HELP! Sudden Acceleration !!!
11-13-2006, 04:15 PM
#21
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 7
RE: HELP! Sudden Acceleration !!!
Would a size 18 shoe be a problem? Seriously, I wear a size 10.5 shoe but let me say a few things.
I went outside to duplicate the problem by purposely putting my foot between the brake and the gas pedals.
It's not impossible but it sure feels awkward. True, both times it has happened I had my foot on the brake.
I really hope that is it, I've been driving cars for 36 years and this is the FIRST time it has happen to me to place my foot between the brake and gas pedals (if that is what i did)
God knows how many times I've ever jumped in the car in a hurry and not do that!
A month ago I was creeping up to the McDonalds pay window, had just stopped and handed my money to the cashier when the engine began racing!
Yesterday, I was backing out to move the car over because I had my kid's car blocked in the driveway. Wasn't in a hurry then.
I'm going to pay more attention to my foot placement and I'm not going to let anyone else drive the car for a while.
I went to the dealer this morning (Monday is a bad day to go) i talked to a rep and they said they would connect the car to the computer and run some diagnostics, check for codes and connect a data recorder and drive the car around for 5-10 miles. Unless they can duplicate it they won't do anything. I'm taking the car back there next week when I have day off and let them check it out. In the meantime, I'm going to call the NTSB and file a report just so I have an official record on file.
thanks for the comments!
Fred
I went outside to duplicate the problem by purposely putting my foot between the brake and the gas pedals.
It's not impossible but it sure feels awkward. True, both times it has happened I had my foot on the brake.
I really hope that is it, I've been driving cars for 36 years and this is the FIRST time it has happen to me to place my foot between the brake and gas pedals (if that is what i did)
God knows how many times I've ever jumped in the car in a hurry and not do that!
A month ago I was creeping up to the McDonalds pay window, had just stopped and handed my money to the cashier when the engine began racing!
Yesterday, I was backing out to move the car over because I had my kid's car blocked in the driveway. Wasn't in a hurry then.
I'm going to pay more attention to my foot placement and I'm not going to let anyone else drive the car for a while.
I went to the dealer this morning (Monday is a bad day to go) i talked to a rep and they said they would connect the car to the computer and run some diagnostics, check for codes and connect a data recorder and drive the car around for 5-10 miles. Unless they can duplicate it they won't do anything. I'm taking the car back there next week when I have day off and let them check it out. In the meantime, I'm going to call the NTSB and file a report just so I have an official record on file.
thanks for the comments!
Fred
11-13-2006, 04:18 PM
#22
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 571
RE: HELP! Sudden Acceleration !!!
ORIGINAL: myredgt
Have you read any of the posts......?
Juntech
Yikes, what's this all about?!
Yikes, what's this all about?!
So is it an ECU problem or the drive by throttle malfunction or both?
11-13-2006, 05:17 PM
#25
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 7
RE: HELP! Sudden Acceleration !!!
Called the NTSB, they won't take a complaint until the dealer has looked at the car.
I searched the NTSB for complaints and found...
Make: FORD
Model: MUSTANG (and GT's)
Year: 2006
Complaint Number: 10171025
Summary:
APPLYING QUICK ACCELERATION IN ORDER TO PASS OTHER VEHICLES CAUSES THE THROTTLE TO STICK IN MY CAR. I HAVE APPLY HARD BRAKING AND TURN THE IGNITION KEY OFF TO GAIN CONTROL OF MY CAR. *NM
Make: FORD
Model: MUSTANG
Year: 2006
Complaint Number: 10166998
Summary:
DT*: THE CONTACT STATED WHILE ACCELERATING FROM AN STOPPED POSITION, THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED FROM 50-90 MPH ON ITS OWN. BOTH FEET WERE APPLIED TO THE BRAKE PEDAL AND THE ACCELERATION STOPPED. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE DEALERSHIP WHERE THE PROBLEM COULD NOT BE DUPLICATED. THIS HAPPENED A SECOND TIME AND THE DEALERSHIP WAS STILL UNABLE TO DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM.
