 1.7 JBA Roller Rockers, 10k miles on long-block
-MSD 6A
-MSD billet distributor
-Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
-Carter/Edelbrock 600cfm 4 bbl carb with electric choke
-Hi-po 289 exhaust manifolds (actually '69 windsor manifolds)
-C4 auto trans with a mild shift-kit
-body mostly intact and no major damage
-Doors open and close ok
-Drives ok but needs suspension and steering work, looks like front-end has a few new parts.
Problems I found in the first few weeks...
-no thermostat installed
-no fan-shroud
-wrong balance on flywheel
-wrong distributor gear
-worn out u-joints
-idler arm loose at frame
-brake shoes cracked
-fuel sending unit bad
-tires shot
-weatherstripping shot
-cooling system is marginal
-toe-boards are rusting through
-exhaust very old and restrictive (rusty 2" dual with old-style turbo-mufflers)
-trunk lock sucks
-doors keyed differently
-interior bad, seat frames shot
-intake manifold leaking
-passenger quarter panel possibly been replaced and doesn't line up with door properly
-crappy aftermarket ratchet shifter that's falling apart
-crappy gear-drive is noisy as hell and something doesn't sound that good in there
-Upper control arms show severe damage, both cracked where spring perch mounts
-has 6-cylinder steering components
-front clip has cracking in front of Lower control arms
-radiator support crooked, repaired poorly
-looks like maybe the car went over a center-divide at one time, underneath is pretty scarred up but fixable, unibody appears straight
A few months into it...
-gear-Drive vibration loosened up the camshaft retaining bolts
-camshaft to walk into the front cover
-lifters began to pump-down and fail
-harmonic balancer slipped/spitting out rubber damper
-oil pan gasket wasn't installed correctly
-camshaft WAY TOO BIG for 1.7 rockers, total cam lift was exceeding .547
-valve-springs were binding
-3 valve-springs were cracked
-under-hood wiring needs gutted
What I've done/replaced so far... (Updated as I go) (SEE PICS BELOW!!)
-new distributor gear
-2007 6-cylinder 16" wheels
-new U-Joints
-new flywheel
-new starter
-new Holley 650 Double-Pumper
-custom Edelbrock air cleaner
-Nascar Select cap
-MSD specific rotor
-Autolite R26 plugs
-Ford Motorsport wires
-new Summit 2-core aluminum radiator
-Flex-a-lite low-boy 16" electric fan
-175-195 degree thermo-switch for fan
-180 degree thermostat
-new Holley red electric fuel pump
-GT rear valance
-3" exhaust tips
-purchased all new trim pieces, grill, bumpers, lock cylinders, etc.
-new brake shoes
-turned drums
-tightened up steering
-lowered front (cut coils)
-new upper and lower control arms/bushings/ball-joints
-new fuel sending unit
-used pony rear seat
-new Kragen racing bucket seats
-rebuilt and installed factory shifter in place of old junk ratchet shifter
-cleaned and painted interior of floorboards
-custom exhaust system with all 2.5" thick-wall pipe and h-pipe
-new Flowtech long-tube headers
-used 2-chamber 40-series Flowmasters
-351W cylinder heads with 6-angle valve job, back-cut swirl-polished and undercut one-piece stainless valves (yes 6 angles total), fully ported and polished runners, bowls, with polished chambers
-new Crane 2031 camshaft (.513/.529 lift with approximately 270-280 duration on a 112 LSA, for use with 1.7 rockers)
-new Comp Cams double-roller timing chain
-new water pump
-new Summit Pro-Street harmonic balancer
-battery hold-down kit
-new battery cables
-rewired everything under the hood and installed relays for fan and fuel pump
-repainted engine bay gloss black
-repainted engine cast-iron grey
--replaced front valance with new
-replaced r/h headlamp bucket with new
-replaced both headlamp doors with good/used
-replaced rock-guard with good/used
-replaced passenger door with good/used
-replaced hood with good/used
Thanks goes out to ARC Automotive Technology Shop (PATC Program) for what I've been able to accomplish so far. I've only had this thing for a few months and she's coming together nicely!
PICS!!
BODY AND PAINT DURING...
Scroll down to my next posts for more pics!
(NOTE: I will be relocating the Holley Electric Fuel Pump soon. I stuck it under the hood to get the car going. It is meant to be installed motor-side-up and at the rear of the car below the fuel level)
Picked up a '65 Coupe in Fall of 2008.
This car is my class project at ARC in Sacramento, CA. I'll be working on it both this Fall/Winter and next Spring semester, and maybe next Fall also, we'll see.
I'll keep everyone informed and post new pics as I go so stay-tuned!
