Gas prices and the new Musclecar era
11-15-2007, 01:59 PM
#101
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Posts: 20
RE: Gas prices and the new Musclecar era
[quote]ORIGINAL: imyy4u
Again, I disagree with you. Common sense would dictate that people will start moving closer, or using public transportation, but I don't think that'll happen. People will instead bitch and moan about the high gas prices and something will give. We will go to war before we let prices get to $8/gallon. And people will quit their jobs before they'll stop driving to work. Americans are just that lazy and stubborn.
You are forgetting public transportation means *gasp* having to walk a block or two to the stop and a block or two to work from your stop. And Americans are fat and lazy. They are NOT gonna do that. And in a lot of cases, in fact in almost all cities except Chicago and NYC, public transporation does
ORIGINAL: PhotonSabreX
I agree with you in the fact that money is moving away from public transit even though it should be going toward it. But I'm saying that we'll get to a point economically where we just won't have a choice but to put money in it, because that will ultimately be cheaper and more efficient than driving. Coupled with our lifestyle of distance living and long commuting, when gas prices reach a certain point (and it's definitely debatable what that point is), living closer, and thus being able to use public transportation efficiently and practically will be our only way out of a personal financial hole.
Let me use an example here, with a couple of main assumptions: first, $8 a gallon is that 'point' that people will just say "enough is enough". Second, our daily commuter is a fellow Mustang GT (which have great mileage considering their nature as V8 beasts
) driver such as ourselves. Now here in my homestate of Michigan, it's by no means atypical for someone to have a 70 mile trip each way to and fro work (say from the Lansing area to the Detroit area). This person commuting 70 miles each way (140 miles daily) for 5 business days is 700 miles a week. Our GT driver doesn't have a lead foot, and luckily drives on an uncongested highway so that s/he has the maximum highway mileage rating of 25 mpg (sorry guys, no CAI + tune here, that's cheating
). 700 miles weekly/25mpg is 28 gallons of fuel. 28 gallons at our assumed $8 per gallon is $224 a week.
Feeling like you might want to move closer to your place of work yet? I know I would.
I can guarantee you that any taxes that might be incurred to us for public transportation funding would be significantly cheaper than $224 a week for gas. It would most likely cheaper even under a lesser scenario, say, $150/week. Are our Wal-Marts and strip malls that important? I don't think so, personally. This is why in my opinion (supported by presentations like this: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/121 , a very interesting talk on the future of our suburbs and cities), people are going to start living closer to places of business, stores, and services that are going to set the foundation for a useable public transit system.
The message here? Well, there's two, I guess.
First, we're going to have an inevitable lifestyle change which will still be comfortable, but just more convenient in a world where oils and gases become too expensive for wasteful consumption. Second (because of the first), enjoy the time we have left being able to recreationally drive and not feel stressed about it. Personally, I savor every minute I'm in my 'stang cruising the roads and town. I'm glad that I'll be able to tell my grandkids that I was able to drive big, loud V8's "back in my day" and was able to truly enjoy our car culture.
*Edited because I left out a thought!
ORIGINAL: imyy4u
It is interesting you mention that. You are right - the only two cities in the whole US with good public transportation are Chicago and NYC. Many people that live in downtown Chicago or in NYC don't even need cars, and those don't own them. Why? Because we can take the train, or the bus anywhere we need to go. Or if it's far, we take a cab. The public transportation here is huge - everyone uses it. Only people that drive are the people that live in the suburbs and can't use the public transportation because they're 50 miles away. And even that is changing as we expand the public transportation further and further out into the suburbs. I would love to see cities start to imitate Chicago and NYC. And amazingly, ever notice how crappy LA's public transportation is? Weird...
Anyway, I disagree with you. I think we are moving AWAY from public transportation, even though EVERYTHING tells us we should be moving towards it. In Chicago right now, we can't seem to find the money to finance our CTA (Chicago Transit Authority) so there's big talks of them cutting TONS of buses/trains...meaning A LOT of people will be unable to get to work. Every time they threaten that, we get some temporary funding, but pretty soon it'll run out and we'll be SOL. No one wants to pay the increases taxes to keep our public transportation system up and running, so pretty soon we'll go the way of LA and it'll be useless. That will of course cause a riot because the poor who depend the most on public transportation won't be able to buy cars to commute so crime will rise suddenly.
I could go on and on, but the point is we need to start using public transportation more, not less. People must realize one person riding in a 5000 lb Hummer 50 miles each way to and from work is a waste.
ORIGINAL: PhotonSabreX
I agree that we as Americans have a general problem with public/communal transportation, but I disagree with the notion that our tolerance for it will only be short lived; oppositely, I think that only our disdain for it will be shortlived(which will probably be due to generational differences) because we won't really have a choice in the years to come.
Think about it:the reason why public transportation here in the US is so worthless in most places (obviously not NYC or downtown Chicago, but that's about it) is because we're so spread out that it's a burden rather than a convenience to use. When gas prices become so expensive that our current life styles of communiting to work 50, 60 miles a day from the country and burbs to the city becomes way too expensive, two things are going to happen: first, people are going to be economically forced to get over petty differences and be willing to live closer to each other in more urban and communal settings in order to be closer to work and services, and second our public transportation will be updated to reflect a such a change.
