Those reluctant dealerships.
09-23-2005, 03:50 AM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 224
Those reluctant dealerships.
Ya gotta acknowledge them for trying to pass the buck at the slightest chance. I have taken my GT in twice now because the rear end makes a loud, low whining noise when I'm making slow speed turns (either direction). It doesn't happen all the time but enough to make it a pain to the ears.
The first time I took the car in they said they couldn't duplicate the problems (rattling in the back, rear end whine, and whole car vibration at 2500 rpm). They told me to bring it back when it happened again. I finally found the time when the car was acting up and I had the free time to take it to the dealer to show them. The service provider said she heard the noise and asked if I would take the service manager for a ride too. I said sure and she went to get him. She came back out and said he was busy but would I take a service technician for a ride. When he heard the whining noise he said, "You definitely have a problem." and I left the car with them so they could fix it. I told them that I knew people who have had the same problem and they found the rear end was shot.
A couple of hours later, I get a call and they tell me the after market exhaust system is the problem and it's not under warranty. I tell them there is no way the exhaust system is causing the rear end to whine when I turn and gave them the TSB number for just this problem. They didn't like it at all that I knew about TSBs and told me they were copyrighted by Ford and anyone who disseminated them could be in trouble. I told them I found it on the internet and they dropped the after market exhaust argument. Today I get a call and they tell me that the tires and wheels I put on the car would void the warranty for the drive train. I told them I knew about the magnuson-moss warranty act and it prohibited them from not honoring the warranty just because there were after market products on the car. They tried arguing with me for a couple of levels of management but then called me back and told me to bring the car back in when the whining happens again and the service manager would ride with me and see what they could do to rectify this problem (I'm not too hopeful by now). They told me over and over again that any modifications, made to the car by persons other than Ford, would void the warranty and Ford would show me just how tough they can be.
We'll see how things go when I take it back in.
Steve
The first time I took the car in they said they couldn't duplicate the problems (rattling in the back, rear end whine, and whole car vibration at 2500 rpm). They told me to bring it back when it happened again. I finally found the time when the car was acting up and I had the free time to take it to the dealer to show them. The service provider said she heard the noise and asked if I would take the service manager for a ride too. I said sure and she went to get him. She came back out and said he was busy but would I take a service technician for a ride. When he heard the whining noise he said, "You definitely have a problem." and I left the car with them so they could fix it. I told them that I knew people who have had the same problem and they found the rear end was shot.
A couple of hours later, I get a call and they tell me the after market exhaust system is the problem and it's not under warranty. I tell them there is no way the exhaust system is causing the rear end to whine when I turn and gave them the TSB number for just this problem. They didn't like it at all that I knew about TSBs and told me they were copyrighted by Ford and anyone who disseminated them could be in trouble. I told them I found it on the internet and they dropped the after market exhaust argument. Today I get a call and they tell me that the tires and wheels I put on the car would void the warranty for the drive train. I told them I knew about the magnuson-moss warranty act and it prohibited them from not honoring the warranty just because there were after market products on the car. They tried arguing with me for a couple of levels of management but then called me back and told me to bring the car back in when the whining happens again and the service manager would ride with me and see what they could do to rectify this problem (I'm not too hopeful by now). They told me over and over again that any modifications, made to the car by persons other than Ford, would void the warranty and Ford would show me just how tough they can be.
We'll see how things go when I take it back in.
Steve
09-23-2005, 09:52 AM
#2
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 129
RE: Those reluctant dealerships.
Hmm.. My totally unmodded Mustang makes a loud whiny noise during slow speed turns also. Where I work, I park in a parking garage and it is fairly whiny navigating to my spot. However, as I wondered why the heck my car was doing that, I noticed other cars in the parking garage that were driving around were making the same noise, all kinds of different cars and vans and whatnot. I figured it was something inherent to the design of the steering or something.
Maybe I'll see if my dealer has a fix for it. I don't usually notice it except in the garage due to the sound being confined and boucing off walls and such.
Maybe I'll see if my dealer has a fix for it. I don't usually notice it except in the garage due to the sound being confined and boucing off walls and such.
09-23-2005, 11:27 AM
#3
MF Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,441
RE: Those reluctant dealerships.
I had exactly the same thin... the tires/wheels/suspension on my Stang is total factory...
They told me they couldn't duplicate the problem.
Of course - the said the same thing about several other problems as well.
