351 393 408
01-12-2009, 06:10 PM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 172
351 393 408
i currently have a fresh 302 with a mild h/c/i that is fuel injected and its not enough im thinking either stroke it to 331 or 347 but i am worried i wont be happy with the result alot of money and only little to gain so........
im thinking of trying the 351 route witha carb setup and i want to do a stroker like 393 or 408 and i want everyones opinion on heads for this motor and what to expect hp and torque and track times because i have seen a 393 on the internet with alum. heads made only 321 hp and 370 tq and i also have seen a 408 with 350 hp and 370 tq i just dont want to spend all of this money and make low power numbers like that are those typical numbers for these engines or if not what are typical numbers to look for with what set ups do you recommend i am really hoping to make a street car that runs in the 10s
im thinking of trying the 351 route witha carb setup and i want to do a stroker like 393 or 408 and i want everyones opinion on heads for this motor and what to expect hp and torque and track times because i have seen a 393 on the internet with alum. heads made only 321 hp and 370 tq and i also have seen a 408 with 350 hp and 370 tq i just dont want to spend all of this money and make low power numbers like that are those typical numbers for these engines or if not what are typical numbers to look for with what set ups do you recommend i am really hoping to make a street car that runs in the 10s
01-12-2009, 07:20 PM
#2
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 4,616
351 stroked $6,500 If you do the work
Used 351,Special Headers, CONV Motor Mounts, Upper, Lower Trickflow Intakes, Bigger Injectors,Correct Maf Meter, Heads, Camshaft, Brackets, Stroker Kit and Balance Job.
Ugraded trans, Beefed Up Rear. 500 hp 500 +trq
Upgraded Torque Boxes
347
$2800
380HP 370 Torque Average
May be cheaper to keep what you got and bolt on a supercharger kit and save! A 302 HCI Mild, will be more than enough to push you to 430 hp, and massive torque.
Also HP Per Cubic Inch, will make this motor POTENT
If you really want to build, a Carb setup will be easier and somewhat cheaper and cleaner looking.
Used 351,Special Headers, CONV Motor Mounts, Upper, Lower Trickflow Intakes, Bigger Injectors,Correct Maf Meter, Heads, Camshaft, Brackets, Stroker Kit and Balance Job.
Ugraded trans, Beefed Up Rear. 500 hp 500 +trq
Upgraded Torque Boxes
347
$2800
380HP 370 Torque Average
May be cheaper to keep what you got and bolt on a supercharger kit and save! A 302 HCI Mild, will be more than enough to push you to 430 hp, and massive torque.
Also HP Per Cubic Inch, will make this motor POTENT
If you really want to build, a Carb setup will be easier and somewhat cheaper and cleaner looking.
Last edited by aode08; 01-12-2009 at 07:24 PM.
01-12-2009, 07:53 PM
#3
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 172
if i go 351 it will be carbed
cam
carb
air gap intake
heads but ill have to do better heads for the 347 also
duraspark dist, cap, rotor
acc. bracket
headers
used block i can get from a friend for 50 bucks
stroker kits from chp is 800 for 393w and 1000 for 408
machine work i dont know how much
cam
carb
air gap intake
heads but ill have to do better heads for the 347 also
duraspark dist, cap, rotor
acc. bracket
headers
used block i can get from a friend for 50 bucks
stroker kits from chp is 800 for 393w and 1000 for 408
machine work i dont know how much
01-13-2009, 05:00 PM
#6
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 172
i guess whatever it takes
i was figuring afr 205 heads i guess they seem to be a pretty good choice im not sure what i wanna spend i just want the car to be a bad *** im tired of messing around with street cars
i was figuring afr 205 heads i guess they seem to be a pretty good choice im not sure what i wanna spend i just want the car to be a bad *** im tired of messing around with street cars
01-14-2009, 07:55 AM
#7
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 577
Hmm. 393 or 408. 393 does not need any clearancing for the stroke to let things move around insidethe block. The 408 needs very little work as far as clearancing so I would think the extra cost may be minimal.
Just something to think about; if you could make 1.3 HP per cubic inch and you had a 347 stroker, a 393 stroker, and a 408 stroker you would see the cubes are going to be to your advantage.
347 X 1.3 = 449.1
393 X 1.3 = 511.9
408 X 1.3 = 530.4
On a 393/408 with a carb a dual plane intake would not be a great choice on that size engine. The air/fuel needed for the 40 to 50 extra cubes will put the needs into a single plane intake like a vic jr or super vic depending on how good the heads are and the complete set up for the car.
AFR 205 heads are ok but I would lean twoard the TFS R heads or the High ports. They will out run an AFR 205 any day. Plus when you go on a 4 inch or 4.30 bore you will see the AFR style head falls into valve shrouding near the cylinder wall do to larger valve size and this will hinder flow. The High portand twusted wedge R head do not have cylinder wall shrouding near the valve do to a different valve placement in the cylinder head. Probe?CHP offer pistons on their stroker kits that have dual valve reliefs so you can run the trick flow heads or the standard valve placement Ford heads like the AFR, Edelbrock performer, rpm, and vic jr heads. The Dart, RHS, World heads all have the same valve arrangement too.
A mild 393/408 with good heads,intake,headers will run very very hard on pump gas in N/A form. The carb I would use would be a Holley HP style in 850 to 950 range and the headers would be at least 1 7/8 to 2 inch primary with 3 to3.5 inch collectors. 3 inch exhaust minimum on those cubes as well with good free flowing mufflers.