Make: FORD
Model: MUSTANG
Year: 2006
Complaint Number: 10155529
Summary:
TOOK DELIVERY OF MUSTANG PREMIUM CONVERTIBLE (V6) ON 1/6/2006. DROVE HOME 17 MILES. WHILE ACCELERATING FROM A FULL STOP AND TURNING ONTO SIDE STREET, THE ENGINE APPEARED TO ACCELERATE AND THEN STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TURN IN THE MIDDLE OF ONCOMING TRAFFIC. FORTUNATELY NO ACCIDENT OCCURRED. DURING SUBSEQUENT DRIVES, ENGINE APPEARS TO ACCELERATE FROM A FULL STOP BUT THEN STALLS. IF ACCELERATOR IS PRESSED QUICKLY ENOUGH, THE ENGINE DOES NOT STOP; HOWEVER, IT MAY EXHIBIT THE STALL A SECOND TIME. DEALER INDICATES THAT NO INFORMATION IS RECORDED ON COMPUTER INDICATING REASON FOR FAILURE. THEY CANNOT DUPLICATE THE FAILURE. NEXT STEP IS TO INSTALL A "BLACK BOX" TO RECORD EVENT ACTIVITY DURING THE STALL. THIS DOES NOT OCCUR WHEN THE ENGINE IS COLD. IT ALSO IS VERY INTERMITTENT BUT, IF IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, IT WILL BE FOLLOWING A FULL STOP. I DO NOT FEEL SAFE IN THIS VEHICLE. THE FAILURE CAN OCCUR DURING A TURN ACROSS TRAFFIC OR WHILE MOVING STRAIGHT AHEAD FROM THE STOP - EITHER OF WHICH COULD RESULT IN AN ACCIDENT. *JB
Make: FORD
Model: MUSTANG
Year: 2006
Complaint Number: 10155220
Summary:
DT*: THE CONTACT STATED WHILE EXITING THE INTERSTATE, AFTER DECELERATING, THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL WAS DEPRESSED AND THE VEHICLE LOST POWER. THE VEHICLE HESITATED THEN SUDDENLY SURGED FORWARD. THIS OCCURRED ON THREE OCCASIONS, THE DEALERSHIP WAS UNABLE TO DETERMINE A PROBLEM. UPDATED 5/2/2006 - EACH TIME THIS PROBLEM OCCURRED THE VEHICLE HAD BEEN DRIVING AT HIGHWAY SPEED FOR OVER 2 HOURS. *NM
Make: FORD
Model: MUSTANG
Year: 2006
Complaint Number: 10150456
Summary:
2006 FORD MUSTANG EXHIBITING HESITATION UPON ACCELERATION ON FOUR DIFFERENT OCCASIONS WHILE PULLING OUT INTO TRAFFIC. FEELS AS IF CAR HAS STALLED THEN SLING SHOTS CAR INTO TRAFFIC. EACH INCIDENT NEARLY RESULTING IN ACCIDENTS. DEALERSHIP CAN'T DUPLICATE PROBLEM AND THEREFORE CAN'T MAKE ANY REPAIRS TO CAR. NO SENSOR ERRORS OR MESSAGES WHEN CHECKED, BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A MALFUNCTION WITH ELECTRONIC &/OR SENSORS FROM GAS PEDAL TO ENGINE. *JB
Make: FORD
Model: MUSTANG GT
Year: 2006
Complaint Number: 10167713
Summary:
OUR FORD MUSTANG GT THAT WAS PURCHASED FOR OUR 17 YR OLD DAUGHTER WAS PURCHASED 2-21-2006 IT HAD ITS FIRST PROBLEMS AT 629 MILES ON 3-4-2006 THE DEALERSHIP REPLACED SOME FOLLOWERS AND SOME LIFTERS AND SOME CAMSHAFT PARTS. WE'VE BEEN TOLD ALL SHOULD BE REPLACED THE WHOLE BANK. DEALER WON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT CAR STARTED SMOKING A WEEK LATER AND MAKING TICKING NOISE AGAIN. DEALER SAID IT DIDN'T DO IT THERE SO NOTHING WAS DONE. NEXT, CAR STARTED HESITATING AFTER DRIVING ON HWY COUPLE HRS. DEALERSHIP REPLACED FUEL PUMP AND GEAR BOX WAS HOT AND RATTLING SO THEY REPLACED IT. THEN CAR ACCELERATED ON ITS OWN FROM 50 TO 90 MILES HR. DEALERSHIP COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING THAT WAS AT 8300 MILES NOW AT 9700 MILES CAR HAS TAKING OFF AGAIN FROM 40 TO 80 WHEN OUR DAUGHTER PUT IT IN NEUTRAL AND COAST TO SIDE OF ROAD OUR DAUGHTER AND HER FRIENDS ARE TO AFRAID TO DRIVE IT NOW AND ITS BEEN AT DEALERSHIP FOR 2 FULL WEEKS ALSO THE PAINT ON THE PASSENGER REAR FENDER IS BUBBLING OFF THE CAR. SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET HURT, PROBABLY ALREADY HAVE DIED BUT KNOW ONE HAS CHECKED INTO IT. SORRY ABOUT WORDING YOU ONLY GET 2000 WORDS TO DESCRIBE EVERYTHING. LIKE YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW IF YOUR RESTRICTING THE AMOUNT OF WORDS. *JB
Thats just 2006 models and only the last one is a GT (whats going on with the last one, replacing lifters and followers etc with 629 miles!!!) None of these are exactly what i expierenced but just wanted to make you all aware of these!
