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S197 Handling Section For everything suspension related, inlcuding brakes, tires, and wheels.

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Old 04-13-2014, 08:01 AM   #11
audioAl
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I'm curious as well, the wheels and tire width are the next important decision. I am envious as I want to track my 3.7 but settle for "back roads" due to funds. Twisty's can help me train for the track and sometimes other cars challenge my Roanstang.
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Old 04-13-2014, 03:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
After you've done a couple of track days you may have a better idea concerning front vs rear sta-bar stiffness based on how the car feels midcorner in a long sweeper vs adding throttle coming out of the slower turns.

I'm a bit curious about what you'll be running for wheel width & offset and tire model & size.


Your home track would be NHIS? (it's still Bryar to old geezers like myself, NASCAR's redevelopment notwithstanding)


Norm
Wheels for track are the 2007-09 GT500 18x9.5. Ordered Nitto NT01 in 275/40/18 after getting good feedback in the forums.
Should be able to make minor understeer/oversteer adjustments with the Koni's as well. I think I will start with 1.75 turns in front and 1.25 in rear and go from there as the Steeda Boss Springs are fairly stiff.
Track key is ordered and supposed to ship late April.
I have quite a bit of track day and SCCA experience but have never driven a car with this amount of power on a track. Should be interesting. My SCCA car was Club FF so 110-115 horsepower in a 900 pound car. Not a lot of finesse required with the gas pedal as it was pretty much off or full on. The Mustang is a whole different story.
Home track was LRP until I retired and moved to NH last spring. I raced and track days at LRP, NHMS, Pocono, NJMP and Watkins Glen. Favorite track and best results were at Watkins Glen.I am doing track days at LPP on May 9 then the new (old) Thompson Speedway and at NHMS. Also used to host clients at Skip Barber events for my company so have done around 8 events with Skippy.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:59 AM   #13
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You also have some US/OS tweaking available with your Watts link, which affects rear axle steer in addition to roll center height. Fortunately in this chassis, moving the main pivot affects both of these attributes consistently to either tighten or loosen the handling.

If it helps any, I was running my Konis at about +1.5 front / +1.25 rear at NJMP with HOD a couple of weeks ago - I'm still on the OE springs but have somewhat stiffer sta-bars. Felt and behaved good enough in the dry (day 1), but probably a bit too much for day 2's thoroughly wet conditions (though not bad enough to be worth getting soaked making adjustments over, so I left them alone).

I'd be interested in your evaluation of those Boss springs in street driving with I'm presuming about 3/4 to a full turn turn less damping at both ends of the car. Thompson looks like a fun track, and it probably would have been my home track if I'd stayed in SE Massachusetts after I got my bachelor's. You wouldn't happen to know a Jeff Jones, would you?


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Old 04-14-2014, 09:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
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You also have some US/OS tweaking available with your Watts link, which affects rear axle steer in addition to roll center height. Fortunately in this chassis, moving the main pivot affects both of these attributes consistently to either tighten or loosen the handling.

If it helps any, I was running my Konis at about +1.5 front / +1.25 rear at NJMP with HOD a couple of weeks ago - I'm still on the OE springs but have somewhat stiffer sta-bars. Felt and behaved good enough in the dry (day 1), but probably a bit too much for day 2's thoroughly wet conditions (though not bad enough to be worth getting soaked making adjustments over, so I left them alone).

I'd be interested in your evaluation of those Boss springs in street driving with I'm presuming about 3/4 to a full turn turn less damping at both ends of the car. Thompson looks like a fun track, and it probably would have been my home track if I'd stayed in SE Massachusetts after I got my bachelor's. You wouldn't happen to know a Jeff Jones, would you?


Norm
The Boss 302 Steeda springs suit me perfectly. I was concerned they might be too stiff for our bad roads but I am very pleased. Very firm but still compliant with the Konis set at minimum for the street for now. The car no longer easily dives on braking or raises up on acceleration. I have not had any issue with axle hop any longer either. It was awful on the stock springs and shocks. What was Ford thinking?
I am running the Fays2 one notch below the center with the Steeda 1.4 inch lower rear. The Fays2 bars are dead level and I hear zero NVH. The whiteline trans mount I added a few days ago is proving to be a bit too much for me with significant increase in NVH. The Energy Suspension shifter bushing was a good move but I am not convinced on the trans bushing.
I don't know Jeff Jones.
I used to go to Thompson back in the seventies to watch a friend race his motorcycle there. Should be fun to revisit.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:27 AM   #15
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Here a couple of photos. The after pic is with snow....
My goal was track day improvement not a lower look. Went with the Steeda Boss 302 springs, Steeda HD plates, Koni Yellow, Ford Racing jounce, Fays2 Watts Link.
The springs and struts were a piece of cake to install with the car on jack stands. The Fays2 requires careful measurements. In the end I had an issue with the axle not being centered. A call to Jim, owner of Fays2, got a quick resolution to a problem he knew immediately. Jim said, "did you do the install on jack stands instead of weighted on ramps"? Yes; I did the install with the car on the jack stands due to wanting clearance due to my Track Pack finned differential cover. The unweighted install created the axle issue so I dropped the car onto the ramps, loosened the axle clamps, re-centered the car, tightened up and perfect. Thanks Jim.
I chose the Steeda HD mounts as I was told with a struts and springs set up the max negative camber of -2.3, without interference, was obtainable with the HD so a more exotic camber plate would be a waste.
Also installed the 2013-14 model JLT Brake Cooling kit. This is a very nice kit for a reasonable price. Install was a bit of a pain but not difficult if care is taken locating the holes you must cut in the lower fascia. You can see the intake in the lower fascia of the top photo.
No driving experience yet as the roads here in Northern NH are a mess for a while yet. I will report back once the car is on the road and again after my first track day; May 9.
Very pleased with all the pieces. Steeda customer service was exceptional. The Mustang aftermarket is highly competitive and everyone I have corresponded with and bought from has been great but Steeda's follow up and responsiveness was astonishing.
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
Now that I think about it I'm not sure if I measured my axle offset after I completed my Fays2 install. I installed mine on jack stands as well so I might need to double check it.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:33 AM   #16
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The Boss 302 Steeda springs suit me perfectly. I was concerned they might be too stiff for our bad roads but I am very pleased. Very firm but still compliant with the Konis set at minimum for the street for now. The car no longer easily dives on braking or raises up on acceleration. I have not had any issue with axle hop any longer either. It was awful on the stock springs and shocks. What was Ford thinking?
I am running the Fays2 one notch below the center with the Steeda 1.4 inch lower rear. The Fays2 bars are dead level and I hear zero NVH. The whiteline trans mount I added a few days ago is proving to be a bit too much for me with significant increase in NVH. The Energy Suspension shifter bushing was a good move but I am not convinced on the trans bushing.
I don't know Jeff Jones.
I used to go to Thompson back in the seventies to watch a friend race his motorcycle there. Should be fun to revisit.
I appreciate the feed back on those springs, as they're on my short list for whenever I do get around to swapping in stiffer springs. I'll probably end up shimming the ride heights back up a bit and doing some rear suspension geometry correction as well, but that's a discussion for another day.