It came with...
-Current registration
-minimal rust
-runs strong
-Late-model 1985 .020 over Roller 302 HO motor with forged TRW pistons and mildly ported '85 heads with larger valves, 1.7 JBA Roller Rockers, 10k miles on long-block
-MSD 6A
-MSD billet distributor
-Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
-Carter/Edelbrock 600cfm 4 bbl carb with electric choke
-Hi-po 289 exhaust manifolds (actually '69 windsor manifolds)
-C4 auto trans with a mild shift-kit
-body mostly intact and no major damage
-Doors open and close ok
-Drives ok but needs suspension and steering work, looks like front-end has a few new parts.
Problems I found in the first few weeks...
-no thermostat installed
-no fan-shroud
-wrong balance on flywheel
-wrong distributor gear
-worn out u-joints
-idler arm loose at frame
-brake shoes cracked
-fuel sending unit bad
-tires shot
-weatherstripping shot
-cooling system is marginal
-toe-boards are rusting through
-exhaust very old and restrictive (rusty 2" dual with old-style turbo-mufflers)
-trunk lock sucks
-doors keyed differently
-interior bad, seat frames shot
-intake manifold leaking
-passenger quarter panel possibly been replaced and doesn't line up with door properly
-crappy aftermarket ratchet shifter that's falling apart
-crappy gear-drive is noisy as hell and something doesn't sound that good in there
-Upper control arms show severe damage, both cracked where spring perch mounts
-has 6-cylinder steering components
-front clip has cracking in front of Lower control arms
-radiator support crooked, repaired poorly
-looks like maybe the car went over a center-divide at one time, underneath is pretty scarred up but fixable, unibody appears straight
A few months into it...
-gear-Drive vibration loosened up the camshaft retaining bolts
-camshaft to walk into the front cover
-lifters began to pump-down and fail
-harmonic balancer slipped/spitting out rubber damper
-oil pan gasket wasn't installed correctly
-camshaft WAY TOO BIG for 1.7 rockers, total cam lift was exceeding .547
-valve-springs were binding
-3 valve-springs were cracked
-under-hood wiring needs gutted
What I've done/replaced so far... (Updated as I go) (SEE PICS BELOW!!)
-new distributor gear
-2007 6-cylinder 16" wheels
-new U-Joints
-new flywheel
-new starter
-new Holley 650 Double-Pumper
-custom Edelbrock air cleaner
-Nascar Select cap
-MSD specific rotor
-Autolite R26 plugs
-Ford Motorsport wires
-new Summit 2-core aluminum radiator
-Flex-a-lite low-boy 16" electric fan
-175-195 degree thermo-switch for fan
-180 degree thermostat
-new Holley red electric fuel pump
-GT rear valance
-3" exhaust tips
-purchased all new trim pieces, grill, bumpers, lock cylinders, etc.
-new brake shoes
-turned drums
-tightened up steering
-lowered front (cut coils)
-new upper and lower control arms/bushings/ball-joints
-new fuel sending unit
-used pony rear seat
-new Kragen racing bucket seats
-rebuilt and installed factory shifter in place of old junk ratchet shifter
-cleaned and painted interior of floorboards
-custom exhaust system with all 2.5" thick-wall pipe and h-pipe
-new Flowtech long-tube headers
-used 2-chamber 40-series Flowmasters
-351W cylinder heads with 6-angle valve job, back-cut swirl-polished and undercut one-piece stainless valves (yes 6 angles total), fully ported and polished runners, bowls, with polished chambers
-new Crane 2031 camshaft (.513/.529 lift with approximately 270-280 duration on a 112 LSA, for use with 1.7 rockers)
-new Comp Cams double-roller timing chain
-new water pump
-new Summit Pro-Street harmonic balancer
-battery hold-down kit
-new battery cables
-rewired everything under the hood and installed relays for fan and fuel pump
-repainted engine bay gloss black
-repainted engine cast-iron grey
--replaced front valance with new
-replaced r/h headlamp bucket with new
-replaced both headlamp doors with good/used
-replaced rock-guard with good/used
-replaced passenger door with good/used
-replaced hood with good/used
Thanks goes out to ARC Automotive Technology Shop (PATC Program) for what I've been able to accomplish so far. I've only had this thing for a few months and she's coming together nicely!
PICS!!
BODY AND PAINT DURING...
Scroll down to my next posts for more pics!
Last edited by bwkelley76; 02-25-2009 at 05:20 AM.
10-30-2008, 11:08 AM
#3
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 715
MORE ENGINE PICS, ETC
Thanks! A few things I noticed so far... Someone installed new brake shoes but did not replace the spring hardware causing the shoes to pull away from the backing plate and rub the face of the drums. This was all due to weak retaining springs, the ones that hold the shoes to the backing plate. Not many people think to replace these.
