How is this possible... and how to duplicate the results?
03-24-2009, 09:10 PM
#11
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: MD
Posts: 2,083
Justin is one heck of a tuner and a fantastic driver. A lot to the NHRA winners are JPC tuned Mustangs. JPC has done all of my mods and I have one beast of a Mustang. Oh by the way, Justin weighs less than 190.
03-24-2009, 09:22 PM
#12
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Posts: 1,699
Dude, just different tracks and drivers - we are talking up to 1/2 second differences - (yes I said 1/2 second)
The ice cold in the shade makes a difference as well. The vast majority of stock'ish GT's I have seen at the tracks will run up to .3 quicker ice cold versus normal operating temp. I have put this to the test myself at just my last event in a rental car.
You can't worry about what someone else does at a different track. Now if you see someone with similar mods at the same track as you running considerably faster, then you need to evaluate your driving skills or his claims of having the same mods...
The ice cold in the shade makes a difference as well. The vast majority of stock'ish GT's I have seen at the tracks will run up to .3 quicker ice cold versus normal operating temp. I have put this to the test myself at just my last event in a rental car.
You can't worry about what someone else does at a different track. Now if you see someone with similar mods at the same track as you running considerably faster, then you need to evaluate your driving skills or his claims of having the same mods...
03-24-2009, 09:55 PM
#13
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 536
I don't think it could have anything to do with driver except a very slight difference due to his weight. I had a better 60', both cars are Automatic... so all there is to do after the launch is keep the pedal to the floor, which I can assure you I do :P
I've done the ice on the manifold thing, and come close to my 13.082 but not quite due to the warmer spring air vs fall air. The 13.082 was after letting the car cool down for a very long time (temp gauge was all the way down).
Due to air and less weight he should have about a .165 advantage, but assume a CAI/Tune gives you 20 RWHP and we both start at 240 RWHP. Full Exhaust in theory should add another 25 RWHP.
So...
His 260 RWHP (with a .165 advantage, roughly equivalent to 16.5 RWHP)
vs
My 285 RWHP
So the difference in my favor should be about 10 RWHP or a tenth... The difference may not be as much as I thought considering:
*I can only get 91 octane, they ran 93 octane
*They iced the intake, probably in weather that was already chilly
*I have the heavy Shaker 1000
I still think I should be able to run at least what he ran maybe a tenth or two better all factors considered. Guess it's time to get the tune checked...
I've done the ice on the manifold thing, and come close to my 13.082 but not quite due to the warmer spring air vs fall air. The 13.082 was after letting the car cool down for a very long time (temp gauge was all the way down).
Due to air and less weight he should have about a .165 advantage, but assume a CAI/Tune gives you 20 RWHP and we both start at 240 RWHP. Full Exhaust in theory should add another 25 RWHP.
So...
His 260 RWHP (with a .165 advantage, roughly equivalent to 16.5 RWHP)
vs
My 285 RWHP
So the difference in my favor should be about 10 RWHP or a tenth... The difference may not be as much as I thought considering:
*I can only get 91 octane, they ran 93 octane
*They iced the intake, probably in weather that was already chilly
*I have the heavy Shaker 1000
I still think I should be able to run at least what he ran maybe a tenth or two better all factors considered. Guess it's time to get the tune checked...
03-24-2009, 10:13 PM
#14
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Detroit Rock City!
Posts: 15,618
Dude, just different tracks and drivers - we are talking up to 1/2 second differences - (yes I said 1/2 second)
The ice cold in the shade makes a difference as well. The vast majority of stock'ish GT's I have seen at the tracks will run up to .3 quicker ice cold versus normal operating temp. I have put this to the test myself at just my last event in a rental car.
You can't worry about what someone else does at a different track. Now if you see someone with similar mods at the same track as you running considerably faster, then you need to evaluate your driving skills or his claims of having the same mods...
The ice cold in the shade makes a difference as well. The vast majority of stock'ish GT's I have seen at the tracks will run up to .3 quicker ice cold versus normal operating temp. I have put this to the test myself at just my last event in a rental car.
You can't worry about what someone else does at a different track. Now if you see someone with similar mods at the same track as you running considerably faster, then you need to evaluate your driving skills or his claims of having the same mods...
03-24-2009, 10:16 PM
#15
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,699
Dude, you are going about this all wrong...
Mistake #1 - thinking mods are a 'shopping list', i.e. counting up each individual HP claims and then adding them together. It simply doesn't work that way. if X mod gives you 10 hp and Y mod gives you 10 hp, and Z mod gives you 10 hp - it does not mean that XYZ mods give you 30 hp - that is a myth.