Jeff Jones was just a shot in the dark, and with you being in New England, retired, and road course oriented there was a chance you might have met him at some point. I'd met him in the mid-sixties when I was on a co-op job assignment, and he'd been racing SCCA H-Production Sprites at the time.


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Old 04-15-2014, 02:41 PM   #17
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I almost sold my 1974 Hawke DL-12 to a 70 ish year old gentleman with a sprite. His home track was NHMS. I wonder if it was him. This goes back at about four years so he would be mid seventies now.
He did not buy it. He said his wife commented. "At 70 years old you want to strap yourself into an open wheel car? No way!!
'
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:58 PM   #18
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Default First track day on new suspension....

My first track day in this car is complete. What a great day. Only intermediate and advanced run groups with 3.5 hours of track time. Northeasttrackdays.com. Nice group.
The car was awesome. I spent the morning sessions getting to know the car and added speed in the afternoon sessions. The car was neutral handling except for one hairpin at turn three at NHMS that brought out some understeer. The understeer was easily dealt with by a bit more throttle to bring the rear end around. The Watts Link was superb as was the Koni Yellow and Steeda Boss 302 springs. The Fays2 watts link was a superb addition on this bumpy track. I was running -1.8 camber. Hot tire pressure was at 39 with the stock Pirelli PZero summer. Tire wear was uniform and the Pirellis were decent performers. Power oversteer was easy to control. After this one day I did not see a need to change the stock track pack sways.
By the last session of the day I had become very confident in the car and was able to finally able to overtake a competently driven 2014 Corvette Z51. He remarked that he tried to hang on but could not keep up. And his car had the super sticky Michelins.
Needless to say I am very pleased with the Mustang and the changes I made. I was a bit worried about my first track experience in a car this big and heavy but by the afternoon the cars size just disappeared. It was quite toss able and easy to manage even when I had it break loose more than I wanted. Looking forward to driving with the Nitto NT01 tires I ordered.
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:57 AM   #19
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By the last session of the day I had become very confident in the car and was able to finally able to overtake a competently driven 2014 Corvette Z51. He remarked that he tried to hang on but could not keep up. And his car had the super sticky Michelins.
Outstanding!

That right there is extremely impressive - I had the opportunity to drive a 2014 Corvette for one lap at Thunderbolt last month (with the Hooked On Driving people) so I've got some idea what he had available for braking and cornering grip.


You've probably tipped the balance on my spring choice to where I'll have to do some serious geometry and ride height evaluations. Dammit


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Old 04-22-2014, 08:45 PM   #20
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Outstanding!

That right there is extremely impressive - I had the opportunity to drive a 2014 Corvette for one lap at Thunderbolt last month (with the Hooked On Driving people) so I've got some idea what he had available for braking and cornering grip.


You've probably tipped the balance on my spring choice to where I'll have to do some serious geometry and ride height evaluations. Dammit


Norm
Note.....The set up is excellent but not stiff enough for a true track rat. Turn ten at NH is a slight downhill and a sharp right turn with a bump in the middle heading onto a short straight. This bump did cause the car to upset a little as it throws the car onto the drivers side suspension. The feeling was a bit of wallowing or softness that a still stiffer suspension would have dealt with better but I like the compromise I have.
I ended up for last two sessions with the Koni's at 2 turns front and 1.5 rear and I am still not sure where to set them for best results and I assume slightly different for different track? The setting are a work in progress.
NHMS requires trail braking coming off the long straight into the turn 1 and 2a and b esses. Top speed for me was redline in forth, just under 120 mph. Totally controlled and comfortable doing this even on the stock Pirellis. Nice.

Last edited by todcp; 04-22-2014 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:45 PM
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