Also, old 2-chamber 40-series mufflers in combination with Hi-Po exhaust manifolds and tiny 2" exhaust is still Loud as Hell! The difference between the exhaust running out the back and cut off at the muffler is also HUGE. The closer you get to the muffler the deeper the sound for sure. Can't wait to hear it with the 2.5" pipe with crossover, plummed all the way out the back.
A 5.0 roller engine will run almost flawlessly with a cast-iron distributor gear for some time, all the while chewing the gear up and putting harmful shavings into your crankcase. You wont even know until it shears off and the engine quits. I got lucky and pulled mine out and looked before that happened and sure enough the gear was starting to get chewed up badly. So far so good with the new brass gear. Also if using an MSD distributor you have to get a custom gear from Summit Racing and it has to be pressed on and drilled for the roll-pin. Kindof a pain in the ***.
/////////11/14/08 Replaced the upper and lower control arms and cut a coil and a half out of the front springs. The thing actually rides soft and nothing rubs! Compare to the before pics for height difference (I'd say 3 or more inches lower and look at the cracks in the original upper control arms. I also found a huge crack in the front portion of the unibody and was able to weld it up. On the alignment rack I was able to get well over 3 degrees of caster and almost 1 degree of negative camber.
Also, old 2-chamber 40-series mufflers in combination with Hi-Po exhaust manifolds and tiny 2" exhaust is still Loud as Hell! The difference between the exhaust running out the back and cut off at the muffler is also HUGE. The closer you get to the muffler the deeper the sound for sure. Can't wait to hear it with the 2.5" pipe with crossover, plummed all the way out the back.
A 5.0 roller engine will run almost flawlessly with a cast-iron distributor gear for some time, all the while chewing the gear up and putting harmful shavings into your crankcase. You wont even know until it shears off and the engine quits. I got lucky and pulled mine out and looked before that happened and sure enough the gear was starting to get chewed up badly. So far so good with the new brass gear. Also if using an MSD distributor you have to get a custom gear from Summit Racing and it has to be pressed on and drilled for the roll-pin. Kindof a pain in the ***.
/////////11/14/08 Replaced the upper and lower control arms and cut a coil and a half out of the front springs. The thing actually rides soft and nothing rubs! Compare to the before pics for height difference (I'd say 3 or more inches lower and look at the cracks in the original upper control arms. I also found a huge crack in the front portion of the unibody and was able to weld it up. On the alignment rack I was able to get well over 3 degrees of caster and almost 1 degree of negative camber.
Last edited by bwkelley76; 01-23-2009 at 11:20 PM.
10-30-2008, 01:28 PM
#4
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,839
I would use a steel gear or Comp Cams composite gear over a brass. You will be replacing that brass gear often. You can press the gear on and off with a bench vice. You can even use the same roll pin hole if you are very careful and a little lucky. The critical part is getting the gear positioned on the shaft in the exact position.
There is a huge difference in sound between pipes that end under the car and those that extend out the back, regardless of muffler type.
There is a huge difference in sound between pipes that end under the car and those that extend out the back, regardless of muffler type.
10-31-2008, 11:14 AM
#5
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,195
Congrats. . . the nice thing about ARC is the welding shop is right next door to the autoshop. Your brakes are probably hanging up on the backing plate. You might have to weld up the feet on the backing plate, and grind them flat, so the shoes will move freely. The guys at American Mustang are awesome. 100 X's better then Mustangs Plus. Good luck!
11-01-2008, 09:26 PM
#7
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 715
SUSPENSION AND INTERIOR PICS
Congrats. . . the nice thing about ARC is the welding shop is right next door to the autoshop. Your brakes are probably hanging up on the backing plate. You might have to weld up the feet on the backing plate, and grind them flat, so the shoes will move freely. The guys at American Mustang are awesome. 100 X's better then Mustangs Plus. Good luck!
I've never been to Mustangs Plus.
I just got the brakes all fixed. I actually ground everything flat before putting it all together. I turned all the rotors properly, repacked the bearings, replaced all the hardware, and everything works cherry now.
MORE PICS!...
SUSPENSION AFTER...
SUSPENSION DURING...
SUSPENSION BEFORE...
INTERIOR DURING...
INTERIOR BEFORE...
Last edited by bwkelley76; 12-17-2008 at 05:15 PM.
