Norm Peterson

Actually, you can if you consider enough things (although there are quite a few, fortunately it isn't nearly a million). Certainly well enough to compare two basically similar cars with only a couple of powertrain differences between them. Adding a little time for each shift or even recognizing that the 2 - 3 and 4 - 5 shifts take longer than the 1 - 2 and 3 - 4 is simple stuff.

Near as I've been able to tell, the only tough thing to mathematically model is the launch and maybe the first second afterward.


Norm

Never2mucHP

The problem is the variable you can never calculate with scientific certainty is the driver. Driver skill is also the one of the single most important aspects of racing.

Thats why comparing powertrains and hp values and torque curves is fun, but it's still just bench racing. It's the reason that S197s can beat 5th gen Camaros on the track dispite the powertrain disparity.

eolson

Remember, an 05' GT premium package coupe shaker 500 option was delivered at only 3480lbs as opposed to the 2011 which I understand will be 3605-3640lbs depending on options.

So even if you put a Saleen SC in, the total added weight of the Saleen install after minusing the stock Ford parts taken off for the istall is only a total added weight of 80lbs.

So with an 05 GT coupe, you would still only be at 3560lbs, with a far faster engine and torque delivery. To me, even with bolt ons, the 2011 is still going to be heavier and slower and less powerful than a twin screw SCed 05 coupe. 412 flywheel HP on a 3615lb car is not very powerful. Erik

Gene K

Lightest 2011 GT is a Spoiler Delete 300A which weighs 3598 lb Curb.

A 2005 Premium Package never weighed 3480 lb Curb. Im not sure how the magazines got that number and the 3450 lb number they are fond of reporting unless they are claiming thats half tank. A standard 2005 GT Deluxe weighed 3487 lb and was 17 lb lighter than a Premium.

The lightest Premium GT was a 2007 that weighed 3495 lb but you would be hard pressed to find one that light. Thats a spoiler delete car without IUP (Black Dash).

I have the official Ford Specs given to the AAMA.

Norm Peterson

Are these different years similar to the MVMS .pdf file for the 2005 MY that's floating around? If you have links (or care to send the files themselves out), I'd be interested.


Norm

Norm Peterson

True. At least with any simulation done at less than Formula 1 levels.

This sort of mathematical/engineering approach is far more useful as an aid to choosing equipment or modifications than it is in predicting the outcome of a race among two or more different drivers. If it doesn't do anything else, it gets you away from making technical choices based on emotion.

The assumption that driver skill remains constant over a range of vehicle preparation levels is reasonable until the change in the level of modification introduces a "discontinuity" such as the level of difficulty in avoiding wheelspin suddenly changing from "no particular problem" to "damn near impossible to avoid".


A modified version of this method can help you choose among several different cars on a new car 'short list'. In this case, you might use it for estimating part throttle response with a passenger and cargo load as much as for maximum performance comparisons.


Norm

Cal26Stang

The 2011 is about 7k more than a new 2010...

eolson

The GT's originally produced before the added chassis weight and welding for the GT500 were the lightest.

Considering the premium package minus the shaker 1000 option(subwoofer) than we're still talking a premium package delivery of 3490 then. The heaviest listing back in 06" for a fully loaded Mustang GT premium package coupe manual transmission was 3515lbs. Minus the subwoofer (17-20lbs) still lands on 3495-98. These were Ford curb weight listngs for the manual GT.

The 2011 equivalently loaded GT as an 06 premium package GT, if we are comparing apples to apples, will certainly weigh more than 3598. I was told 3605-3630 at the Detroit auto show, and saw that listing with the original release article on this Forum.

Again the point of my previous post was simply to state the fact that a 06 GT premium package with a Saleen SC install including upgraded heat exchanger and added coolant will still be 3580lbs tops, were as the 2011 fit out will be 3620 or so. Even a conservative tune on the Saleen will yeild far more usable power than 2011 even with bolt ons.

Yes, the 2011 has the benefit fit of many options that were learned from experience from the 05 platform and cars. The fact still remains, that if your talking about an SCed 05, fit out with all the goodies the 2011 has the option of getting added, the SCed 05 is still lighter and has more power potential, and if kept to the 415-420rwhp range with a quality tune, has proven very reliable and durable. Erik

jerjan

The industry or well the racer's standard is approximately 15% loss of power through the drivetrain from BHP (crank Horsepower) to the RWHP (wheel horsepower) That would bring in an estimate of 412hp X .85 = 350 RWHP. So, if your current ride is 400 RWHP you already have a 50 HP advantage over the 2011 Stang. By the way, HP is a calculation of rpm and torque. Torque is what really matters. Horsepower looks good on paper, but torque is what wins races.