Lowering Questions
09-26-2007, 05:18 PM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 428
Lowering Questions
I hope this is not a double post! I am seriously interested in lowering my car! I plan on keeping the stock wheels/tires on for now! I have read many posts and would like help in determining what correct parts are needed and why in order to lower my car safely. I dont need name brands just what process is needed and explanations on what the parts do. Example, Panhard bar, i realize it is "recommended" but is it needed and why. I know it help keep the rear centered but how does it do that?
I am sure everyone will have an opinion and a budget may prevent certain people from changing parts for better ones. I am just looking for the Proper way to lower the car. Thanks.
I am sure everyone will have an opinion and a budget may prevent certain people from changing parts for better ones. I am just looking for the Proper way to lower the car. Thanks.
09-26-2007, 05:23 PM
#2
RE: Lowering Questions
CrazyAl says
Sway Bars:
The front is quite good stock. There are many, many, things that I would replace before the front sway bar. In fact, I'd put the front sway bar at the very bottom of the "suspension mod list". The rear, however, is an excellent thing to upgrade. A stiffer rear bar will help keep both tires planted when you hit the gas on the strip or coming out of a corner. It will also balance out the steering bias (understeer) the car has from the factory. I like the Steeda and the BMR ones the best, but there are many choices here: Steeda, BMR, Ford, Roush, Eibach, etc. I left my front stock and got a Steeda rear--I normally don't like Steeda's billet aluminum parts, but their rear sway bar with the billet mounting bars is a great product. The billet bars are much stronger than the flimsy OEM ones. Another option would be to find a Shelby rear sway bar, as Ford increased the size of the rear bar on the GT500. Several companies sell a kit that has both front and rear sway bars. Personally I do not like these. I would stick with the rear ONLY. Stiffening the front istypically a DOWNGRADE because it will prevent you from eliminating the oversteer problem.
Al's Pick: Leave the front stock. Either Steeda or BMR rear.
Strut tower bars:
The theory of this product is that it ties together the front strut towers, reducing body flex. The S197 chassis is very stiff--espeically at the front strut towers. Consequently this isn't really needed. In my opinion, this is a mainly costmetic mod. There are tons of choices out there as this is a popular "me too" product that was popularized with ricers--becasue of this there's flood of them on the market. The the BMR is the strongest. If you seriously want one that's functional, that's what I'd get. The Steeda one with the billet ends is a joke and has an insane price tag. No thanks! Note that some strut tower bars can interfere with superchargers or plenum covers, so be careful of that.
Al's Pick: none. leave it stock and save your $$$ and weight for mods that really count.
Shocks:
If you want good shocks there are many options: FRPP and Saleen are a good match with lowering springs. But, the hot ticket is the Toicko D-specs. These are fully adjustable, so you can set up your car for street, road race, drag, or whatever you feel like. They also have very good valving, which was designed in part by Steeda. You can adjust them very quickly (less than 5 min for all 4 shocks), which gives you a lot of options. If you have to take a long trip with the family you can soften 'em up and make the car ride like a cadillac. Stiffen up all four when you drive in the twisties. You can leave the rear stiff and soften the front for better transfer on launch when you hit the drag strip....these are just some examples, but suffice it to say the D-specs are very very nice. Check with Brenspeed for the best price that I know of. Last time I checked they were $540 for all four, with free shipping!
Al's Pick: D-specs.
Springs:
Many choices here. Springs are mainly a cosmetic thing, but a mild drop will lower the center of gravity of the car and that can help cornering. All of the major brands are good (Eibach, Ford, Steeda, Roush, BMR). I'd make a choice depending on how much lowering you want. The most popular for mild drops are the Roush and the Steela "ultralite" springs. The Eibach Pro-Kit is really popular too. Roush will sell you sets of just fronts or just rears. Some guys, myself included, lowered just the rear of the car. I think that's nice if you want a very mild drop and you want to be careful about ground clearance. Beware the Eibach "sportline" kit. This is a VERY low drop that is impractical on a street-driven car, and is sure to cause headaches with alignment, bump-steer, etc. I would only consider the sportlines if you want a "Show" car and don't plan on driving it hard.
