Diabolical!

I replied to your PM. Sorry it took me so long. Haven't checked this thread.

coleconner

Yeah considering the tunes for turbo mustangs reset over night and the turbo has to be tightened down after you drive it hard.. <--Does that sound right? No, and neither does your statement. With your knowledge, I would have stopped the sentence after; "I'm not a fan of turbos for our cars."

Superchargers on a 3V IMO would only be an option if I wanted to run really high boost. e.g. 20+ lbs of boost. Why?

Everything you are about to read is non biased information and much of it is only opinion. However, there are facts to support my research and I would be proud to cite this evidence to any skeptical member.

Reason 1.
Someone I know has a 3V with the Kenne Bell supercharger. Okay nice, cool even... But the damn thing sucks. It's slow and sounds terrible (same exhaust as I used to have while N/A, and it sounds much different). First off, you will never hear a supercharger on a 3V unless you build the **** out of your motor OR you bought a blower like the M90 that cost 3grand+ and only nets you 10lbs+ of boost on its smallest pulley I think.. Which in my eyes is why I consider it to be a noob blower. If you plan on stopping at 430 hp;however, it is the perfect option. You would have to get a kenne bell to 20+ lbs to sound the same as a m90 @ 5lbs...

Reason 2.
Our motors respond well to boost (3V). Probably better than the 4V, but they aren't as tough. Turbo's are terribly efficient. They run off of gases that are already in motion via exhaust and require no upgrading if done right the first time. Lets imagine you just acquired your power adder money and you've decided on the Saleen blower. Awesome, so you spend $5,700 on the blower, have it installed for probably around $1,000 then you have to buy injectors, Fuel upgrades and a tune. By my elementary math and rounding of numbers one could expect this 475hp to cost roughly over $7,000. STUPID!!!!!! 175 horsepower does not cost $7,000. If you spend that kind of money for those kind of numbers, you, in my opinion.. You are a 70 year old man that thought he bought a cobra.

Reason 3.
A renown Mustang motorsports shop here in Atlanta quoted me $800 for custom piping on a complete turbo set up for my 3V. I supply the turbo ($1,200), keep in mind you dont need a $1,200 turbo, but I like Garrett and there is no substitue a better turbo. I also supply the intercooler ($400), fuel mods: Injectors, fuel pump or BAP, MAFia by Diablo (Around $600), and a $450 tune and I'm done. Okay so for roughly 3,400 dollars I have a power adder that is capable of running anywhere from 5lbs of boost to 30lbs of boost; with the change of a spring and a turn of a boost controller. No pulley swapping, no spending 2,000 dollars on a supercharger upgrade. Turbo's provide fuel economy increases, less wear on motors over time due to their efficient nature, and are relatively inexpensive for Mustang owners.

Jas5

@coleconner

Great points. But doesnt it also largely depend on your driving style and when you want the power? For full turbo boost to come on at around 3.5-4k rpm, wouldnt they have to be mini-sized? And the bigger the turbos (for more power) = turbo lag and not full power until 5k rpm? I came from the 3000GT/VR4 world and really liked the setup and ease of simply upgrading a few components and having big turbo boost. I drove a stock VR4 and the turbo boost at around 3500 rpm was very exciting. Exhaust leaks arent fun to fix, though, which happens on a 12-20 year old car.

I think the way turbos work and sound are "cooler" than supercharging. But that doesn't go to say that I dont enjoy the whine of my 2200. It's the most quiet s/c type, and you can't even hear it when you get on it, only my exhaust/engine, but you can hear it at idle and lugging around town, just not as loud as m90/roots/etc

edit:

That sounds wrong, but to each his own.. why else are s/c so popular on these? I hardly ever see turbo setups on this forum. With my 2200, i know you can run up to 12 lbs on the pulley the comes with the kit, which is good for near or at 500whp. Easily can upgrade the pulley and skies the limit. The s/c and air cooler are good for MUCH more power (i think 900hp?). it DOES cost $6k for the entire kit (fuel pump, injectors, air cooler, etc) but is very easy install and no maintenance besides belt.

