Thinking of undoing my mods
06-21-2011, 04:47 PM
#21
The Paranoid One
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,320
This is the last type of post I would have thought I be posting but here goes. My 2011 v6 has 3.73 gears, a BAMA tune (sort of) and Airraid intake. These mods did certainly make the car faster, but at the sacrifice of drivability. Let me first say I live in the congested California bay area, traffic can be nasty at times, and even when not, it's still slow going. When I bought the car, I was actually surprised at how slow this supposed 305hp car was off the line though once moving, no complaints. So anyhow I got the tuner, helped a bit, then I got the gears, after 3 tries, they helped too..the intake, eh dunno, maybe sounds quicker. Anyhow I mentioned the gears took 3 tries..a catastrophic pinion bearing failure left me stranded, it's repair left me with a leaking rear end, third time fixed the leak. Maybe going with the cheapest guy, still $500 to install wasn't the best idea..continuing on, the gears made for serious problems with my tune, had this awful bump when decelerating (from 2-1) and seriously 16!! Revisions later still not happy, they did work the bump out, but never got the shifting quite right. I think they as well as me have just got sick of trying. I'm currently running a "tune" only fixing the speedo for the gears, stock engine and transmission for now, it's the closest thing to smooth I can get in this slow moving stop and go traffic. So here I am, $379 for a tuner that's not really being used, $250 for an intake that seems only to make noise, and about $700 into gears that have killed my fuel economy 15mpg city if I'm lucky! Clunk loudly when being put into drive or reverse, but yes they did make the car leap off the line.
So I'm thinking of dumping all of it, going back to stock, slow stock, sigh.. But perhaps when the warranty is done, doing a serious mod like the pro charger, but who knows?
Thoughts?
So I'm thinking of dumping all of it, going back to stock, slow stock, sigh.. But perhaps when the warranty is done, doing a serious mod like the pro charger, but who knows?
Thoughts?
I'd say the install of the gears are your problem.
Did you take it back to the same shop every time?
After that second time I would have DEFINITELY thrown that shop to the curb and gone with a different one.
Sounds like they really screwed the pooch on the gear install and either did not know how do really do it properly on THESE Mustangs, or they did not give a damn and just tried to rush it every single time.
The CAI and tune would not give you these types of problems.
Also.. remember... if you decide to go F.I. there is a possibility of running into a different world of problems.
I'd say you still have a problem with your gears.
I say dump those gears, and take it to a different shop.
I also say make sure they use the Ford Racing gears and NOT the motive gears. Regardless of the people on the forum that say they have them and have not had trouble with them... there are way too many people that have had problem with the Motives.
Also... make sure they use a FULL install kit that replaces your bearings and ALL for crying out loud.
I dont care what people say here that have done it without a full kit.
There again are WAY too many people that have had problems when not doing the full kit that includes the bearings.
I know shops now that WILL NOT install gears without doing the full kit just because they have had so many problems when they did not.
The full install kit is only about 100 bucks I believe. Maybe less.
So in summary.
I'd take those gears out one more time, stay with the 3.73s , take it to another shop, and make sure they use the FORD RACING GEARS NOT THE MOTIVE GEARS, and make sure they use a FULL instal kit and replace the bearings and all. ESPECIALLY with the problems you have had. You also need to tell the other shop you use the hell you have gone through because of a bad gear install and let them know you are coming to them to make SURE it is done right.
Last edited by Blacksmoke; 06-21-2011 at 04:51 PM.
06-21-2011, 04:58 PM
#23
The Paranoid One
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,320
Mine is alot of if statements?
No sorry it's not.
He got a bad install. That IS what happened.
And I also have NEVER heard of 3.73's being too much on the street for these new V6's.
Plenty of people use them on the street with no problems.
He got a bad install and perhaps a bad brand of gears.
That and maybe not a full install kit.
Not having a full install kit is part of having a bad install.
He stated PHYSICAL problems with the gears, some of which would not come from the shift points being off.
BAD INSTALL.
And guess what? MANY dealerships do NOT do good installs. Many of them do few installs and some including the one in my 120k pop. city refuse to do them.
He needs to take it to a well known Mustang shop and not a dealership. Unless the dealership has someone there that is VERY experienced with these gear swaps.
My city has a guy that works at Ford and he can do them, as a matter of fact he is GREAT at it, but they wont let him just because it is their policy.
No sorry it's not.
He got a bad install. That IS what happened.
And I also have NEVER heard of 3.73's being too much on the street for these new V6's.
Plenty of people use them on the street with no problems.
He got a bad install and perhaps a bad brand of gears.
That and maybe not a full install kit.
Not having a full install kit is part of having a bad install.
He stated PHYSICAL problems with the gears, some of which would not come from the shift points being off.