I did a 393 for a client and we have yet to run the car but I am very confident it will make 580 HP on pump gas. It has CNC ported heads that flow 330 and 235 cfm and has a cam with .670 lift with 261 and 266 @ .050. The stroker kit is from SCAT and it came with the Probe pistons with dual valve reliefs. Intake is a super vic and carb is a Pro Systems 950 HP. Headers are hooker Supper comps with 2 inch primary with 3.5 inch collectors. The mufflers are dyno max ultra flows and 3 innch exhaust. Car is a 5spd with 3.73 gears. It may like to see 4.10 but well will figure that out later. There is full MSD ingnition and we are using a mallory 140 GPH gerotor style fuel pump with 1/2 inch lines right into the carburetor bowls and a sumped factory fuel tank.
I have a good feeling this car will run 10.50( I am hoping for MORE) or better on engine when it is tuned and sorted out. And it is a street car. Slightly aggressive but a street car just the same.
The reason I do not doubt the capability of this set up is because of other stuff I have built. I run a 351 with stock crank and stock 3.5 inch stroke, stock rods, KB Hyperutectic dished pistons getting me 9.8 to 1 compression, stock heads that are ported and a flat solid cam($148.00 with $80.00 lifters) and an very good single plane intake with an 850 HP holley carb and Headman Hussler headers that are 1 7/8 primary with 3 inch clooectors through 3 inch exhaust with free flowing mufflers and it runs 10.74 @ 128 in a 3250 pound car including driver. It is not geared correctly for 1/4 mile and has traction issues as well. In a perfect world it makes enough power to run 10.40's.
The above set up is far better than mine. More cubes, better headers, more compression, beter heads, better carb, better intake, lighter car and lighter driver. We will just have to wait and see.
Joe
Just something to think about; if you could make 1.3 HP per cubic inch and you had a 347 stroker, a 393 stroker, and a 408 stroker you would see the cubes are going to be to your advantage.
347 X 1.3 = 449.1
393 X 1.3 = 511.9
408 X 1.3 = 530.4
On a 393/408 with a carb a dual plane intake would not be a great choice on that size engine. The air/fuel needed for the 40 to 50 extra cubes will put the needs into a single plane intake like a vic jr or super vic depending on how good the heads are and the complete set up for the car.
AFR 205 heads are ok but I would lean twoard the TFS R heads or the High ports. They will out run an AFR 205 any day. Plus when you go on a 4 inch or 4.30 bore you will see the AFR style head falls into valve shrouding near the cylinder wall do to larger valve size and this will hinder flow. The High portand twusted wedge R head do not have cylinder wall shrouding near the valve do to a different valve placement in the cylinder head. Probe?CHP offer pistons on their stroker kits that have dual valve reliefs so you can run the trick flow heads or the standard valve placement Ford heads like the AFR, Edelbrock performer, rpm, and vic jr heads. The Dart, RHS, World heads all have the same valve arrangement too.
A mild 393/408 with good heads,intake,headers will run very very hard on pump gas in N/A form. The carb I would use would be a Holley HP style in 850 to 950 range and the headers would be at least 1 7/8 to 2 inch primary with 3 to3.5 inch collectors. 3 inch exhaust minimum on those cubes as well with good free flowing mufflers.
I did a 393 for a client and we have yet to run the car but I am very confident it will make 580 HP on pump gas. It has CNC ported heads that flow 330 and 235 cfm and has a cam with .670 lift with 261 and 266 @ .050. The stroker kit is from SCAT and it came with the Probe pistons with dual valve reliefs. Intake is a super vic and carb is a Pro Systems 950 HP. Headers are hooker Supper comps with 2 inch primary with 3.5 inch collectors. The mufflers are dyno max ultra flows and 3 innch exhaust. Car is a 5spd with 3.73 gears. It may like to see 4.10 but well will figure that out later. There is full MSD ingnition and we are using a mallory 140 GPH gerotor style fuel pump with 1/2 inch lines right into the carburetor bowls and a sumped factory fuel tank.
I have a good feeling this car will run 10.50( I am hoping for MORE) or better on engine when it is tuned and sorted out. And it is a street car. Slightly aggressive but a street car just the same.
The reason I do not doubt the capability of this set up is because of other stuff I have built. I run a 351 with stock crank and stock 3.5 inch stroke, stock rods, KB Hyperutectic dished pistons getting me 9.8 to 1 compression, stock heads that are ported and a flat solid cam($148.00 with $80.00 lifters) and an very good single plane intake with an 850 HP holley carb and Headman Hussler headers that are 1 7/8 primary with 3 inch clooectors through 3 inch exhaust with free flowing mufflers and it runs 10.74 @ 128 in a 3250 pound car including driver. It is not geared correctly for 1/4 mile and has traction issues as well. In a perfect world it makes enough power to run 10.40's.
The above set up is far better than mine. More cubes, better headers, more compression, beter heads, better carb, better intake, lighter car and lighter driver. We will just have to wait and see.
Joe
01-14-2009, 10:58 PM
#9
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 577
No I do not because it has never been on a dyno(engine or chassis dyno) But look online for racing calculators(TCI) has one on their site and put the weight and the MPH into it and it will get you really close as to what it makes for power. You can even buy a speed calculator from Summit that is made by ATI. It is quite helpful too.
Joe
01-21-2009, 10:55 PM
#10
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: arlington,WA
Posts: 3,743
good analogy and examples wild cobra and also to the comment on a 347 cant be streetable and go 10's....eeehhhh wrong answer it can be done and is being done and will be done everytime with the right parts