Problem with the Diablosport Predator
11-10-2005, 03:05 AM
#1
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Problem with the Diablosport Predator
Another bit of info I'd like to pass around. I have a Diablosport Predator for my 05 Mustang GT. I also have an accurate, calibrated coolant temperature gauge in my Stang. One of the things I wanted to do with the Predator was lower the on/off points for the electric fan to more reasonable levels. I felt that the factory settings allowed the engine to get too hot before the fan kicks in. Particularly since the GT engines have 180 degree thermostat and the stock "ON" point for the fan is something like 220 F. Certainly to cycle and engine from normal to a border line overheat condition and back again in a short time CANT be good for it. Particularly when the block and heads are alimunum which is more prone to warpage than cast iron.
At any rate, in trying one of the canned tunes that came with the Predator I noticed that once the engine got close to full operating temperature the fan just came on and stayed on. To verify this I connected the 12 volt + side of the fan to a relay which in turn operates an LED wired in series with a 860 ohm current limiting resistor and installed it inside the car. My suspicions were correct. With the modified tune the fan actually was set to come on at 180 F which is actually 2 - 5 degrees BELOW normal operating temperature. Now according to Diablosport, this is not an issue because at speeds of more than 30 mph the fan turns off. THIS IS NOT CORRECT! With Diablosport's settings my fan remained on the entire time the engine was at normal operating temp. regardless of speed. I thought this was really stupid because at speeds above 30 mph the fan simply isn't required. With the stock fan settings this would never be an issue because they are high enough that the fan would never come on at speeds above 30 mph. So I messed aound with the settings until I acheived reasonable behaviour. Now my fan turns on at 195 F and shuts off at 188 F. It cycles nicely, the engine doesn't get too hot and the fan doesn't run at speeds above 30 mph.
The whole reason for this is that having that large fan running needlessly is going to increase drag on the alternator, waste horsepower and wear out the fan prematurely. I plan on writing to Diablosport as the statment in their manual about the fans not coming on above 30 mph is not correct.
I hope some of you found my endless ramblings usefull.
At any rate, in trying one of the canned tunes that came with the Predator I noticed that once the engine got close to full operating temperature the fan just came on and stayed on. To verify this I connected the 12 volt + side of the fan to a relay which in turn operates an LED wired in series with a 860 ohm current limiting resistor and installed it inside the car. My suspicions were correct. With the modified tune the fan actually was set to come on at 180 F which is actually 2 - 5 degrees BELOW normal operating temperature. Now according to Diablosport, this is not an issue because at speeds of more than 30 mph the fan turns off. THIS IS NOT CORRECT! With Diablosport's settings my fan remained on the entire time the engine was at normal operating temp. regardless of speed. I thought this was really stupid because at speeds above 30 mph the fan simply isn't required. With the stock fan settings this would never be an issue because they are high enough that the fan would never come on at speeds above 30 mph. So I messed aound with the settings until I acheived reasonable behaviour. Now my fan turns on at 195 F and shuts off at 188 F. It cycles nicely, the engine doesn't get too hot and the fan doesn't run at speeds above 30 mph.
The whole reason for this is that having that large fan running needlessly is going to increase drag on the alternator, waste horsepower and wear out the fan prematurely. I plan on writing to Diablosport as the statment in their manual about the fans not coming on above 30 mph is not correct.
I hope some of you found my endless ramblings usefull.
11-10-2005, 03:48 AM
#2
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RE: Problem with the Diablosport Predator
I just ordered a Diablosport, I am interested. When you say you "Messed" with it, What does that mean. How exactly
were you able to achieve the settings you described?
were you able to achieve the settings you described?
