how much 0-60 increase with 4:10s?
When i first installed my 410's i took a trip to atlanta from indianapolis and i was getting 24. I hand calcualted the mpg. I drove there with the thought process of getting the best mpg i could. There was NO spirited driving. People say that ur gas mileage falls off with 410's and it does b/c when people get them installed what do they do? Have fun.
But since i have installed cams my mpg has dropped off considerably. ON the road i get maybe 20. Oh well its fun
But since i have installed cams my mpg has dropped off considerably. ON the road i get maybe 20. Oh well its fun
Might be a closer call than you think.
It will require you to develop more skill in launching, so that you won't put yourself into excessive wheelspin or wheel hop, either of which will trash your 0 - 60 times.
With 4.10's and a 2.00 second gear in the 3650 manual tranny, 60 mph will put you slightly past 6300 rpm (don't bother using any of the online gear & speed calculators to check this - none of them are accurate enough because they all overlook one 3%-ish tire effect that really matters here). Depending on exactly what the power curve looks like on the far side of 6000 rpm, the last 3 or 4 mph might come up more slowly than you're hoping for. Whether an upshift to 3rd would help or hurt depends on several things but would probably hurt.
With the 5R55S automatic, you'll be in third at about 50 mph.
Your question is a very good example of what can happen when there is too much focus on the numbers without knowing what's behind them.
4.10's are certainly going to be more responsive overall, assuming that you stay in each gear to the same road speed as you do now. Or, they'll let you upshift a little sooner when you aren't "playing". For most people, this is the bottom line. Really, zero to 60 is little more than somebody's opinion of how acceleration should be measured and compared, just like the quarter mile was kind of a consensus for that activity. Maybe it's the "zero to 55 mph" time that really matters to you, which becomes a clearer argument for 4.10's.
Norm
It will require you to develop more skill in launching, so that you won't put yourself into excessive wheelspin or wheel hop, either of which will trash your 0 - 60 times.
With 4.10's and a 2.00 second gear in the 3650 manual tranny, 60 mph will put you slightly past 6300 rpm (don't bother using any of the online gear & speed calculators to check this - none of them are accurate enough because they all overlook one 3%-ish tire effect that really matters here). Depending on exactly what the power curve looks like on the far side of 6000 rpm, the last 3 or 4 mph might come up more slowly than you're hoping for. Whether an upshift to 3rd would help or hurt depends on several things but would probably hurt.
With the 5R55S automatic, you'll be in third at about 50 mph.
Your question is a very good example of what can happen when there is too much focus on the numbers without knowing what's behind them.
4.10's are certainly going to be more responsive overall, assuming that you stay in each gear to the same road speed as you do now. Or, they'll let you upshift a little sooner when you aren't "playing". For most people, this is the bottom line. Really, zero to 60 is little more than somebody's opinion of how acceleration should be measured and compared, just like the quarter mile was kind of a consensus for that activity. Maybe it's the "zero to 55 mph" time that really matters to you, which becomes a clearer argument for 4.10's.
Norm
Norm... do you have a theory on why when I went from 3.55's to 4.10's
I actually spun less on launch? I dunno maybe I'm a freak exception to the rule but my launches became easier and I felt like a grabbed the road more. As I said it also got rid of my wheel hop.
I have the Nitto 555's. 275/40/18's all the way around.
I just feel like the 4.10's allowed me to dig in more. Others have acted like I am crazy when I told them this but I have had a few shops told me in fact that this did not suprise them once they sat and thought about it.
I have thought about going with a wider tire in the back to add a little more agressive look as well.
I have the Saleen replica wheels 18x10's and I was wondering what I could go with to add some more width but not go too far and also not take away from the ride as well.
Someone told me I could go with 305's but would I go with 305/40 or what?
Last edited by Blacksmoke; Oct 27, 2010 at 01:51 PM.
What I think I'm seeing is that you are less apt to let too much flywheel momentum get fed into the tranny from it dropping too many revs (or dropping revs too quickly as it grabs) now, as compared to before.
The first inch or so of rear squat under acceleration causes anti-squat to decrease, at least that's what a few measurements I took on my car plus some math are indicating. IOW, the amount of geometric resistance to squat decreases, so however much "planting" happens at the first instant of acceleration actually decreases slightly as the squat first starts to develop. If you manage to get "squatted" an inch and a half or so without getting hop, your anti-squat starts to increase again. When A/S is increasing, the suspension geometry is working harder to increase how hard the tires are being "planted". I am assuming at this point that you do not have LCA relocating brackets (aka antisquat brackets).
I have the Saleen replica wheels 18x10's and I was wondering what I could go with to add some more width but not go too far and also not take away from the ride as well.
Someone told me I could go with 305's but would I go with 305/40 or what?
Someone told me I could go with 305's but would I go with 305/40 or what?