Al's Pick: any major brand
Coil Overs:
If you want, you can replace the stock shocks and springs with a coil over setup. Coil-overs combine springs and shocks into a single package. They are usually adjustable for both ride height and for damping (like the D-specs). These are very expensive, but have the advantage of letting you adjust the ride height exactly where you want it. I wouldn't buy these unless you are a very serious road-course racer and need to get everything absoloutley perfect. They are a pain to adjust, and then once you have the height set where you want it, then you have to go and reset the camber, pinion angle, and all that. You can't practically adjust your ride height to suit your whims, there is just too much work involved.
Al's Pick: Not worthwhile. Your money is better spent elsewhere. Stick with a good set of traditional shocks and springs.
Lower Control arms (LCA):
This is a key weak point from the factory. I consider this a MANDATORY mod for all S197 Mustang GTs. If you're tired of wheelhop, wasted HP and loss of traction then this is the first mod you need to do. I like the tubular welded steel ones, such as those from Spohn, BMR, CHE, etc. There are different types available (adjustable vs. non-adjustable). Get the adjustable ones if you have lowered your car (or if you have a 1-pc driveshaft) so that you can correct your pinion angle. Get the solid ones if you aren't lowering the car and are not going to get a 1-pc driveshaft. Steeda makes some billet aluminum ones which look nice but are $$$ expensive and are known to break on high HP cars. I'd avoid those and get the tubular steel type. The tubular steel ones are lighter, stronger, and cheaper. I don't like the CHE ones becasue they don't have grease fittings in them. That's bad for maintenance. My favorites are the BMR "combo street" type with a poly bushing on one end and a spherical bearing on the other. Spohn has a set that is virtually identical, either would be a fantastic choice.
Al's Pick: BMR or Spohn "combo" type. Adjustable if you are lowering or have a 1-pc driveshaft. Solid for stock height & driveshaft.
Upper Control arms (UCA):
Another factory weak spot. The upper control arm is located above the rear differential housing. The stock one is stamped steel and is quite flimsy for the amount of load it has to bear. You can get aftermarket UCAs in either the solid type or the adjustable type, just like LCAs. You only need adjustability on one set (either upper OR lower). Personally I suggest a SOLID UCA and then adjustable LCAs. (this is stronger and easier to adjust). I think the BMR solid UCA is the best on the market, no contest. While many companies have decent LCAs, BMR is the undisputed king of the UCA. It's boxed design and thick steel construction is completely bulletproof. I suggest the one with the spherical bearing. Also, buy a polyurethane bushing that fits in the diff housing to go with it. The bushing is dirt cheap, and it's a pain to install. But it's worth it. This combined with good LCAs will have your rear end hooking up like nobody's business. If you are running serious HP and low drag times, get the matching UCA mount to go with this. The poly bushing for the rear end housing is available from Spohn or BMR.
Al's Pick: BMR solid (non-adjustable) with spherical bearing.
UCA Mount:
This is a metal bracket that bolts to the unibody. It's job is to hold the forward end of the UCA. Basically, this part spreads the load from the UCA onto the thinner sheet metal of the unibody. Like the UCA, the stock one stamped from some pretty flimsy steel. If you are going to be under your car messing with the UCA, you might as well replace this as well. I
Sway Bars:
The front is quite good stock. There are many, many, things that I would replace before the front sway bar. In fact, I'd put the front sway bar at the very bottom of the "suspension mod list". The rear, however, is an excellent thing to upgrade. A stiffer rear bar will help keep both tires planted when you hit the gas on the strip or coming out of a corner. It will also balance out the steering bias (understeer) the car has from the factory. I like the Steeda and the BMR ones the best, but there are many choices here: Steeda, BMR, Ford, Roush, Eibach, etc. I left my front stock and got a Steeda rear--I normally don't like Steeda's billet aluminum parts, but their rear sway bar with the billet mounting bars is a great product. The billet bars are much stronger than the flimsy OEM ones. Another option would be to find a Shelby rear sway bar, as Ford increased the size of the rear bar on the GT500. Several companies sell a kit that has both front and rear sway bars. Personally I do not like these. I would stick with the rear ONLY. Stiffening the front istypically a DOWNGRADE because it will prevent you from eliminating the oversteer problem.