11-10-2005, 04:28 AM
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RE: Problem with the Diablosport Predator
Tinpony: I went into the "Modify Parameters" section of the Predator. This is where you can modify individual parameters of whatever tune you plan to use. You will have to make you modifications to the tune first and then upload it to your car. To make the changes I did to the on/off points on the cooling fan you need to enter the "Modify Parameters section", then "Fan". There you will see the following:
Fan high speed ECT 1 ON
Fan high speed ECT 2 ON
Fan high speed ECT OFF
Fan low speed ECT ON
Fan low speed ECT OFF
Your fan is a two speed fan. Each of the values I listed above will have a value assigned to it. When adjusting, MAKE SURE THAT YOU RAISE OR LOWER ALL VALUES BY THE SAME AMOUNT keeping the spread between values the same. Otherwise you could have problems with proper cycling of the fan. The idea here is to lower cooling system temperature at vehicle speeds low enough that the fan will be required. (typically below 30 mph).
Just don't lower them too much otherwise your fan will run constantly which is no good either. As you may be already aware a lower engine temp means more power as it usually results in more dense, cooler air entering the air intake. More power.
Also, before you do anything with your Predator read the manual. It's well written and you will have a pretty good idea what you are doing if you read the manual first.
Fan high speed ECT 1 ON
Fan high speed ECT 2 ON
Fan high speed ECT OFF
Fan low speed ECT ON
Fan low speed ECT OFF
Your fan is a two speed fan. Each of the values I listed above will have a value assigned to it. When adjusting, MAKE SURE THAT YOU RAISE OR LOWER ALL VALUES BY THE SAME AMOUNT keeping the spread between values the same. Otherwise you could have problems with proper cycling of the fan. The idea here is to lower cooling system temperature at vehicle speeds low enough that the fan will be required. (typically below 30 mph).
Just don't lower them too much otherwise your fan will run constantly which is no good either. As you may be already aware a lower engine temp means more power as it usually results in more dense, cooler air entering the air intake. More power.
Also, before you do anything with your Predator read the manual. It's well written and you will have a pretty good idea what you are doing if you read the manual first.
11-10-2005, 04:33 AM
#5
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RE: Problem with the Diablosport Predator
grubeda: Give that a try. If you have any problems PM me and I'll give you the exact settings I used in my tune. Keep in mind that the temperatures I have listed above are what I see on my temp gauge and do not correspond exactly with the parameters I put into the Predator. The reason for this is that the sensor for my Autometer temp gauge and the sensor for the fan are in different locations in the cooling system so there are slight differences in temperatures.
At any rate, let me know how it goes for you and if you like I'll just look up the exact numbers I have in my tune you can use those.
At any rate, let me know how it goes for you and if you like I'll just look up the exact numbers I have in my tune you can use those.
11-10-2005, 07:02 PM
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RE: Problem with the Diablosport Predator
Yes please! If you don't mind, please let me know the values you used. I'm not sure exactly what to set it to. Also, what state do you live in and what is the temperature there this time of year?
Thanks!
Thanks!
11-11-2005, 03:02 AM
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RE: Problem with the Diablosport Predator
grubeda: No problem. I will get you the exact values either tomorow or the next day. I live in Edmonton, Alberta Canada. Temperatures here now are around 30 - 35 F but I just parked my Mustang for the winter (tucked away in the garage) but I saved the settings in a notebook and left it in the car. The temperature settings I used should work for you though as I used these settings in varying temperatures at it worked good. If you live in a particularly warm climate you might have to lower my settings by a couple of degrees but my settings will be a good place to start. I'd also recomend connecting an LED to your fan so that you can see when your fan is running and when it's not. When you are driving you can't tell otherwise. If you need help with that I can send you a simple wiring diagram.
11-13-2005, 12:12 AM
#8
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RE: Problem with the Diablosport Predator
281..Great post and thread. I tuned on my fan settings today and did some data logging ..I had no idea the 05's came with a 180 degree stat which puzzles me as to why my car runs a consistant 195-197..even with the adjusted fan settings..One question about the settings ..when you referred to the spread, if you adjust 8 degrees in the fan high on/off...do you adjust the same 8 degrees on the fan low on/off?