Last edited by Norm Peterson; Oct 27, 2010 at 02:38 PM.
I love them and i have gained some nice power. The sound is great with the flowmasters i have even though i just noticed they are not in my sig. U can feel the cams in the cabin of the car. At first when they were installed and i got my tune from brenspeed. THe low end power loss was like stock again which I new was not right. So I called them and explained to them my problem and they sent me a new tune via email and i couldnt be happier. Expect a little loss down low but not much. Im guessing around 15 more hp out of them. I dont have longtubes so if ur looking to get more of them then u will have to add some headers. Im going a different route and adding a saleen supercharger next spring. Hope this helps
I love them and i have gained some nice power. The sound is great with the flowmasters i have even though i just noticed they are not in my sig. U can feel the cams in the cabin of the car. At first when they were installed and i got my tune from brenspeed. THe low end power loss was like stock again which I new was not right. So I called them and explained to them my problem and they sent me a new tune via email and i couldnt be happier. Expect a little loss down low but not much. Im guessing around 15 more hp out of them. I dont have longtubes so if ur looking to get more of them then u will have to add some headers. Im going a different route and adding a saleen supercharger next spring. Hope this helps
Wanted to make this clear that the 15 is just a guess. I asked chandler at brenspeed and he thought that was about right.
Oh and when i first had them installed i put an h pipe on with the flowmasters. That thing sounded badass at idle but going down the road the trumpeting was bad so thats why i opted for high flow cats. It cleaned up the sound and no trumpeting.
I don't know enough about the way you drive, but is it possible that you aren't leaving with quite as many rpms showing now compared with before (with the 3.31's or 3.55's)? Or that the 4.10's work better with however much slip you tend to naturally allow to happen? There is the human component to this kind of co-ordination, and we don't all do things in precisely the same way or with exactly the same speed.
What I think I'm seeing is that you are less apt to let too much flywheel momentum get fed into the tranny from it dropping too many revs (or dropping revs too quickly as it grabs) now, as compared to before.
The first inch or so of rear squat under acceleration causes anti-squat to decrease, at least that's what a few measurements I took on my car plus some math are indicating. IOW, the amount of geometric resistance to squat decreases, so however much "planting" happens at the first instant of acceleration actually decreases slightly as the squat first starts to develop. If you manage to get "squatted" an inch and a half or so without getting hop, your anti-squat starts to increase again. When A/S is increasing, the suspension geometry is working harder to increase how hard the tires are being "planted". I am assuming at this point that you do not have LCA relocating brackets (aka antisquat brackets).
Either a 305/35 or a 305/40 is OK on 10" wide wheels. But you'll want the opinion from somebody who has run that combination and you'll also want to know what offset their wheels were so you can tell what the effect of any difference in that would cause. The best I can offer is spreadsheet plots of tire shapes like the one in here, since I haven't seen on actual S197's anything wider than the GT500's 285/40 on 18 x 9.5 x +45mm wheels. Even without knowing the offset of your wheels, I can at least plot the 305's against your 275's on the same rims.
What I think I'm seeing is that you are less apt to let too much flywheel momentum get fed into the tranny from it dropping too many revs (or dropping revs too quickly as it grabs) now, as compared to before.
The first inch or so of rear squat under acceleration causes anti-squat to decrease, at least that's what a few measurements I took on my car plus some math are indicating. IOW, the amount of geometric resistance to squat decreases, so however much "planting" happens at the first instant of acceleration actually decreases slightly as the squat first starts to develop. If you manage to get "squatted" an inch and a half or so without getting hop, your anti-squat starts to increase again. When A/S is increasing, the suspension geometry is working harder to increase how hard the tires are being "planted". I am assuming at this point that you do not have LCA relocating brackets (aka antisquat brackets).
Either a 305/35 or a 305/40 is OK on 10" wide wheels. But you'll want the opinion from somebody who has run that combination and you'll also want to know what offset their wheels were so you can tell what the effect of any difference in that would cause. The best I can offer is spreadsheet plots of tire shapes like the one in here, since I haven't seen on actual S197's anything wider than the GT500's 285/40 on 18 x 9.5 x +45mm wheels. Even without knowing the offset of your wheels, I can at least plot the 305's against your 275's on the same rims.
I had a light weight steel flywheel put in with a clutch change.
Before I had a heavy 28pound flywheel.
This steel flywheel I have in there now is actually almost as light weight as an aluminum. It weighs in at only 16.1 pounds.
I put it in because of the trouble people were having when they did not match the flywheel to this company's clutch (Exedy). There were even reports of trouble with stock flywheel use on them from a couple of people I spoke to. Plus I liked the security of a SFI approved one and not having to worry about it ever coming apart on me.
I would think that the lighter weight flywheel might give me MORE trouble though at lauch wouldn't you? RPMs need to be higher when launching with these afterall.....
And no LCA's either.
Wonder what gives?