Al's Pick: Leave the front stock. Either Steeda or BMR rear.
Strut tower bars:
The theory of this product is that it ties together the front strut towers, reducing body flex. The S197 chassis is very stiff--espeically at the front strut towers. Consequently this isn't really needed. In my opinion, this is a mainly costmetic mod. There are tons of choices out there as this is a popular "me too" product that was popularized with ricers--becasue of this there's flood of them on the market. The the BMR is the strongest. If you seriously want one that's functional, that's what I'd get. The Steeda one with the billet ends is a joke and has an insane price tag. No thanks! Note that some strut tower bars can interfere with superchargers or plenum covers, so be careful of that.
Al's Pick: none. leave it stock and save your $$$ and weight for mods that really count.
Shocks:
If you want good shocks there are many options: FRPP and Saleen are a good match with lowering springs. But, the hot ticket is the Toicko D-specs. These are fully adjustable, so you can set up your car for street, road race, drag, or whatever you feel like. They also have very good valving, which was designed in part by Steeda. You can adjust them very quickly (less than 5 min for all 4 shocks), which gives you a lot of options. If you have to take a long trip with the family you can soften 'em up and make the car ride like a cadillac. Stiffen up all four when you drive in the twisties. You can leave the rear stiff and soften the front for better transfer on launch when you hit the drag strip....these are just some examples, but suffice it to say the D-specs are very very nice. Check with Brenspeed for the best price that I know of. Last time I checked they were $540 for all four, with free shipping!
Al's Pick: D-specs.
Springs:
Many choices here. Springs are mainly a cosmetic thing, but a mild drop will lower the center of gravity of the car and that can help cornering. All of the major brands are good (Eibach, Ford, Steeda, Roush, BMR). I'd make a choice depending on how much lowering you want. The most popular for mild drops are the Roush and the Steela "ultralite" springs. The Eibach Pro-Kit is really popular too. Roush will sell you sets of just fronts or just rears. Some guys, myself included, lowered just the rear of the car. I think that's nice if you want a very mild drop and you want to be careful about ground clearance. Beware the Eibach "sportline" kit. This is a VERY low drop that is impractical on a street-driven car, and is sure to cause headaches with alignment, bump-steer, etc. I would only consider the sportlines if you want a "Show" car and don't plan on driving it hard.
Al's Pick: any major brand
Coil Overs:
If you want, you can replace the stock shocks and springs with a coil over setup. Coil-overs combine springs and shocks into a single package. They are usually adjustable for both ride height and for damping (like the D-specs). These are very expensive, but have the advantage of letting you adjust the ride height exactly where you want it. I wouldn't buy these unless you are a very serious road-course racer and need to get everything absoloutley perfect. They are a pain to adjust, and then once you have the height set where you want it, then you have to go and reset the camber, pinion angle, and all that. You can't practically adjust your ride height to suit your whims, there is just too much work involved.
Al's Pick: Not worthwhile. Your money is better spent elsewhere. Stick with a good set of traditional shocks and springs.
Lower Control arms (LCA):
This is a key weak point from the factory. I consider this a MANDATORY mod for all S197 Mustang GTs. If you're tired of wheelhop, wasted HP and loss of traction then this is the first mod you need to do. I like the tubular welded steel ones, such as those from Spohn, BMR, CHE, etc. There are different types available (adjustable vs. non-adjustable). Get the adjustable ones if you have lowered your car (or if you have a 1-pc driveshaft) so that you can correct your pinion angle. Get the solid ones if you aren't lowering the car and are not going to get a 1-pc driveshaft. Steeda makes some billet aluminum ones which look nice but are $$$ expensive and are known to break on high HP cars. I'd avoid those and get the tubular steel type. The tubular steel ones are lighter, stronger, and cheaper. I don't like the CHE ones becasue they don't have grease fittings in them. That's bad for maintenance. My favorites are the BMR "combo street" type with a poly bushing on one end and a spherical bearing on the other. Spohn has a set that is virtually identical, either would be a fantastic choice.