Sometimes I feel like they think I am an idiot and the problem only exists in my head!
So.. I wait for the temp/humidity/altitude/speed situation to be EXACT to recreate the issue... I guess I have to record the damn thing with my cell phone or something.
They told me they couldn't duplicate the problem.
Of course - the said the same thing about several other problems as well.
Sometimes I feel like they think I am an idiot and the problem only exists in my head!
So.. I wait for the temp/humidity/altitude/speed situation to be EXACT to recreate the issue... I guess I have to record the damn thing with my cell phone or something.
09-23-2005, 02:35 PM
#4
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 121
RE: Those reluctant dealerships.
Gianf,
The way they treated you really pisses me off. I had hesitations already buying American again (no regrets yet, I love my 'stang). But in any of these dealerships, does the service department ever talk to the sales department? I mean, customer service will control if a consumer will ever come back to that specific dealership or even back to the same car company! If I get treated like crap after purchasing the car, I won't ever buy that car again, and I'll be telling everyone I know about my experience. You would think dealerships/corporations would consider this, especially because it deals with profits. Or am I expecting too much?
Brchan
The way they treated you really pisses me off. I had hesitations already buying American again (no regrets yet, I love my 'stang). But in any of these dealerships, does the service department ever talk to the sales department? I mean, customer service will control if a consumer will ever come back to that specific dealership or even back to the same car company! If I get treated like crap after purchasing the car, I won't ever buy that car again, and I'll be telling everyone I know about my experience. You would think dealerships/corporations would consider this, especially because it deals with profits. Or am I expecting too much?
Brchan
09-23-2005, 02:37 PM
#5
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 295
RE: Those reluctant dealerships.
ORIGINAL: Professor Wizard
They told me they couldn't duplicate the problem.
They told me they couldn't duplicate the problem.
i'm waiting for my extra OEM MAF sensor to arrive, to facilitate a much faster swap b/t the C&L and OEM intakes. I'll reflash back to stock and then insist that the service rep drive my car around their parking lot so he can hear the suspension pop.
i don't get their reluctance to do warranty stuff, especially when there are TSBs out. i assume FORD is paying them to do the repair, so what diff does it make to them?
09-23-2005, 02:45 PM
#6
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 1,877
RE: Those reluctant dealerships.
ALWAYS keep your your stock equipment, i blew my tranny and had to take off alot of after market parts and put it back to stock but it was worth it, i am surprised the dealer would give u so much trouble, they get paid buy ford regaudless.mmmmm good luck, i loved the fact u had the knowledge to fight them.
09-23-2005, 04:38 PM
#7
MF Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,441
RE: Those reluctant dealerships.
The DO get paid by Ford wor Warrentee work.
However - they do NOT get paid the same (as much) as they do when YOU are paying the bill.
They have an agreement with Ford for discounted charges. YOU pay full rate.
SO.. for every fix they get YOU to pay for, is more money in their pocket.
However - they do NOT get paid the same (as much) as they do when YOU are paying the bill.
They have an agreement with Ford for discounted charges. YOU pay full rate.
SO.. for every fix they get YOU to pay for, is more money in their pocket.
09-23-2005, 04:44 PM
#8
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location:
Posts: 310
RE: Those reluctant dealerships.
Ah----so it's like medical and dental care! They would rather have the charges denied by your insurance so that you have to pay the full amount...never thought car service was like health care until now. lol
09-25-2005, 12:56 AM
#9
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 20
RE: Those reluctant dealerships.
Man, conspiracy theories abound! Okay, first of all, yes, in the scenario you gave the dealership did sound like they were really jerking you around. But, you have to take some things into consideration... First of all, they understand that the vehicles are going to be covered by Factory Warranty for around the first 2.5 years, they've already figured this in... True, they're probably getting paid a discounted rate, but it also doesn't really take as long as they're getting paid (i.e. a job that books for 3 hours might only take the tech an hour to finish). Believe me, the service department isn't sitting there rubbing their hands together and laughing deviously as they imagine the piles of cash they're going to be getting out of you, it just doesn't work that way... Any extra time they've spent arguing with you is money lost for them already...