11-13-2005, 01:24 AM
#9
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RE: Problem with the Diablosport Predator
SCstanger - The answer to your question is yes. Always adjust all fan settings by the same amount regardless if you are adjusting up or down. What I mean by the spread is the number of degrees difference between the on/off points. There needs to be a difference of approx. 8 degrees to prevent irratic cycling.
It seems your engine is running a little on the warm side. Not hot enough to cause any problem but it runs warmer than mode does. Mine runs between 180 - 185 F. The difference could be the location of your sender and mine. Did you get your temperature reading via the data logging? If so, that could explain the difference. I am getting my readings from my Autometer temp gauge. The sender for that gauge is mounted in the coolant crossover between the heads at the top, front left of the engine.
Also, here are the settings I am using:
HIGH SPEED ETC1 ON 208F
HIGH SPEED ECT2 ON 208F
HIGH SPEED ECT OFF 200
LOW SPEED ECT OFF 193
LOW SPEED ECT ON 194
These settings work well for me. The only time my fan will run as after it has been idling for a minute or two and then it cycles between 189 - 196 on the gauge.
The rest of the time the eingine runs between 180 - 185, but again this is what my Autometer gauge is reading. The stock sensor that the computer is reading may be different because it is in a different location whihc is why I suspect yours appears to be running warmer than mine. I suspect your does not actually run warmer and that the difference is only due to the difference in sensor loactions. And yes the 05 and probably 06 GTs all come with a 180 thermostat. I got this infro directly from a PDT document from Ford that has the specifications for these cars.
So how is the data logging done? I have been meaning to try that but I have't gotten around to it yet.
It seems your engine is running a little on the warm side. Not hot enough to cause any problem but it runs warmer than mode does. Mine runs between 180 - 185 F. The difference could be the location of your sender and mine. Did you get your temperature reading via the data logging? If so, that could explain the difference. I am getting my readings from my Autometer temp gauge. The sender for that gauge is mounted in the coolant crossover between the heads at the top, front left of the engine.
Also, here are the settings I am using:
HIGH SPEED ETC1 ON 208F
HIGH SPEED ECT2 ON 208F
HIGH SPEED ECT OFF 200
LOW SPEED ECT OFF 193
LOW SPEED ECT ON 194
These settings work well for me. The only time my fan will run as after it has been idling for a minute or two and then it cycles between 189 - 196 on the gauge.
The rest of the time the eingine runs between 180 - 185, but again this is what my Autometer gauge is reading. The stock sensor that the computer is reading may be different because it is in a different location whihc is why I suspect yours appears to be running warmer than mine. I suspect your does not actually run warmer and that the difference is only due to the difference in sensor loactions. And yes the 05 and probably 06 GTs all come with a 180 thermostat. I got this infro directly from a PDT document from Ford that has the specifications for these cars.
So how is the data logging done? I have been meaning to try that but I have't gotten around to it yet.
11-13-2005, 03:16 PM
#10
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RE: Problem with the Diablosport Predator
281..The data logging procedure I have been using through the predator has been quite helpful and interesting. Go into diagnositics then real time data..Then DMR, i believe its the first option. From there it will give you a list of options to monitor. The more you check off, the shorter your data logging time. After you check the options you wish to monitor then hit escape. You will then be asked if you are ready to begin logging.
Another question on the fan. What is the use of low fan speed?..I ask this because mine was set really low with the c&l tune. I believe on at 186 and off at 178...I find this odd as i tested some more today. From a cold start to operating temp idle, the car never reached over 191..which means the high speed never had to come on, but the low speed did ..Why would the low speed be set to run constantly as it would because of the 180 thermostat would never allow it to reach below 180?
Another question on the fan. What is the use of low fan speed?..I ask this because mine was set really low with the c&l tune. I believe on at 186 and off at 178...I find this odd as i tested some more today. From a cold start to operating temp idle, the car never reached over 191..which means the high speed never had to come on, but the low speed did ..Why would the low speed be set to run constantly as it would because of the 180 thermostat would never allow it to reach below 180?