scramblr

You can get to ~340rwhp N/A. Read below.

http://www.brenspeed.com/tech/compcams.html

Sleeper05

ill be making well over 400 at the crank on tuesday. at the wheels 400 would be about right for full bolt-ons (what i have), cams, and heads, with a really good tune.


Quick S--Full bolt ons costs significantly more than you are estimating. Trust me, I have everything and then some.

Here's a quick break down of full bolt ons (JUST PARTS):
headers/midpipe/axleback: 1600+
gears(installed): 500
intake: 200+
pullies: 250
eh20: 350
alum ds: 700
tires: 400
tb: 350
CMRC: 100
dyno tune+tuner: 600

Now you are at $5000, and still on bone stock suspension, and without consideration for install, maintenance (modded cars DO have more problems), and all the style mods that I KNOW you want to do as well. I'm not saying don't do it, because I have and I love my car to death...just don't go into it lying to yourself about how much it will cost. If you truly want a "full" bolt-on car, put $10000 aside to do it, and do it right the first time. If you want to go S/C, then don't lie to yourself either about getting a "$4400 Vortech blower, because it WILL cost you $6500-$7000 when all is said and done, and there is no denying that fact, but you will have a faster car, and some extra cash to do exhaust and gears, which will net more gain than on an N/A car.

bl1nk

Prices are padded for wcs.

305 crank - 265 wheels - stock

+25@w - CAI and tune $700
+20@w - longtubes $1500
+25@w - cams $1500
+5@w - O/R X $250
+10@w - UDPs $250
+10@w - CMCV delete $200
+10@w - alum D/S $1000
+20@w - FAST intake $TBA

+125 rwhp with bolt ons, for under $6000

With all that youre looking at roughly 390 @ the rear wheels. Lets drop it down to 365 @ the wheels, because hp doesnt stack. Keep in mind this is just an estimated guess, so it will vary. And though the FAST intake hasnt come out (I believe its due this spring), theyre claiming its +40rwhp, so I went with 1/2 of what they claim to be safe. Im sure you can get a little closer to 400 by doing some stuff like port and polish and some other things I dont know about. And like all the knowledgable members say... all that power is wasted if you cant lay it to the pavement. Suspension mods are a must, whether you go N/A or FI... our cars have a hard time just getting our stock hp to the ground.

CrazyAl

I think your header numbers are a little high. I have not seen more than 25 HP with longtubes on the dyno. And that was including an offroad X-pipe. If you're going to list them seperatley, put 20 for the headers and 5 for the pipe.

I also have serious doubt about the intake manifold being worth 20 HP in conjunction with cams. For example, you can get good gains with cams or heads. But if you do cams AND heads, they don't just add up. For example, if we assume cams are 30 HP and heads are 40 HP, if you do both will you get 70? Heck no. More like 45, becasue they are both addressing the exact same thing. JDM claims that their heads (with oversize valves) flow so good that cams are basically useless with them.

Then again, your conclusion is pretty much correct. Even if we assume the gains from the FAST manifold are minimal, There's a few other untapped things as well: heads, lightweight flywheel, lightweight pressure plate, lighter wheels, and so forth.


That being said, I do think it's possible to hit 400 RWHP N/A. However, it won't be cheap.

Something else to consider here is the labor. You can get the cam kit for $1000. But the labor to install them is 15 hours!! Longtubes are 5 hours. Even if you assume the other stuff can be installed "free" while you're doing the big jobs, you're still looking at 20+ hours of labor. At $75 per hour, thats another $1500 to consider. Not even a SC install will be that expensive.

Then again, there are other factors to consider too. Generally your insurance will go up if you have a supercharger or nitrous. A N/A motor doesn't have that issue. Plus, you get the bragging rights of having 400 ponies with no blower. Also if you do your own installation the net price could vary greatly.

bl1nk

^Thanks, Ill edit.

And I didnt even know there were different heads out for our cars. [8D]

Shaguarama

Thanks for all the info guys. My suspension is not stock at all though; I have the full Eiback sportline kit which includes sway bars, springs and shocks. I also have a watts link which really helps to plant the rear end in corners and from a launch. I will probably get new LCA's as well. I was only curious about the bolt-ons and still want to get the whipple. I have done a ton of research on all of this and figured I'd just ask and see if anyone was actually able to do it or not. I already know that Hp = $ and there is NO way around it. All your input is greatly appriciated. -Andrew

Daniel60

All Motor Guru's' why can't Ford make a mustang stock with these cams? Is money really the reason? What does these cams do that the stock ones' don't?

dkano

Thanks for that list Sleeper, bl1nkage and CrazyAl. I should print that whole list in big bold letters and post them somewhere around here, just to remind myself not to go trying to make big HP N/A, thinking that it'll be cheaper. It just seems cheaper because you don't spend it all at once, you spend a $1000 here and there and before you know it you've spent more than $5000 and you're making maybe between 350-370HP, could be lower! I've spent more than a $1000 just trying to get the right gears, now I'm moving down from 4.10s to 3.73s (gear whine, I have an auto, it's my daily driver, it'll start snowing here soon).
[sm=rant.gif] [sm=smiley4.gif]

bl1nk

I feel ya there! So you dont like the 4.10s with your auto? And the whine is really bad?

dkano

yeah, not as bad as when I had the Motive 3.90s but still pretty bad, or just annoying. Sometimes I don't even turn the radio on when I'm driving to work because I like how the borlas sound, gear whine is just not something I like listening to!
Other than that, last Feebruary when I first got the car and we got the last snow storm I remember how bad it was to drive my car in the snow so might as well get rid of them before we start getting snow here.