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upper control arms

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Old 06-03-2009, 07:15 AM   #1
66tealstang
 
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Default upper control arms

I have a 66 stang. 289 mild cam about 300hp. Stock new suspension. Everything was replaced new before I got the car. I wanted to perform the shelby drop and 1" lower springs. Would I be better off with using a tubular upper control arm if I am only going to be driving the car around town. I may take to the strip afew times. but not much racing. I am looking for better overall handling and performance. My options are stock arms and just drop spings and edelbrock shocks and roller purches. Or should I add control arms. Any help. and which control arms are better. Global west or Total control

Thanks
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:55 AM   #2
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i just got done replacing my stuff in my 65. grab a track kits from mustang +, 620 springs with half coil cut and the shelby drop. car isnt on the road yet, cant wait tho!
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:34 AM   #3
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http://www.opentrackerracingproducts.com/streetupper/
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:43 AM   #4
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You could go either way as far as the control arms. Just pay attention to what you are buying. Some of them have the Shelby drop built into them by basically making them a little longer. You will love the performance when you are done.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:19 PM   #5
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I have a 66 stang. 289 mild cam about 300hp. Stock new suspension. Everything was replaced new before I got the car. I wanted to perform the shelby drop and 1" lower springs.
Excellent idea. Much better handling.

Would I be better off with using a tubular upper control arm if I am only going to be driving the car around town.
No. A waste of money for that use.

I may take to the strip afew times. but not much racing.
Shelby raced them with stock arms. While you are drilling the holes, put a couple of tack welds on the bushing caps.

I am looking for better overall handling and performance.
The 1" drop will do that.

My options are stock arms
Good.

and just drop springs
The 1" relocation will lower the front about 5/8". How low do you want to go?

and edelbrock shocks
Very good.

and roller perches.
Huge waste of money for very little gain.

Or should I add control arms.
No.

This car had the 1" drop, 1" front sway bar, and stock upper arms:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:35 PM   #6
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Those roller perches are not a waste of money. Myself and several other people here can attest to that. I actually broke a nearly brand new shock last year due to side-loading of the piston rod, prompting me to invest in a pair of roller perches (my OE-style perches were only about a year old). Roller perches free up suspension travel, eliminating the bind at the crappy stock rubber spring perch bushing. This allows road shock to be transmitted straight to the coil spring rather than twisting the spring (and shock) sideways as the control arm moves but the perch binds up. Not side loading the spring and shock allow them to function as they were meant to. It makes for a much smoother, more responsive suspension.

No, roller perches don't improve handling like the UCA drop does, but they do what they're supposed to do very well, which is improve suspension response and ride quality (and keep me from breaking another shock)


66tealstang, I think you'll be perfectly happy with the stock UCA's. I drive my car very hard and I still have the stock uppers. They work fine for me. At some point I'll probably upgrade to the boxed/rollerized OpenTracker arms, but the stock replacement arms work for now.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2+2GT View Post
and roller perches.
Huge waste of money for very little gain.
Most people seem to agree that roller perches are a big improvement
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:50 PM   #8
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Well thanks everyone. I just ordered the drop kit from Daze and 1" drop springs (620), and rollerized spring seats from mustangsunlimited. I will try that out first. I will try it for a while and may cut 1/4 coil after it settles. I want to see what the front looks and feels like befor I get into the back. Not sure about mid or rev leaf spings for the back or how stiff I want it. I will be getting the edelbroks with that purchase. Tanks again I will take some befor and after pics.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:07 PM   #9
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Since the spring saddle, rubber or roller, is held square, or NOT square, by the bottom of the spring, I don't see how a roller bearing changes this. I'd be happy to be wrong, but I just don't see a rubber bushing twisting the tangential end of a 620 pound coil spring.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:23 PM   #10
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Twisted it enough to break my shock...
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:07 PM   #11
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Twisted it enough to break my shock...
I'll concede your shock broke, but I cannot accept that a properly-installed saddle can twist a 620 pound coil spring so far that it broke your shock. You probably couldn't deflect that spring 1/4" using a crowbar and the entire weight of your body, while the shock insulators could easily deflect 1/4" to account for the movement. Your gonna have to do a lot better than "it broke my shock". I have 400,000 miles on the original saddles and upper arms, and I had Koni shocks for over 100,000 miles, and another 100,000 with KYB Gas-A-Just, replaced the original GT springs in 1991 with Shelby-spec coils, and still no problems. I have also owned over a dozen Mustangs, and worked in the auto business, and I have never seen a broken Mustang front shock, not even a cheap one. Either your shock was defective, or the saddle was, or something was installed improperly.

