Blacksmoke

So after reading about the issue of some spark plugs breaking when trying to remove them on this forum I decided to go talk about it to my dealer.
(Which my uncle is part owner of)
It was time for my oil change anyhow and scheduled maintenance.

So I get to talking and explaining what I have heard and sure enough he said he has heard of it.
In fact... they had a truck in there at the time where they had that happen.

I asked him if he thought it would be a good idea for me to go ahead and yank these plugs and put in a one-piece.
His advice to me was that I might as well go ahead and have it done.
He said he had not heard of the one piece but advised me to do what I have heard of with personal experience.

So I said cool and asked them if I ordered the plugs, would they do it.
He said sure. Then I proceed to ask him what would happen if any of them broke... would they charge me for the work to fix it?
He told me it was tricky but that if my car was under warranty he would cover it. He acted like he kinda acknowledged it was Ford's fault.

Cool I thought! 34200 miles! I should be good right? WRONG.
My warranty had expired just 8 days ago on the three year mark!!!
He said there was nothing he could do to get around me having to pay for it if they did break without a warranty.

I asked him how much it would cost me if they did break and he said it depends.
The truck they had in there had broken off 3 plugs (owner removing them I believe).
They fixed it.
The owner came back and said the truck was running like crap.
They looked and as it turns out the guy had done virtually NO maintenance
on his truck and it had been so long since his oil was changed that there was clumps of oil in his engine. ( The engine was yanked when I was there)
This guy was gonna end up paying 800 bucks for them to fix it all.

He asked me how I took care of my car, and I told him to read my maintenance history which was flawless. He asked me if I hot rodded the car alot and I said no.
Then he told me that he would not worry too much if he was me about them breaking. (He seemed to think if you did not take care of, or hot rodded the car there was more of a chance of them breaking, which I doubted and still do).
But he still said he would still take these plugs out regardless after we both talked about the longer they are left in, the more of a chance they could have of them breaking.

Anyways... long story short the dealer did acknowledge the problem that some vehicles were having, but said that the owners were responsible for paying for it, especially when the car was out of warranty.

I CANT BELIEVE MINE RAN OUT 8 DAYS AGO!!!!!

I will have this done as I am CONVINCED that if I left them in for 100k mi.
that every single one of those things would probably break off.

My question is how many of you use the champion one piece and how many of you put the motorcraft ones back in and just use the anti-seize?
How do the champions work? Any issues on them?
and finally can you provide a link to the part number and where I can get them?

Thanks

vasman

I changed mine at 29000 miles. The came out ok, by following the procedure as described at the "Taco Bills how to" section. Used a torque wrench and although at no time had to exceed 25 ft/lbs of torque to remove them, I took my time and allowed the carb cleaner to do its job. It took me about 1 -1.5 hour to do it but I really went 1/4 turn per plug unless they were really loose. (middle plugs are looser that the end ones for some reason). Used the antiseize with the champions 7989 which are one piece. I have noticed no difference in performance, just have a peace of mind that the plugs are one piece and much less likely to break. I have not removed them yet to see how they fair otherwise. Make sure you space them right, as they come spaced at 51 and ours need to be spaced at 45 if I remember correctly. Taco Bills thread gives you all the info you need.

ski

I've read where owners with 75-100K miles on their S197 GT's had no breakage problems when replacing their plugs, and owners with less than 20K miles had breakage problems.
But since carbon build up between the OD of the plug's bottom electrode shield and the ID of the head's plug hole is the culprit that causes plug breakages, then IMHO the majority of the owners who had no breakage problems replacing them either used top tier gas with the proper amount of additives or drove their cars mostly on longer trips where the engine ran for at least 20 minutes at normal operating temperature(both of which help to prevent carbon build up in the combustion chambers), and the majority of the owners who had breakage problems either used cheap quality gas with little/no additives or drove their cars mostly on shorter trips where the engine did not reach normal operating temperature(both of which cause carbon build up).
Also, patience(as noted by vasman), a steady hand, and the correct tools make a huge difference in determining if breaks occur or not.

zt'sgt

I have a 2006 GT with 28K and have been looking into replacing the factory plugs while I still might have a chance of getting them out without breakage. Not wanting to put back a two-piece plug and having read about others varying experiences with the Champions here and on other websites, I e-mailed a couple of the spark plug manufacturers to see if they had any plans of producing one-piece plugs for these engines. Autolite did not respond. But I did get back an e-mail from NGK within minutes of my original e-mail stating that NGK IS in fact currently working on a one-piece plug for the 3V 4.6L. The e-mail recommended checking NGKs website to see when they become available.

r3velation

just a quick question on the whole warranty thing. does the 3-year mark expire by the date purchased or by the date the computer at the dealership?

or is that date the same? sorry, if it's a pointless question, just wanted to know to be on the safe side. i'm pretty sure i'm going to hit the mileage cap before the 3 year mark, but nothing wrong being on the safe side right?