Second, the whole question of "duplication" really is sound. If you came in with 30,000 miles and told them that you've got a popping in your suspension, or a whining in your rear end, they HAVE to duplicate that problem. I understand that there's a TSB, but only certain vehicles are going to have this problem, not all of them, and sometimes getting the vehicle to duplicate the problem is a real bitch... You notice it because you're driving around all day. A service tech is only taking it out for a couple of miles and doesn't have as much time to let the problem reveal itself as you do. Plus, what if you had a problem completely different from the TSB? That's why they have to check... Also, I'm not saying that you'd try to rip off the dealership, but there are people who look at it like "Hey, there's a TSB! I've got 30,000 miles and wouldn't mind having a new rear end!" Keep in mind that often time manufacturers require that the dealer send back your damaged part (i.e. the core). If Ford gets back a core and determines there's nothing wrong with it, they can deny the claim and the dealership is stuck trying to get the money back from you. If they do this habitually, Ford can actually make a determination to deny ALL of their warranty claims regarding that issue, forcing them to have to send their business to another dealership.
Finally, Ford, like any other manufacturer, has certain rules set up in regards to modification. Usually they're EXTREMELY specific (i.e. aftermarket wheels and tires can be only one size larger than the largest available stock wheels and tires). What you have to understand is it isn't the dealership you're at trying to **** you, it's them anticipating getting ****ed by the manufacturer. What you said about the magnuson-moss act is true, however, if you were to get into a legal battle with anyone, it'll be with Ford, not the dealership. And though the act holds that just because you use aftermarket parts doesn't mean they can void your ENTIRE warranty, however, you GOTTA believe that Ford's lawyers would make an argument in court that your choice of non-factory wheels and tires put an unanticipated, un-warrantied strain on almost anything (i.e. rear end, suspension, engine, transmission, brakes, etc.). Lots of times a dealer can just be cool and do the repair work, ignoring your mods. However, if they've already alerted Ford to the problem (like during a phone call to Ford to get authorization for your repair), it's probably out of the dealer's hands, and you'd have to make your argument with Ford directly, which may be an uphill battle.
In conclusion, please understand that there are certain rules that dealerships are supposed to operate under. Some may disregard those rules, and some may follow them to a T. As someone above said, you should really keep all of the factory equipment, just in case something like this ever happens...
Second, the whole question of "duplication" really is sound. If you came in with 30,000 miles and told them that you've got a popping in your suspension, or a whining in your rear end, they HAVE to duplicate that problem. I understand that there's a TSB, but only certain vehicles are going to have this problem, not all of them, and sometimes getting the vehicle to duplicate the problem is a real bitch... You notice it because you're driving around all day. A service tech is only taking it out for a couple of miles and doesn't have as much time to let the problem reveal itself as you do. Plus, what if you had a problem completely different from the TSB? That's why they have to check... Also, I'm not saying that you'd try to rip off the dealership, but there are people who look at it like "Hey, there's a TSB! I've got 30,000 miles and wouldn't mind having a new rear end!" Keep in mind that often time manufacturers require that the dealer send back your damaged part (i.e. the core). If Ford gets back a core and determines there's nothing wrong with it, they can deny the claim and the dealership is stuck trying to get the money back from you. If they do this habitually, Ford can actually make a determination to deny ALL of their warranty claims regarding that issue, forcing them to have to send their business to another dealership.
Finally, Ford, like any other manufacturer, has certain rules set up in regards to modification. Usually they're EXTREMELY specific (i.e. aftermarket wheels and tires can be only one size larger than the largest available stock wheels and tires). What you have to understand is it isn't the dealership you're at trying to **** you, it's them anticipating getting ****ed by the manufacturer. What you said about the magnuson-moss act is true, however, if you were to get into a legal battle with anyone, it'll be with Ford, not the dealership. And though the act holds that just because you use aftermarket parts doesn't mean they can void your ENTIRE warranty, however, you GOTTA believe that Ford's lawyers would make an argument in court that your choice of non-factory wheels and tires put an unanticipated, un-warrantied strain on almost anything (i.e. rear end, suspension, engine, transmission, brakes, etc.). Lots of times a dealer can just be cool and do the repair work, ignoring your mods. However, if they've already alerted Ford to the problem (like during a phone call to Ford to get authorization for your repair), it's probably out of the dealer's hands, and you'd have to make your argument with Ford directly, which may be an uphill battle.
In conclusion, please understand that there are certain rules that dealerships are supposed to operate under. Some may disregard those rules, and some may follow them to a T. As someone above said, you should really keep all of the factory equipment, just in case something like this ever happens...