Hmmm… Just a thought- You weren't using urethane bushings, were you? They are a menace. Here's a Mustang strut with urethane bushings:

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Old 06-03-2009, 08:54 PM   #12
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Nope, rubber bushings. I've never seen or even heard of it either. After looking at the end of the broken rod (which tells a lot about the type of fracture) and thinking about when it broke, the logical conclusion is that the spring perch bound and side loaded the shock. It broke as I came over hill too fast into a depression, so the suspension (with stock springs) went from fully extended to fully compressed in a fraction of a second. That's a lot of force and enough of a change in the angle of the spring perch relative to the UCA that it could've caused the shock to fail. I don't think that's likely to happen to most people, but it's apparently possible, at least with the stock springs.

Even if it wasn't the cause, roller perches did make a noticeable improvement in ride quality and suspension response. The suspension is simply smoother. Any reduction in bind is going to improve the suspension, especially one with so much unsprung mass.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:25 AM   #13
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The price for the Open Tracker upper street arms is pretty damn good considering a new Grab-a-Trak arm from M+ is about $75 each. If you want to do a 1 3/4" drop you can always get the negative wedge kit from Pro-Motorsports but it runs about $270.

Tad, any chance your shock may have been misaligned with the travel path of the upper control arm/spring perch? I was mocking up my front suspension the other day and noticed with the slots on the top mount and play in the lower mount before tightening, that the shock could be misaligned very easily. The perch should be perpendicular to the shock body.

From C-C.com
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Originally Posted by Helmantel View Post
In side view, there should be no bind, as long as the UCA has the same inclination as the shock mount (which it does in the stock configuration). Some racers relocate the UCA to reduce anti-dive in which case the lower (and upper) shock mount need sperical pivots.

In front view, the perch should be perpendicular to the shock body to be bind-free. The perch is contoured to match the lower coil of the spring, but it is possible that stiffer springs with less coils don't match the contours too well and try to pivot the perch + lower shock body relative to the shock rod, which also happens when the suspension travels up and down.

One easy thing to check is to unbolt the upper shock bolts and see if the holes align with the bracket at rest. If you need to force it inward or outward in order to mount it, it indicates that the spring tries to force the pivot to rotate. You could even push the bumper and let the body move up and down to see how much the shock rod moves forth and back. This should be rather easy with the shocks unbolted.

I don't know how much all this would affect the shock though. Some people contribute the improved ride of roller spring perches to reduced shock binding. Since the resistance in the stock rubber perch bushing works in the same way as uneven loading of the perch by the spring, there may be some bind left due to the issues I mentioned above.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:51 AM   #14
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with the 620 1" and shelby drop, Will I need to cut the springs any or will that look ok. I saw some pic of a 65 fastback that had same setup but cut 1/2 coil. Looks badass but not sure if it would rub. I have 225/45/17 on the front. Also what set up would be best on the back. mid or rev leaf springs and what kind. any input would be helpful. thanks alot
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:00 AM   #15
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As far as cutting the spring, I would say you will have to install it, drive it around a bit, then go from there on whether you need to cut or not to suit your stance preferences.

For the rear I went with 5.5 mid eyes but I would NOT recommend using these for your application. However, I think a 4.5 mid eye spring would be good for your car. Should give you a nice lower than stock ride height. If you want to go lower then you could go with a reverse eye.

This is what my car looks like with mide eye springs. Ignore the front as there is no motor in the car in this picture.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviousfred View Post
Tad, any chance your shock may have been misaligned with the travel path of the upper control arm/spring perch? I was mocking up my front suspension the other day and noticed with the slots on the top mount and play in the lower mount before tightening, that the shock could be misaligned very easily. The perch should be perpendicular to the shock body.
Not that I could tell. Everything looked pretty square to me.
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:04 PM   #17
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My ride has shelby drop, 1'' drop 620's that I cut 1/2 coil. Had to notch the frame about 1/2 inch so that the sway bar would not rub and squeek. Wish I had gone with 540 springs because it is too stiff.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
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My ride has shelby drop, 1'' drop 620's that I cut 1/2 coil. Had to notch the frame about 1/2 inch so that the sway bar would not rub and squeek. Wish I had gone with 540 springs because it is too stiff.
Click the image to open in full size.
If it makes you feel any better, Opentracker told me 620s are the same as 560s. Apparently 560 is their TRUE rating.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:59 AM   #19
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That looks bad ***. what size wheels and tires u running on that. What setup in the rear.
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:20 AM   #20
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rear are 285/35 R18, fronts are 215/40 R17. Rear has a martz 4 link
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:20 AM
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