Blacksmoke

I am not seeing where taco bill has an outline on this...
I found this thread in the HOW TO section but I don't see any document the HE wrote.. help? link?

https://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l...ug-change.html

vasman

there it is. Indeed not tacobills thread sorry.

https://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l...ug-change.html

Just read through it. highlights are

A/ Engine ROOM TEMPERATURE. Remove cables and use compressed air to clean.
B/ Torque wrench set at 32ft/# initially (just for 1/8th of a turn)
C/ Carb Cleaner about teaspoon in each plug, let for 10 minutes to soak in.
D/ Torque wrench set at 25ft/# 1/4 turn. Some roughness on turning may be felt. If resistance is greater then tighten 1/8th of a turn and loosen again 1/4 turn. Leave it for another few minutes to soak in. If no decarb left spray a bit more. Do not go nuts because you may flood your cylinder, and although not the end of the world is better not to.
Continue in that fashion till you remove them all.

Space your new plugs (read the thread I think around page 11 they give the whole procedure and the correct spacing which I am pretty sure it is 45.

Apply anti seize paste to the new plugs at the section after the thread and not more than 1/4 of an inch from the torch end of the plug. Make sure your stay clear from the spark area.

Put them back in and torque them to 25ft/# (please double check this, the thread includes the ford TSB on this issue). If not go to taco bills how to and on the bottom you will find all the tsb's look for the sparkplug one (there should be 2 read the newest one)

Good luck.

here is the tsb



http://www.stangnet.com/images/stori...TSBs/06152.pdf

acarzt

Powertrain is covered for 5 years 60,000 miles. So you are still covered. Direct Quote from Ford's Website about the Warranty.

(1) Your vehicle’s Powertrain components are covered for five years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first. The extended coverage applies to the Engine: all internal lubricated parts, cylinder block, cylinder heads, electrical fuel pump, electronic engine control unit, engine mounts, flywheel, injection pump, manifold (exhaust and intake), manifold bolts, oil pan, oil pump, seals and gaskets, thermostat, thermostat housing, timing chain cover, timing chain (gears or belt), turbocharger/supercharger unit, valve covers, water pump; Transmission: all internal parts, clutch cover, seals and gaskets, torque converter, transfer case (including all internal parts), transmission case, transmission mounts; Front-Wheel Drive: axle shafts, bearings (front and rear), center support bearing, drive shafts, final drive housing (including all internal parts), hubs-automatic front locking (four-wheel drive), locking rings (four-wheel drive), seals and gaskets, universal and constant velocity joints; Rear-Wheel Drive: axle shafts, bearings (front and rear), center support bearing, drive axle housing (including all internal parts), drive shaft, propeller shafts, retainers, supports, seals and gaskets, universal and constant velocity joints.

ski

But there is no specific mention that the spark plugs are covered.

Zink

ski
Good catch.

Where my post here may be a bit out of the lane, it is excellent history.

I am shopping to purchase the 2010GT with the 4.6L V8 engine. Because I have a 2004 F-150, 305, 8 engine the topic of broken plugs has been a high issue for years on the F-150 Web Sites. I suspect I read not less than 600 posts on plug removal. I also have Helms factory manual, and printed out 10 different posts, pages, or TSB presentations by FOMOCO. I use only additive gas and change oil ever 1800 miles; my rig has only 17K miles on it. Purrs.

But from the 600 posts and print outs surrounding the Ford plug issue all I could surmise was that FOMOCO was dodging the issue. There was so many complaints to FOMOCO that they put out not one, but 3 extract tools for broken plugs, none of which became of any value until after the plug had broken, and only then if the plug residue was reachable through the threaded plug hole.

Most F-150 posts reflected members where either they or a Dealer would change the plugs, and it was a rarity that the owner-driver received any satisfaction on the price of cleaning up the boken plugs; which often meant taking the heads off to insure the pistons were fully cleansed. You take both heads off to insure the compression remains equal with the insertion of new head gaskets.

A broken plug whether the vehicle is in warranty or out of warranty should not be an issue. Plugs have been being changed for years, and now a simple plug change has to be warranted. Who is asking who to bend over?

One of my worries was that if I bought a new 4.6L would I run into an age old problems of broken plugs. Obviously from the above posts the problem has not been corrected.

Removing plugs is as common as changing oil. A broke plug should not even be a consideration. But obviously FOMOCO does not care that much. Which means, I think I shall run my '04, F-150 up to 90K or so, then sell it off to some poor slob who thinks my excellent vehicle appears masks any fault that may lie with the plugs that were a problem the day I purchased my rig.

This plug thing is one reason to look at Dodge, or the Japanese noodles out there (staying away from the soon to be orphan GM vehicles) and then let FOMOCO worry why their high paid engineers sat on their hands with a very common problem in front of their eyes.

I read Taco Bill's recommendation on using a torque wrench when pulling a plug and if resistance is felt at 1/4 turn, then turn back.....and so on. What if during that forward 1/4 attempt it only goes 1/8 turn, then the plug breaks? Never happen? Then why the torque wrench in the first place. Hey, we are only talking plugs here, not space science.

Back to my lane.