coleconner

Sir you have a centrifugal blower. By my standards this is essentially a belt driven turbo. I do not consider a centri to be ANYTHING like roots/screwed blowers. I knew someone with this exact message would come up; however, I expected it to be someone with a procharger/vortech. You made the right choice on blower as far as I'm concerned. You're absolutely right when you said, "But doesnt it also largely depend on your driving style and when you want the power?" I wasn't trying to convince someone to choose turbo over supercharger, I was only defending turbos against the masses of pro supercharger enthusiasts. When you drove that VR4, your motor would only produce 200hp to the flywheel if you got lucky WITHOUT the turbo. I would imagine you would have large amounts of lag when slapping a huge turbo on a 24v 6 cylinder. The fact is though that I've driven a 2006 V6 4.0 Mustang with a 73mm powerhouse turbo on the stock motor and there is less lag than waiting on VVT to kick in on my 2009 N/A GT. When you produce just under 300 horses before simple bolt ons, adding a properly plumbed turbo system with a 70ish mm turbo should propose no problems with lag and should be sufficient for upwards of 650-750 horses. I'm not talking about some knock off Greddy turbo here. I'm using a garrett twin scroll. It's capable of producing as much power as your Novi. You may get me for 2 seconds on the snap, but the lag is NO where near what you speak of in a Mitsubishi. I've driven a VF4 that was capable of 180+ mph, but my Dads Escalade would smoke it to 75.

Point is, I have experience in both cars. I've worked on terminators to spooners, from sti's to powerstrokes. I understand turbo lag and the steps toward prevention. Turbo's provide just as much drivability as a supercharger and are easier on your motor over time. If you are worried about not having a neck snapping launch with 10lbs on a turbo vs a supercharger... You would be wrong . I implore each of you to reconsider your ridicule on turbos.

Jas5

@coleconner

Good points... not anti-turbo here, just never see them around on the forums.

Not to start anything (and you probably dont care) but not sure what you mean when an escalade would outrun a VR4, especially with AWD launch. Those bitches scoot. Mid 13's bone stock


Just fyi the stock turbos on a VR4 are "9b" @9psi and only 50mm I believe. Just googled to refresh my memory, stock HP is 320 @ 6000rpm with 315 torque at 2500 rpm, Redline at 7k rpm. Not bad for early 90's (however first 3 years was only 300hp because of 7 or 8psi) You get plenty of power down low, the stock turbos are pretty small and only good for about 350awhp I believe. Most on my forum would upgrade to 13G or 14B sizes. I remember I was pushed back in my seat around 3k rpm. The N/A, which I had BPU, is 222hp stock (yes, slow, but the styling is definitely eye catching)

do you plan to boost your GT? slap some turbos on there!!

edit: and yes my s/c looks and works very similar to a turbo. I love it how it doesnt get hot either. Last night I got the motor warmed up and drove it hard for 5 min, s/c was cool to the touch.

Ricardo

Not trying to be a party pooper but how come there's a lot of talk like people are pros at building fast Mustangs and that yet nobody is addressing the real issues that OP will come up against in his pursuit of 11s? Most of us are shade tree mechanics at best trying to tell this guy to dump thousands into a power adder and ignoring everything else that WILL break. By no means am I more than just a mechanically inclined Mustang owner but I'd personally address these things if I was to not want to keep fixing broken parts. Yes shops do build 11 second Mustangs, but the question is do they run them as daily drivers for years without breaking something seriously expensive?

Like this... http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/g.../photo_01.html

Personally I'd wait until I had 15k saved up to build a fast GT that I can enjoy for years. But that's just me thinking ahead.

outceltj

I have not heard much about turbos either. Its never in the conversation of power adders on most forums. Just like a torque convertor never gets mentioned. I suppose thats just the way it and people are gonna go with what they know most about. Im guessing most people get on forums to discuss there options and superchargers are always brought up. But here again as I have always stressed to each member. Call the speed ship u trust the most and let them fill you in on the secrets. Where these forums are very informative there are misleading info here as well. Im not saying that anything in this thread is misleading but the op and all members should always ask the experts

kevilay

Did you read the article? Just from a glance it says they were running the stock motor in a 9.8 1/4 mile. Wonder why it broke

From what Ive read and from peoples personal experience, 450 RWHP seems to be a safe number to go with. So I will hit that and change suspension and other stuff to try to improve my time from there

Btw all this bickering is funny. Its like Ford Vs Chevy, but Turbo vs Supercharger. I will probably go with a supercharger because thats what everyone seems to go with. 5 years down the road when I start to have problems there will be alot more parts and people with solutions to problems. Ive heard of a few people with really tricky problems in their turbos.

outceltj

This is very minor compared to the s197 forum. It gets interesting there.

Ricardo

Well yeah. And after reading it one can see exactly why the GT500 is built the way it is. The point of posting the article was to give the OP a chance to weigh his choices and see what needs to be addressed as shown to us by PROFESSIONAL mechanics and not someone who just throws boost at a stock engine and calls it a day.