Al's Pick: BMR or Spohn "combo" type. Adjustable if you are lowering or have a 1-pc driveshaft. Solid for stock height & driveshaft.
Upper Control arms (UCA):
Another factory weak spot. The upper control arm is located above the rear differential housing. The stock one is stamped steel and is quite flimsy for the amount of load it has to bear. You can get aftermarket UCAs in either the solid type or the adjustable type, just like LCAs. You only need adjustability on one set (either upper OR lower). Personally I suggest a SOLID UCA and then adjustable LCAs. (this is stronger and easier to adjust). I think the BMR solid UCA is the best on the market, no contest. While many companies have decent LCAs, BMR is the undisputed king of the UCA. It's boxed design and thick steel construction is completely bulletproof. I suggest the one with the spherical bearing. Also, buy a polyurethane bushing that fits in the diff housing to go with it. The bushing is dirt cheap, and it's a pain to install. But it's worth it. This combined with good LCAs will have your rear end hooking up like nobody's business. If you are running serious HP and low drag times, get the matching UCA mount to go with this. The poly bushing for the rear end housing is available from Spohn or BMR.
Al's Pick: BMR solid (non-adjustable) with spherical bearing.
UCA Mount:
This is a metal bracket that bolts to the unibody. It's job is to hold the forward end of the UCA. Basically, this part spreads the load from the UCA onto the thinner sheet metal of the unibody. Like the UCA, the stock one stamped from some pretty flimsy steel. If you are going to be under your car messing with the UCA, you might as well replace this as well. I
09-26-2007, 05:29 PM
#3
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: California
Posts: 4,132
RE: Lowering Questions
Get the springs of your choice but the panhard is def needed IMO... when you lower your stang it's going to shift slightly... the panhard will let you correct that. You'll need an alignment as well after lowering to avoid getting negative camber
09-26-2007, 05:45 PM
#4
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 428
RE: Lowering Questions
sorry to sound so dumb, after lowering and installing the panhard, will the place i take it for alignment adjust the rear for centering, or is that something i must do before the alignment?
This is what i plan on installing,
Rear sway bar,
Eibach Pro Springs,
Shocks, Not sure what name brand yet,
LCA's Lakewood,
Panhard bar, not sure what name brand to get and if i need the brace as well?
Are all of the above things i can do myself? Other than a spring compressor, will i run into any other trouble?
This is what i plan on installing,
Rear sway bar,
Eibach Pro Springs,
Shocks, Not sure what name brand yet,
LCA's Lakewood,
Panhard bar, not sure what name brand to get and if i need the brace as well?
Are all of the above things i can do myself? Other than a spring compressor, will i run into any other trouble?
09-26-2007, 06:00 PM
#5
RE: Lowering Questions
You dont need the brace, you can reach up and feel how flimsy the factory brace is though.
The alignment is for the front only, they can adjust your rear too.
Here is link for the panhard:
http://www.stangnet.com/Tech-Article...ll-061230.html
As for the other installs, it can be done yourself if you want.
Tacobills spring write up
Shock and strut install
non adj LCAs
sway bar
Other good writeups
http://www.fnsweet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28554
http://www.fnsweet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30587
The alignment is for the front only, they can adjust your rear too.
Here is link for the panhard:
http://www.stangnet.com/Tech-Article...ll-061230.html
As for the other installs, it can be done yourself if you want.
Tacobills spring write up
Shock and strut install
non adj LCAs
sway bar
Other good writeups
http://www.fnsweet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28554
http://www.fnsweet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30587
01-19-2008, 01:14 AM
#8
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 929
RE: Lowering Questions
ORIGINAL: howarmat
You dont need the brace, you can reach up and feel how flimsy the factory brace is though.
The alignment is for the front only, they can adjust your rear too.
Here is link for the panhard:
http://www.stangnet.com/Tech-Article...ll-061230.html
As for the other installs, it can be done yourself if you want.
Tacobills spring write up
Shock and strut install
non adj LCAs
sway bar
Other good writeups
http://www.fnsweet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28554
http://www.fnsweet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30587
You dont need the brace, you can reach up and feel how flimsy the factory brace is though.
