chevykiller

Well after one year and 12,000 miles, over 500 rwhp has finally taken it's toll. At the 1/8 track Friday night and ran a 7.7 first pass (bad for me) and got much worst after that. By the fourth pass, I was running low 8's and called it quits. The car was losing everything in the top end. Was hitting the traps in low 90's mph and usually in the 103-104 range.

On the way home I was back on my street tune and the car ran fine but the race tune with the extra timing isn't working so I'm convinced she's not broke, but she's hurt and close to being broke. Thank goodness new motor is about ready. Just wanted to let you know that no matter how good your tune is, it is only a matter of time when running over 450 on the stock motor. I'll take it easy and no more racing till the switch. I'll take some pics of the internals when we do the swap and I'll bet we'll see some worn parts...lol

Also, I have talked to Mike at Powerhouse about his turbo car, Justin at JPC about his procharger, Doug at Vortech about their car, and a slew of other guys who are considered the best and fastests with these cars and everyone agrees with me that one of the biggest mistakes people make with these cars when they try for big HP is neglect gas. No matter what ANYONE tells you, if you are pushing 400+ HP on the stock motor, you have got to run race gas to have any length of time with these motors. 93 isn't going to cut it. You need 102+

I lasted a year and 100's of passes with this stock motor and the fact I ran VP110 with my race tune EVERY time is one of the key factors (and tune) that allowed me to do it. Just thought you might want to know.

Mark

Philostang

As always Mark, thank you for the helpful post.

Quick Q: You're running over 500 rwhp, so you estimate around 600 at the crank, no? The real question is in regards to your recommendations for stock motor and 93 octane--are those figures also in rwhp?

I ask because I'd like to set a goal of around 425 rwhp (figure 500 hp at the crank). I guess either way that puts me over the 400hp mark that you were suggesting for fuel (not so much a problem). But it's under the 450 w/respect to the stock motor limits you indicate (which determines whether or not I seek to go with a built engine first). So is the 450 limit a rwhp limit or an "at the crank" limit?

Best,
-j

hawgman

So now if we are going to run over 400rwhp we need race gas? I thought you said a few weeks back that 500 was safe it was just a matter of the tune and people were blowing because their tuner wasn't up to snuff.



So if race gas is needed for anything over 400, how is Roush and Saleen selling their SCed cars and not telling the end consumer this?

RED121572

Hmmmm....very informative and seems to be a well educated statement(s). [sm=thanx.gif]

Hmmm....well, I guess I may seriously consider NOT purchasing a blower and buying that Honda ST1300 instead.

Philostang

See, here's where the clarification I asked for comes into play. Like hawgman, I worry about what we're being sold (and getting ourselves into). Roush and Saleen are selling their SC systems at an advertised 400-470 hp rate. But to my knowledge, that advertised output is at the crank, not rwhp. So these would be coming up well under 400 rwhp (assuming the standard 15% loss on a manual), and thus under the recommendations CK made--IF he meant rwhp in his recommendations.

Clarification, clarification, clarification.....please help CK!

Best,
-j

The Ghost

After having a tune on my car for a year now, I have also had to re-load it from time to time. I notice a lot less seat of the pants and straining through the mid range. A re-load puts it right back on track. I just assumed the Spanish Oak processor was slowly putting everything back to the way it came.

MikeVistaBlue06

Sorry to hear the bad news.

I have been contemplating a new Kenne Bell SC.

If I do it, I think I will go with an intercooled 5psi only system that will give me 401rwhp.

Although they say you don't need the intercooler at 5psi, it is a good thing to have in order to keep the air temp lower to prevent detonation.

Good luck with your fixes and all.

Thx,

Mike

hawgman

I wasn't actually questioning whether it was rwhp or bhp. My statement about Roush and Saleen was sarcasm.

My point was that today we need race fuel to go over 400 hp. Few weeks back he said 500 was safe and that most tuners just don't know what they are doing. Kind of like how he is currently talking about installing line locks. Yet a couple of months ago when I said you could put line locks on the S197 cars he said that he would "bet the farm" that they don't work because of torque monitor problems. There are a couple of other examples I could come up with where he contradicts his word for the day. Don't get me wrong. We all know that Mark has pushed his car further than the majority of the people on this perticular board would ever consider. And yes, he has knowledge and resources available to him that most people on this perticular board do not have. And yes, he has technical and mechanical experience than most people on this perticular board do not possess. I just think he is a little quick in some of his declariations. And that when he makes them everyone seems to instantly take it as the gospel.

Every power adder company out there offers some form up upgrade to go over 400rwhp if not being able to do it with their base kit. Not a single one of them state anywhere that you need race gas to do it safely or recommend race gas to do it safely. If nothing else, I would at least expect Kenne Bell to mention this with thier kits considering how much they are reveared as the standards setters in the industry. Wouldn't ya think?

ThisBlood147

Well honestly I'm not too concerned about it. Consider that CK, like alot of guys around here, is building a car that runs at the track ALOT, I feel that I have a much broader margin of safety for my intended purposes. I'm sure I'll be just over 400rwhp after the blower is in.....but my car will be a street car ONLY. No frequent hard launches......no regular trips to 5K+ rpms.......just a nice kick-n-the-pants power boost behind my weekend toy (which also won't see alot of mileage). I've been talking to lots of guys that have gone with the setup I'm going with that have been running for many many miles without a single hiccup.......most of them pushing far more boost than I think I will ever attempt. Of course, if I WAS going to be building a track running machine....I might take CK's advice in a different light.

But I feel it depends on the blower, fuel setup, and intended applications that will ultimately determine what kind of engine upgrades one needs to do and what fuel they need to be running. JMO

Philostang

I'm in the same camp as ThisBlood--I'm not looking to push her has hard and as often as CK does. But I'd still like to consider the advice of those like CK.

But who treats his advice as gospel? I think all of us should treat Mark's post as just that, advice. I don't think Mark's word is gospel (notice I refer to his "suggestions" and "recommendations" --that's not gospel, that's one man's opinion), I just wanted to have a clearer sense of what exactly he WAS saying. Whether or not what he says is spot-on is an issue I'll decide myself after thinking it over, doing my own research, and talking with other knowledgable people.

I still appreciate his willingness to share his experience, insight, and advice--even if he does so a bit faster than others might do.

Best,
-j