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S197 Handling Section For everything suspension related, inlcuding brakes, tires, and wheels.

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Old 03-09-2013, 11:53 AM   #111
eolson
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To bad Ford can't seem to want to put a watts link and 285/40/18 sticky rubber all around on their track pack cars. Then the 1LE would be bested I'd hope. Erik
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:16 PM   #112
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I totally agree. After reading up on teh S197 chassis on other various sties and forums, I have now come to the conclusion that the S197 has so much more handling potential locked away in it. The only thing holding back the potential is the OEM's lack of performance. It seems like Ford went too much on avoiding NVH instead of adding more to the performance side.
After reading up on Watt's Link here and in other places, I have come to the conclusion that it is a superior option to PHB. Though it adds considerable more weight to the car than PHB, at least that weight addition is to the rear of the car. That helps being the center of mass back, for a slight increase in better weight distribution (however slight that weight re-distribution might be).
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:56 PM   #113
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Actually JiM, the Pumpkin roll center watts link designs such as my Techco and the Whiteline adjustable roll center design are lighter than fords heavy stamped pig iron bar and brace. When I held my stock bar and brace after originally having my Steeda Adj. Pan hard and brace put on, those things were heavy.

Even my Steeda set up was 8 pounds heavier than my Techco Watts link kit. Some sheet metal is removed also when you get rid of the Pan hard bar set up. Erik
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:23 AM   #114
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Anybody know how much of the weight of Ford's PHB is from the NVH shot that it is filled with?

At 1700+ lbs or so rear weight, an 8 lb difference between the two Watts link designs sounds like a wash to me. Short of playing at the pointy end of some competition class, anyway.

I doubt there's even that much difference in the contributions to unsprung mass. Might as well worry about where on the axle the weight differences actually show up if we're going to worry about a small difference in the total.

I'd make the choice whether to go with a chassis or diff mounted main pivot based on other criteria, for which there probably isn't a fixed answer for all situations.


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Old 03-15-2013, 09:39 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eolson View Post
To bad Ford can't seem to want to put a watts link and 285/40/18 sticky rubber all around on their track pack cars. Then the 1LE would be bested I'd hope. Erik
stock springs and struts are soft and the brake dive and body roll with sticky rubber would be insane i would suspect. They need to make the stock struts superior and/or adjustable along with that change. I dont think it would have that much of an effect on the price of the car to put different struts in place of the stock.

ford could really easily improve on the track pack and not spend much $
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Last edited by Andy13186; 03-15-2013 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:28 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIM5.0 View Post
I totally agree. After reading up on teh S197 chassis on other various sties and forums, I have now come to the conclusion that the S197 has so much more handling potential locked away in it. The only thing holding back the potential is the OEM's lack of performance. It seems like Ford went too much on avoiding NVH instead of adding more to the performance side.
After reading up on Watt's Link here and in other places, I have come to the conclusion that it is a superior option to PHB. Though it adds considerable more weight to the car than PHB, at least that weight addition is to the rear of the car. That helps being the center of mass back, for a slight increase in better weight distribution (however slight that weight re-distribution might be).
You are correct in that the S197 has SO MUCH handling potential. There are very basic common fixes that the community has done a great job of exposing already.

OEM engineers will always be concerned with increased NVH, it's almost taboo to develop a high NVH vehicle from the factory. That being said, we (Whiteline) do not believe performance should be sacrificed with NVH. You can have all the performance you need without suffering from noise, vibration, and harshness.

Our Synthetic Elastomer Bushings allow us to design features into the bushings to give you all the performance capabilities and maintain OE ride integrity. We've really tried to engineer a 90/10 formula of 90% of the optimal performance at the compromise of 10% decreased ride quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Anybody know how much of the weight of Ford's PHB is from the NVH shot that it is filled with?

At 1700+ lbs or so rear weight, an 8 lb difference between the two Watts link designs sounds like a wash to me. Short of playing at the pointy end of some competition class, anyway.

I doubt there's even that much difference in the contributions to unsprung mass. Might as well worry about where on the axle the weight differences actually show up if we're going to worry about a small difference in the total.

I'd make the choice whether to go with a chassis or diff mounted main pivot based on other criteria, for which there probably isn't a fixed answer for all situations.


Norm
Thank you! and agreed 100% Tuning is often times a big compromise between features and performance. We've made compromises to some parts to allow other features to be more prominent. Sometimes adding on weight (sprung or non-sprung) results in increased structural integrity, durability, or better engineering designs.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:25 PM   #117
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Andy1386, Isn't the whole point that a "Track Pack" would imply that the driver would be willing to have a stiffer suspension and chassis, the improved springs, shocks, sway bars, adjustable caster/camber, Watts link and rear LCA's.? Plus wide properly off set wheels and 285/40/18's all around. Totally possible and doable by Ford.Not going to happen because it's Ford.
Mean while Chevy does exactly those things to the Camaro, and it works beautifully. Erik
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:25 PM
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