Mistake #2 - Not factoring tuning. Not to say Justin is a 'better' tuner than your tuner (although Justin is damn good) but you do not have a clue of the parameters of their tune. For example, TIMING is a HUGE difference and higher octane (yes even just 93) gives you a definitive advantage to run more timing. The easiest way to add HP to these cars is to increase timing. I know Justin and I also know at the tracks when he is going for a number, he will really ramp up the timing to the point of leaning the car out to get a number so that by itself could mean a considerable difference if you were lined up next to the guy.
Mistake #3 - underestimating the track. Where did you run? JPC is ground zero to some of the fastest tracks in the country. Those tracks out there are damn good. Every single FFW participant that comes out to Fontana for the November event (including JDM and others) - they all run .3 slower here at the west coast tracks than they do back home. Track conditions are a big factor regardless of the 60'. The 60' only signifies if the track is hooking up at the starting line, not how fast you are going to run overall. Granted, it usually translates, but it's not the whole enchilada.
Based on everything you said, I'd bet money the difference between your car and his is #1 - more aggressive timing and spark advance in his tune and #2 - weight.
Mistake #1 - thinking mods are a 'shopping list', i.e. counting up each individual HP claims and then adding them together. It simply doesn't work that way. if X mod gives you 10 hp and Y mod gives you 10 hp, and Z mod gives you 10 hp - it does not mean that XYZ mods give you 30 hp - that is a myth.
Mistake #2 - Not factoring tuning. Not to say Justin is a 'better' tuner than your tuner (although Justin is damn good) but you do not have a clue of the parameters of their tune. For example, TIMING is a HUGE difference and higher octane (yes even just 93) gives you a definitive advantage to run more timing. The easiest way to add HP to these cars is to increase timing. I know Justin and I also know at the tracks when he is going for a number, he will really ramp up the timing to the point of leaning the car out to get a number so that by itself could mean a considerable difference if you were lined up next to the guy.
Mistake #3 - underestimating the track. Where did you run? JPC is ground zero to some of the fastest tracks in the country. Those tracks out there are damn good. Every single FFW participant that comes out to Fontana for the November event (including JDM and others) - they all run .3 slower here at the west coast tracks than they do back home. Track conditions are a big factor regardless of the 60'. The 60' only signifies if the track is hooking up at the starting line, not how fast you are going to run overall. Granted, it usually translates, but it's not the whole enchilada.
Based on everything you said, I'd bet money the difference between your car and his is #1 - more aggressive timing and spark advance in his tune and #2 - weight.
Last edited by modaddict; 03-24-2009 at 10:19 PM.
03-24-2009, 11:00 PM
#16
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 536
I think I was conservative with how much HP the mods add, I remember the claimed gains being higher than my estimates.
I figured the tune was probably to the ragged edge... maybe I'll see what my tuner can do with 92 Octane. (92 is the best you can find here, only 1 station has it..)
I run at KCIR. You can see a partial (full if you're already a member on 1320go) time slip of my run at:
www.1320go.com/kansascity/getDates.php , then select 11-23-08, title not specified, and enter car 685 in the search. This shows the exact conditions at the time as well.
I am not sure how the track prep compares here at KCIR.
I am also experimenting with data logging and trying to learn enough so that I will be able to use the Pro Racer software to tune my own car.
I figured the tune was probably to the ragged edge... maybe I'll see what my tuner can do with 92 Octane. (92 is the best you can find here, only 1 station has it..)
I run at KCIR. You can see a partial (full if you're already a member on 1320go) time slip of my run at:
www.1320go.com/kansascity/getDates.php , then select 11-23-08, title not specified, and enter car 685 in the search. This shows the exact conditions at the time as well.
I am not sure how the track prep compares here at KCIR.
I am also experimenting with data logging and trying to learn enough so that I will be able to use the Pro Racer software to tune my own car.
Last edited by gburke1; 03-24-2009 at 11:03 PM.
03-25-2009, 08:11 AM
#19
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,496
The CAI/Tune combo Brenspeed listed as running 12s was the C&L Street. I remember b/c that's what made me buy it lol. THe difference is they ran that with a stick car and M/T Streets.
BTW guys Justin is really small, we're talking 130-140lbs. I also agree he can tune with the best. As far as driving at the track---there may not be as much driver control with auto vs. stick but w/e tricks there are i bet Justin has them down pat!
BTW guys Justin is really small, we're talking 130-140lbs. I also agree he can tune with the best. As far as driving at the track---there may not be as much driver control with auto vs. stick but w/e tricks there are i bet Justin has them down pat!
