Gloves

I am wondering if I’m able to make my suspension more stiff without lowering my ride. Also is there a way to do it without buying new parts and just adjusting the stock parts?

howarmat

Cant do it with stock parts. Use a search with CrazyAl as the poster and suspension as topic and you will find everything you need.

555*

What would be the point? Ride like crap without the added benefits of a lower center of gravity?

TinPony

Just put the rubber spacers (wedges) in the the coils, like NASCAR

Gloves

Tin Pony,
is this what i use between my coils?
http://www.autoanything.com/suspensi...aspx?kc=ff1752

Norm Peterson

When you lower a car that has MacStruts, the roll center drops faster than the CG does and you tend to get more roll rather than less, assuming that the lowering and stock height springs are the same rate (and that is more or lessthe way I understand the original post).

The "weight transfer" (lateral load transfer is its technical name) is less, as your post hints at. But with more roll comes more camber loss, and being lower means you are going to lose it faster. End result is that you also have less cornering grip to work with. Overall, it'll depend on alignment settings and tire properties as installed on whatever width wheels.

Combining the stiffer springs with the OE ride height keeps you closer to the better part of the camber curve, and you'll gain grip (on edit; as long as you're on reasonably smooth pavement, anyway).

Slightly to somewhat stiffer springs are not as bad-riding as many people think. One of my cars wears springs that are about 60% stiffer in front and 35% stiffer in the rear than it's OE sport suspension springs were- and it's daily driveably just about anywhere.

Much more detail usually makes this discussion run MUCH longer.


Norm

Gloves

Norm, excllent!
Can you suggest any afternaket "stiffer" springs?

I just hate turning and "squishing" into and out of a turn. I belive becoming more go-kart like is better. Reduce the squish and that automatically impoves handling. I already scrape when driving, so lowering isn't an option, i like the stock height, looks more 'muscle' instead of the 'street' look when lowered.

TinPony

That will do what you are looking for, hope you like the ride

Norm Peterson

I've always worked this sort of thing knowing the rate I've got and the rates that might be available. Unfortunately I don't have any spring catalogs (i.e. Moog) that are recent enough for this application. Basically, I'd need to know a few things about both sets of springs (either rate or OD/wire diameter/number of active coils,free length, and loaded length) and the car (corner weight, suspension motion ratios) first.

The problem with most aftermarket springs is that the only specs most of those companies make public is how much the estimated drop will be (and say things like "proprietary rate" when it comes to the real tech). Many are progressive rate, which might be OK for your application but is not necessarily the hot tip if you get seriously involved in autocrossing or road course running.

Circle track springs for the front (for example) are available in rates anywhere from about 500 lb/in to beyond 1500 in 50 lb/in steps, but which would probably require shimming or some sort of ride height adjustment mechanism, as they only come in a couple of different lengths. Coilovers offer even closer steps up through 750 lb/in or soand come in a variety of lengths (at least in 8", 10", 12", 14"), but may involve some custom fabrication.

TinPony - I think that some lowering springs, in combination with little or no thought given to the shocks,have given all stiffer springs a bad rap. Actually, "lowering springs" typically aren't stiff enough - to keep the car off the bump stops given that the lowering has reduced the available travel before you dohit the stops. That, and shocks that aren't properly valved for the situation means that you either have too much total force from the spring plus the shock (too much bump damping) or you regularly slam into the stops (not enough bump damping). I don't think many enthusiasts would have an issue with 650 lb/in conventional front springs on a 3500 lb car with about an 0.5 motion ratio, and perhaps 150 in the rear with a motion ratio of 1.0 (stick axle with springs connected to or sitting on the axle tubes). For comparison, stock rates on such a car might be 400 and 120.


Norm

RodeoFlyer

Bilstein HD shocks/struts - they're for stock - mild drop ride height.

i'd get an adjustable rear bar before anything to get rid of some understeer