Everyone thinks that just because Europeans pay $7 and $8 a gallon that we'll be able to do the same here without a lifestyle change. This is using a falseassumption - that Europeans have the same space as we do. But of course, they don't. The city is the focal point of European life, not the country or suburbs. Everyone lives close to their jobs, and if they don't, there's efficient rails and buses in place because countries are so small. When you only have to drive a couple of miles to work AND have good public transportation because everything is so close to begin with, such gas prices aren't really a big deal.
Would YOU pay that much money for gas if you had a 50 mile commute each way, or even 50 miles there-and-back total? Unless you're loaded, probably not.
I don't mean to sound preachy, but I just think a lot of us are in for a very big surprise within the next 20 or 25 years.
I agree that we as Americans have a general problem with public/communal transportation, but I disagree with the notion that our tolerance for it will only be short lived; oppositely, I think that only our disdain for it will be shortlived(which will probably be due to generational differences) because we won't really have a choice in the years to come.
Think about it:the reason why public transportation here in the US is so worthless in most places (obviously not NYC or downtown Chicago, but that's about it) is because we're so spread out that it's a burden rather than a convenience to use. When gas prices become so expensive that our current life styles of communiting to work 50, 60 miles a day from the country and burbs to the city becomes way too expensive, two things are going to happen: first, people are going to be economically forced to get over petty differences and be willing to live closer to each other in more urban and communal settings in order to be closer to work and services, and second our public transportation will be updated to reflect a such a change.
Everyone thinks that just because Europeans pay $7 and $8 a gallon that we'll be able to do the same here without a lifestyle change. This is using a falseassumption - that Europeans have the same space as we do. But of course, they don't. The city is the focal point of European life, not the country or suburbs. Everyone lives close to their jobs, and if they don't, there's efficient rails and buses in place because countries are so small. When you only have to drive a couple of miles to work AND have good public transportation because everything is so close to begin with, such gas prices aren't really a big deal.
Would YOU pay that much money for gas if you had a 50 mile commute each way, or even 50 miles there-and-back total? Unless you're loaded, probably not.
I don't mean to sound preachy, but I just think a lot of us are in for a very big surprise within the next 20 or 25 years.
Anyway, I disagree with you. I think we are moving AWAY from public transportation, even though EVERYTHING tells us we should be moving towards it. In Chicago right now, we can't seem to find the money to finance our CTA (Chicago Transit Authority) so there's big talks of them cutting TONS of buses/trains...meaning A LOT of people will be unable to get to work. Every time they threaten that, we get some temporary funding, but pretty soon it'll run out and we'll be SOL. No one wants to pay the increases taxes to keep our public transportation system up and running, so pretty soon we'll go the way of LA and it'll be useless. That will of course cause a riot because the poor who depend the most on public transportation won't be able to buy cars to commute so crime will rise suddenly.
I could go on and on, but the point is we need to start using public transportation more, not less. People must realize one person riding in a 5000 lb Hummer 50 miles each way to and from work is a waste.
Let me use an example here, with a couple of main assumptions: first, $8 a gallon is that 'point' that people will just say "enough is enough". Second, our daily commuter is a fellow Mustang GT (which have great mileage considering their nature as V8 beasts
) driver such as ourselves. Now here in my homestate of Michigan, it's by no means atypical for someone to have a 70 mile trip each way to and fro work (say from the Lansing area to the Detroit area). This person commuting 70 miles each way (140 miles daily) for 5 business days is 700 miles a week. Our GT driver doesn't have a lead foot, and luckily drives on an uncongested highway so that s/he has the maximum highway mileage rating of 25 mpg (sorry guys, no CAI + tune here, that's cheating). 700 miles weekly/25mpg is 28 gallons of fuel. 28 gallons at our assumed $8 per gallon is $224 a week. Feeling like you might want to move closer to your place of work yet? I know I would.
I can guarantee you that any taxes that might be incurred to us for public transportation funding would be significantly cheaper than $224 a week for gas. It would most likely cheaper even under a lesser scenario, say, $150/week. Are our Wal-Marts and strip malls that important? I don't think so, personally. This is why in my opinion (supported by presentations like this: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/121 , a very interesting talk on the future of our suburbs and cities), people are going to start living closer to places of business, stores, and services that are going to set the foundation for a useable public transit system.
The message here? Well, there's two, I guess.
First, we're going to have an inevitable lifestyle change which will still be comfortable, but just more convenient in a world where oils and gases become too expensive for wasteful consumption. Second (because of the first), enjoy the time we have left being able to recreationally drive and not feel stressed about it. Personally, I savor every minute I'm in my 'stang cruising the roads and town. I'm glad that I'll be able to tell my grandkids that I was able to drive big, loud V8's "back in my day" and was able to truly enjoy our car culture.
*Edited because I left out a thought!
You are forgetting public transportation means *gasp* having to walk a block or two to the stop and a block or two to work from your stop. And Americans are fat and lazy. They are NOT gonna do that. And in a lot of cases, in fact in almost all cities except Chicago and NYC, public transporation does
2.5l turbo would do just fine for me
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