The alignment is for the front only, they can adjust your rear too.
Here is link for the panhard:
http://www.stangnet.com/Tech-Article...ll-061230.html
As for the other installs, it can be done yourself if you want.
Tacobills spring write up
Shock and strut install
non adj LCAs
sway bar
Other good writeups
http://www.fnsweet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28554
http://www.fnsweet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30587
01-19-2008, 01:30 AM
#9
Multi-Tasking Moderator!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Detroit Rock City!
Posts: 15,618
RE: Lowering Questions
Depending on the drop and the width of the rear rims determines if you will need the panhard bar (adj) so you can get the rear axel centered and plumb. If lowering more than one inch you will need at least adj LCA's and maybe a panhard bar if you are running wide rims in the back. You did mention not to drop brand manes but the BMR adj LCA's w/relocation brackets will help with the drop of the car and getting your LCA angles right on spec. Hope it helps J
ORIGINAL: Jackies Stang
I hope this is not a double post! I am seriously interested in lowering my car! I plan on keeping the stock wheels/tires on for now! I have read many posts and would like help in determining what correct parts are needed and why in order to lower my car safely. I dont need name brands just what process is needed and explanations on what the parts do. Example, Panhard bar, i realize it is "recommended" but is it needed and why. I know it help keep the rear centered but how does it do that?
I am sure everyone will have an opinion and a budget may prevent certain people from changing parts for better ones. I am just looking for the Proper way to lower the car. Thanks.
I hope this is not a double post! I am seriously interested in lowering my car! I plan on keeping the stock wheels/tires on for now! I have read many posts and would like help in determining what correct parts are needed and why in order to lower my car safely. I dont need name brands just what process is needed and explanations on what the parts do. Example, Panhard bar, i realize it is "recommended" but is it needed and why. I know it help keep the rear centered but how does it do that?
I am sure everyone will have an opinion and a budget may prevent certain people from changing parts for better ones. I am just looking for the Proper way to lower the car. Thanks.
01-19-2008, 04:23 PM
#10
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 1,778
RE: Lowering Questions
Lots of opinions, guess I'll add mine:
- With EibachPro and stock rims you will not *need* an adj PHB - the rear tires will shift very slightly to the left, not noticeble unless you have wide rims/tires. Its a nice to have.
- Don't know why you would need a new rear sway unless you are planning on doing some track time (twisties or serious drag).Just lowering springs and dampers will make a big diff in body roll and reduce understeer.
- Adjustable LCAs - again, with Eibach Pro and stock Drive shaft you won't *need* them. They are a nice to have.
- Reloc kit - if you are serious about drag racing otherwise you are not going to change your geometry enough to need them. Another nice to have.
- New strut mounts - didn't see anyone else mention. Highly recommended, the stockers are cheap plastic and rubber, prone to wearing out and being noisy.
If you are interested in handling and ride quality the most important component is the dampers. You should get high quality dampers with any lowering springs. The most favored are the Tokico D-Specs and the Koni adjustables.
You can do this in steps: Do the springs and dampers first. Drive it. Unless you are racing I'll wager you won't need anything else.
- With EibachPro and stock rims you will not *need* an adj PHB - the rear tires will shift very slightly to the left, not noticeble unless you have wide rims/tires. Its a nice to have.
- Don't know why you would need a new rear sway unless you are planning on doing some track time (twisties or serious drag).Just lowering springs and dampers will make a big diff in body roll and reduce understeer.
- Adjustable LCAs - again, with Eibach Pro and stock Drive shaft you won't *need* them. They are a nice to have.
- Reloc kit - if you are serious about drag racing otherwise you are not going to change your geometry enough to need them. Another nice to have.
- New strut mounts - didn't see anyone else mention. Highly recommended, the stockers are cheap plastic and rubber, prone to wearing out and being noisy.
If you are interested in handling and ride quality the most important component is the dampers. You should get high quality dampers with any lowering springs. The most favored are the Tokico D-Specs and the Koni adjustables.
You can do this in steps: Do the springs and dampers first. Drive it. Unless you are racing I'll wager you won't need anything else.