I'll let you know what the dealer finds out next week!
Fred
I searched the NTSB for complaints and found...
Make: FORD
Model: MUSTANG (and GT's)
Year: 2006
Complaint Number: 10171025
Summary:
APPLYING QUICK ACCELERATION IN ORDER TO PASS OTHER VEHICLES CAUSES THE THROTTLE TO STICK IN MY CAR. I HAVE APPLY HARD BRAKING AND TURN THE IGNITION KEY OFF TO GAIN CONTROL OF MY CAR. *NM
Make: FORD
Model: MUSTANG
Year: 2006
Complaint Number: 10166998
Summary:
DT*: THE CONTACT STATED WHILE ACCELERATING FROM AN STOPPED POSITION, THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED FROM 50-90 MPH ON ITS OWN. BOTH FEET WERE APPLIED TO THE BRAKE PEDAL AND THE ACCELERATION STOPPED. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE DEALERSHIP WHERE THE PROBLEM COULD NOT BE DUPLICATED. THIS HAPPENED A SECOND TIME AND THE DEALERSHIP WAS STILL UNABLE TO DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM.
Make: FORD
Model: MUSTANG
Year: 2006
Complaint Number: 10155529
Summary:
TOOK DELIVERY OF MUSTANG PREMIUM CONVERTIBLE (V6) ON 1/6/2006. DROVE HOME 17 MILES. WHILE ACCELERATING FROM A FULL STOP AND TURNING ONTO SIDE STREET, THE ENGINE APPEARED TO ACCELERATE AND THEN STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TURN IN THE MIDDLE OF ONCOMING TRAFFIC. FORTUNATELY NO ACCIDENT OCCURRED. DURING SUBSEQUENT DRIVES, ENGINE APPEARS TO ACCELERATE FROM A FULL STOP BUT THEN STALLS. IF ACCELERATOR IS PRESSED QUICKLY ENOUGH, THE ENGINE DOES NOT STOP; HOWEVER, IT MAY EXHIBIT THE STALL A SECOND TIME. DEALER INDICATES THAT NO INFORMATION IS RECORDED ON COMPUTER INDICATING REASON FOR FAILURE. THEY CANNOT DUPLICATE THE FAILURE. NEXT STEP IS TO INSTALL A "BLACK BOX" TO RECORD EVENT ACTIVITY DURING THE STALL. THIS DOES NOT OCCUR WHEN THE ENGINE IS COLD. IT ALSO IS VERY INTERMITTENT BUT, IF IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, IT WILL BE FOLLOWING A FULL STOP. I DO NOT FEEL SAFE IN THIS VEHICLE. THE FAILURE CAN OCCUR DURING A TURN ACROSS TRAFFIC OR WHILE MOVING STRAIGHT AHEAD FROM THE STOP - EITHER OF WHICH COULD RESULT IN AN ACCIDENT. *JB
Make: FORD
Model: MUSTANG
Year: 2006
Complaint Number: 10155220
Summary:
DT*: THE CONTACT STATED WHILE EXITING THE INTERSTATE, AFTER DECELERATING, THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL WAS DEPRESSED AND THE VEHICLE LOST POWER. THE VEHICLE HESITATED THEN SUDDENLY SURGED FORWARD. THIS OCCURRED ON THREE OCCASIONS, THE DEALERSHIP WAS UNABLE TO DETERMINE A PROBLEM. UPDATED 5/2/2006 - EACH TIME THIS PROBLEM OCCURRED THE VEHICLE HAD BEEN DRIVING AT HIGHWAY SPEED FOR OVER 2 HOURS. *NM
Make: FORD
Model: MUSTANG
Year: 2006
Complaint Number: 10150456
Summary:
2006 FORD MUSTANG EXHIBITING HESITATION UPON ACCELERATION ON FOUR DIFFERENT OCCASIONS WHILE PULLING OUT INTO TRAFFIC. FEELS AS IF CAR HAS STALLED THEN SLING SHOTS CAR INTO TRAFFIC. EACH INCIDENT NEARLY RESULTING IN ACCIDENTS. DEALERSHIP CAN'T DUPLICATE PROBLEM AND THEREFORE CAN'T MAKE ANY REPAIRS TO CAR. NO SENSOR ERRORS OR MESSAGES WHEN CHECKED, BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A MALFUNCTION WITH ELECTRONIC &/OR SENSORS FROM GAS PEDAL TO ENGINE. *JB
Make: FORD
Model: MUSTANG GT
Year: 2006
Complaint Number: 10167713
Summary:
OUR FORD MUSTANG GT THAT WAS PURCHASED FOR OUR 17 YR OLD DAUGHTER WAS PURCHASED 2-21-2006 IT HAD ITS FIRST PROBLEMS AT 629 MILES ON 3-4-2006 THE DEALERSHIP REPLACED SOME FOLLOWERS AND SOME LIFTERS AND SOME CAMSHAFT PARTS. WE'VE BEEN TOLD ALL SHOULD BE REPLACED THE WHOLE BANK. DEALER WON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT CAR STARTED SMOKING A WEEK LATER AND MAKING TICKING NOISE AGAIN. DEALER SAID IT DIDN'T DO IT THERE SO NOTHING WAS DONE. NEXT, CAR STARTED HESITATING AFTER DRIVING ON HWY COUPLE HRS. DEALERSHIP REPLACED FUEL PUMP AND GEAR BOX WAS HOT AND RATTLING SO THEY REPLACED IT. THEN CAR ACCELERATED ON ITS OWN FROM 50 TO 90 MILES HR. DEALERSHIP COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING THAT WAS AT 8300 MILES NOW AT 9700 MILES CAR HAS TAKING OFF AGAIN FROM 40 TO 80 WHEN OUR DAUGHTER PUT IT IN NEUTRAL AND COAST TO SIDE OF ROAD OUR DAUGHTER AND HER FRIENDS ARE TO AFRAID TO DRIVE IT NOW AND ITS BEEN AT DEALERSHIP FOR 2 FULL WEEKS ALSO THE PAINT ON THE PASSENGER REAR FENDER IS BUBBLING OFF THE CAR. SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET HURT, PROBABLY ALREADY HAVE DIED BUT KNOW ONE HAS CHECKED INTO IT. SORRY ABOUT WORDING YOU ONLY GET 2000 WORDS TO DESCRIBE EVERYTHING. LIKE YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW IF YOUR RESTRICTING THE AMOUNT OF WORDS. *JB
Thats just 2006 models and only the last one is a GT (whats going on with the last one, replacing lifters and followers etc with 629 miles!!!) None of these are exactly what i expierenced but just wanted to make you all aware of these!
I'll let you know what the dealer finds out next week!
Fred
11-13-2006, 05:26 PM
#27
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,516
RE: HELP! Sudden Acceleration !!!
Yeah...especially if our cars decide to do it at a crosswalk........[sm=smiley18.gif]
ORIGINAL: hammeron
thanks for keeping us updated....i'm pretty sure
a lot of us are interested in this issue....
thanks for keeping us updated....i'm pretty sure
a lot of us are interested in this issue....
11-13-2006, 09:38 PM
#28
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 305
RE: HELP! Sudden Acceleration !!!
ORIGINAL: shaners90lxhatch
I am extemely hesitant to reply on this subject but my motivation for such is your concern of safety and not my desire to ease your (and everyone elses) mind somewhat....