BAD INSTALL.
And guess what? MANY dealerships do NOT do good installs. Many of them do few installs and some including the one in my 120k pop. city refuse to do them.
He needs to take it to a well known Mustang shop and not a dealership. Unless the dealership has someone there that is VERY experienced with these gear swaps.
My city has a guy that works at Ford and he can do them, as a matter of fact he is GREAT at it, but they wont let him just because it is their policy.
Last edited by Blacksmoke; 06-21-2011 at 05:04 PM.
06-21-2011, 05:05 PM
#24
My remark wasn't to you Blacksmoke. It was to WRXified.
Many people get away with many things, but you can do the math and find that 3.73 is far more gear than it sounds like with a 4.17 or 4.23 first gear. That is simple mathmatecal fact.
I am not at all surprised he is unhappy. If he wants driveability back, he needs to back off the gearing. What's wrong with that statement?
Many people get away with many things, but you can do the math and find that 3.73 is far more gear than it sounds like with a 4.17 or 4.23 first gear. That is simple mathmatecal fact.
I am not at all surprised he is unhappy. If he wants driveability back, he needs to back off the gearing. What's wrong with that statement?
06-21-2011, 05:11 PM
#25
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 368
There are no if's in my statements. Those are the specs for the 2000 GT you threw out there for comparison. The 2000 GT is far less forgiving with a 3.73, let alone a 4.10, then a 2011 V6.
His issue is not driveability, it's the install and crap work he had done.
His issue is not driveability, it's the install and crap work he had done.
06-21-2011, 05:55 PM
#27
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 368
Scotty - What math are you talking about? If by math you're talking about multiplying the gear ratio in question by the final gear ratio and saying it equals "X" then hell yes that math doesn't fly in these parts. What does the number "13.81" mean to anyone driving a car? It doesn't mean squat. There is a reason when someone creates a final gear calculator that it calls for RPM's, tire size, gear ratio etc. How does the number 13.81 determine a cars demeanor on the road? The simple answer is, it doesn't.
Math does fly. Have a look. Notice how close the first comparison is. Hmmm. Go figure. That's a 2011 auto V6 with a 3.73, compared to 2000 Auto GT with a 3.27. Now look at the 2nd pic. Yes, that's the 4.10 on a 2000 GT. You tell me which one you would rather have as a daily driver.
It's no hidden secret Ford's reason for going with the 2.73 on the stock V6 and it's not to make it like the old gears on Mustangs from 10 years ago. It's so they can say they get 30 mpg and compete with the v6 Camaro. That's the only engineering marvel to it. As far as the 3.31 on the the Performance package, that's so the magazines doing performance comparisons can wind it out in 3rd gear when obtaining the 1/4 mile times. Any more gear and the tester needs to make a gear change. Period, end of story.
Math does fly. Have a look. Notice how close the first comparison is. Hmmm. Go figure. That's a 2011 auto V6 with a 3.73, compared to 2000 Auto GT with a 3.27. Now look at the 2nd pic. Yes, that's the 4.10 on a 2000 GT. You tell me which one you would rather have as a daily driver.
It's no hidden secret Ford's reason for going with the 2.73 on the stock V6 and it's not to make it like the old gears on Mustangs from 10 years ago. It's so they can say they get 30 mpg and compete with the v6 Camaro. That's the only engineering marvel to it. As far as the 3.31 on the the Performance package, that's so the magazines doing performance comparisons can wind it out in 3rd gear when obtaining the 1/4 mile times. Any more gear and the tester needs to make a gear change. Period, end of story.
06-21-2011, 06:28 PM
#28
show me one more. Let's see the '11 V6 auto, 3.15 (compromise between 2.73 and 3.31)
next to the same car with a 3.73. You are about to prove my point.
I don't know your resume and you don't know mine, but I will tell you one thing I know for sure. No one wanting to drive their car to work every day would put a 3.73 gear behind a transmission with a 4.xx first gear and not pay a penalty in low end driveability. You don't care for the multiplier because you don't use it. I do care for the math because I do use it.
next to the same car with a 3.73. You are about to prove my point.
I don't know your resume and you don't know mine, but I will tell you one thing I know for sure. No one wanting to drive their car to work every day would put a 3.73 gear behind a transmission with a 4.xx first gear and not pay a penalty in low end driveability. You don't care for the multiplier because you don't use it. I do care for the math because I do use it.
06-21-2011, 06:39 PM
#30
I agree about the 2.73s, but my car has 'em and runs great with the 6 speed stick. I think you just underestimate the importance of that first gear ratio. In fact, the muncie 4 speed in my other car has a 2.56 first gear and is really happy with anything from 3.55 to 4.56. Look at how close that is to 2nd gear in the new 6 speed auto.