11-01-2008, 09:30 PM
#8
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 715
CYLINDER HEADS & MORE ENGINE PICS
I would use a steel gear or Comp Cams composite gear over a brass. You will be replacing that brass gear often. You can press the gear on and off with a bench vice. You can even use the same roll pin hole if you are very careful and a little lucky. The critical part is getting the gear positioned on the shaft in the exact position.
There is a huge difference in sound between pipes that end under the car and those that extend out the back, regardless of muffler type.
There is a huge difference in sound between pipes that end under the car and those that extend out the back, regardless of muffler type.
ENGINE AFTER A LOT OF WORK!...
ENGINE COMPARTMENT BEFORE...
ENGINE DURING...
CYLINDER HEADS AFTER...
CYLINDER HEADS DURING...
Last edited by bwkelley76; 01-21-2009 at 09:52 PM.
11-01-2008, 09:58 PM
#9
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 715
All my new parts arrived! New headers, new 650 Holley Double-Pumper carb, aluminum radiator and a few more goodies.
Installed the carb, holy crap WHAT A DIFFERENCE! It's the best thing I've done yet. Next week I hope to have the headers and exhaust installed, time permitting. I've got a lot to do yet before I get to that though.
After I installed the carb I immediately noticed a bad hesitation coming from the main accelerator pump that got worse when it was warmer. Adjusting the shot had no effect at all. It turns out it was rubbing and hanging up on the linkage back by the primary shaft and pump cam. The heat of the engine would expand the metal and allow it to hang up worse when hot. A little tweak with a screwdriver and viola! Just bad assembly and/or QC on that part. I'd say maybe it got bent from shipping but it's too inboard to reflect an outside force as a cause. Probably got missed on the assembly line and/or not adjusted right.
Damn, Holleys are responsive carbs. I had the same carb on my non-roller big-cammed ported and polished 302 in my old 63 Falcon years back and it was really snappy. This one is acting just the same on my roller-equipped 302 in this Mustang and I love it. It might even be snappier due to the roller cam. I wish I knew what cam this thing had in it, it cackles pretty good at idle and seems to have a ton of midrange and high-end power, and not bad low-end torque either. That's the thing that sucked about my old flat-tappet 302, crappy bottom-end power.
Either way I can't wait to get the headers on this baby so it can breathe! I'll let you guys know how it goes!
CYLINDER HEADS DURING (Scroll down a few more posts for more)
CYLINDER HEADS BEFORE...
2nd GENERATION CHARGING SYSTEM UPGRADE WIRING DIAGRAMS (1980's internally regulated)
EXHAUST SYSTEM AFTER...
EXHAUST SYSTEM DURING...
EXHAUST SYSTEM BEFORE...
Installed the carb, holy crap WHAT A DIFFERENCE! It's the best thing I've done yet. Next week I hope to have the headers and exhaust installed, time permitting. I've got a lot to do yet before I get to that though.
After I installed the carb I immediately noticed a bad hesitation coming from the main accelerator pump that got worse when it was warmer. Adjusting the shot had no effect at all. It turns out it was rubbing and hanging up on the linkage back by the primary shaft and pump cam. The heat of the engine would expand the metal and allow it to hang up worse when hot. A little tweak with a screwdriver and viola! Just bad assembly and/or QC on that part. I'd say maybe it got bent from shipping but it's too inboard to reflect an outside force as a cause. Probably got missed on the assembly line and/or not adjusted right.
Damn, Holleys are responsive carbs. I had the same carb on my non-roller big-cammed ported and polished 302 in my old 63 Falcon years back and it was really snappy. This one is acting just the same on my roller-equipped 302 in this Mustang and I love it. It might even be snappier due to the roller cam. I wish I knew what cam this thing had in it, it cackles pretty good at idle and seems to have a ton of midrange and high-end power, and not bad low-end torque either. That's the thing that sucked about my old flat-tappet 302, crappy bottom-end power.
Either way I can't wait to get the headers on this baby so it can breathe! I'll let you guys know how it goes!
CYLINDER HEADS DURING (Scroll down a few more posts for more)
CYLINDER HEADS BEFORE...
2nd GENERATION CHARGING SYSTEM UPGRADE WIRING DIAGRAMS (1980's internally regulated)
EXHAUST SYSTEM AFTER...
EXHAUST SYSTEM DURING...
EXHAUST SYSTEM BEFORE...
Last edited by bwkelley76; 01-23-2009 at 11:28 PM.
11-01-2008, 10:30 PM
#10
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,839
Im curious to know more about the brass gear wearing out. That is what I have and what MSD recommends for my application since the distributor is an MSD billet model. The gear is actually an MSD gear. I don't have experience with composite gears. Which brings me to a question. What type of gear does Ford use from the factory on a roller cam setup? I've never seen a problem or concern with the stock gear and distributor.