I know you can swear that your foot was not on the accelerator, but consider the fact that the return force of the brake is much greater than that of the accelerator and because of such, it is possible that if your foot is depressing both pedals simultaneously - you may not feel the accel underneath your foot. Although electronic throttle puts control of the throttle plate in the PCM's hands, it can not and will not modulate the throttle unless three completely different and opposing travel signals from the accel pedal move together. It is virtually impossible for there to be three electrical malfunctions to happen at the exact moment in time and happen in a manner that makes the pcm think you have your foot on the gas. The system is actually too sensitive (Anyone ever had a "failsafe mode" event for no obvious reason?). The failsafe modes will become active if ANY of the tp, etc or app signals becomes out of a specific range even for a split second. Now, I really don't want to discount your concern. You should definately have this investiaged by your dealer. However, the previous poster is right in the respect that the dealer will likely not be able to duplicate the issue and will only have a VDR as a second option. A VDR is a Vehicle Data Recorder and is operated by yourself by pushing a button. This will record all the information the PCM sees during that time but it will require your ability to recreate the issue as well. Obviously this is not an ideal situation, but it is the only option if you want the dealer to take your complaint seriously, or make ANY type of repair attempt. They should remove your floormat alltogether as well. Just FYI, this is not something completely unheard of. All manufacturers deal with this regardless of the throttle contol, but it obviously becomes a sticky situation when it is computer controlled. Of all the people who have complained of similar issues, Ford has never had a confirmed case of self accel. All recordings sent back show that the brake and accel pedal move at the same time. Ever wonder why this only happens when you are braking and not any other time? It is due to pedal placement and the way you drive. I drive like that too, I pivit my right foot on my heel instead of lifting it completely off the floor and moving it over to brake. I have a size 12 shoe and have to be careful even in my manual 91 toyota because if I brake too hard, the gas pedal gets some and conseqently the engine will rev up sometimes during panic stops. Again, I wanted to give you the explaination your dealer will get when they call me about your concern and prepare you for the most likely outcome of your first visit. I hope for everyone's sake that the issue is handled maturely and seriously and I will look foreward to the result of your actions should you feel the need to post them. Good luck, buddy.
I am extemely hesitant to reply on this subject but my motivation for such is your concern of safety and not my desire to ease your (and everyone elses) mind somewhat....
I know you can swear that your foot was not on the accelerator, but consider the fact that the return force of the brake is much greater than that of the accelerator and because of such, it is possible that if your foot is depressing both pedals simultaneously - you may not feel the accel underneath your foot. Although electronic throttle puts control of the throttle plate in the PCM's hands, it can not and will not modulate the throttle unless three completely different and opposing travel signals from the accel pedal move together. It is virtually impossible for there to be three electrical malfunctions to happen at the exact moment in time and happen in a manner that makes the pcm think you have your foot on the gas. The system is actually too sensitive (Anyone ever had a "failsafe mode" event for no obvious reason?). The failsafe modes will become active if ANY of the tp, etc or app signals becomes out of a specific range even for a split second. Now, I really don't want to discount your concern. You should definately have this investiaged by your dealer. However, the previous poster is right in the respect that the dealer will likely not be able to duplicate the issue and will only have a VDR as a second option. A VDR is a Vehicle Data Recorder and is operated by yourself by pushing a button. This will record all the information the PCM sees during that time but it will require your ability to recreate the issue as well. Obviously this is not an ideal situation, but it is the only option if you want the dealer to take your complaint seriously, or make ANY type of repair attempt. They should remove your floormat alltogether as well. Just FYI, this is not something completely unheard of. All manufacturers deal with this regardless of the throttle contol, but it obviously becomes a sticky situation when it is computer controlled. Of all the people who have complained of similar issues, Ford has never had a confirmed case of self accel. All recordings sent back show that the brake and accel pedal move at the same time. Ever wonder why this only happens when you are braking and not any other time? It is due to pedal placement and the way you drive. I drive like that too, I pivit my right foot on my heel instead of lifting it completely off the floor and moving it over to brake. I have a size 12 shoe and have to be careful even in my manual 91 toyota because if I brake too hard, the gas pedal gets some and conseqently the engine will rev up sometimes during panic stops. Again, I wanted to give you the explaination your dealer will get when they call me about your concern and prepare you for the most likely outcome of your first visit. I hope for everyone's sake that the issue is handled maturely and seriously and I will look foreward to the result of your actions should you feel the need to post them. Good luck, buddy.
11-13-2006, 11:14 PM
#30
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 70
RE: HELP! Sudden Acceleration !!!
I believe you are referring to the problem Ford had with thier cars jumping out of park. One of my buddies almost got fired over that. It was years later when the problem was brought to the forefront that people finially belived his story. ...He did leave it in Park!
