2005Redfire6

Vortech FTW


I always hear about these xchargers having similar times at the track? Pound for pound the vortech makes more power and has faster time slips at the drag strip.... The fastest xcharger I have seen is Jim's 12.6xx. Also you have to incorporate cost factor. Its roughly $6000 for an intercooled xcharger, you can get an intercooled Vortech for around $4500. Gaylon, what you use your xcharger for is ideal but for the strip Vortech is the way to go!


Oh yeah, and I haven't heard of an Xcharger killed a T5.... I know of atleast 4 T5's killed by a Vortech, just sayin....

Nice Pony

You really want to open up this can of worms?

The original post simply ask "Best thing u did to your 4.0 engine?"

Now I will elaborate a further prompted by your statement.

Is everyone installing FI on their 4.0 a drag strip junkie? Answer: NO
The majority of guys just want good reliable power increase for their daily driver and I have read countless posts stating they need there Mustang to remain as reliable as it is because they can't afford any down time. Myself and JimC and others have way over 100,000 miles on a X-Charged 4.0. Personally I now have 138,000 mile on my 4.0 Mustang and 108,000 trouble free miles on my X-Charger. I changed the oil in the head unit at 100,000 miles as recommended by Eaton. Other then that just regular vehicle maintenance.

How many Vortechs do you now the have well over 100,000 miles on them without having to rebuild the head unit which is quite expensive and very common? Answer: NONE

Does the Vortech have a nice flat torque curve like the X-Charger for great street performance or for drag racing better 60ft times? Answer: NO

Have there been any T5s broken when using a X-Charger? Answer: YES
And as far as that goes even N/A cars have broken both the 7.5 differential and T5. This has a lot more to do with how you drive rather that what FI will kill a T5.

The Vortech is the best thing out there for drag racing. Answer: NO a Turbo is.
A Turbo will kill both the X-Charger and Vortech at the drag strip. The down side. There have been far more broken engine using a Turbo then X-Charger and Vortech combined. Not what your average daily driver wants to hear.

The Vortech is faster at the drag strip. Answer: Really depends on the driver and other factors. JimC is a great driver and don't forget he is driving a convertible and also a canned tune yet still gets 12.6. I haven't herd of any 11 second 4.0 Vortechs. If there are they are few and far between.

Vortechs pound for pound make more power. Answer: 0-50 more Horse Power but less overall torque depending on what tune either system is running. It also depends on which system you are running from Vortech and X-Charger.

Price for the top end Vortech 4.0 Vortech kit is: $5188.95 (Not sure if this includes a Tuner since there is nothing on their site stating it does)

Price for the top end X-Charger kit is: $5970.95 (Includes a SCT Tuner and the best technical and after sales support in the industry, hands down.)

One final note. If centrifugal super chargers are the best of all worlds why do OEM FI cars only come with either turbos or positive displacement super chargers? Answer: Overall reliability and proven performance. If OEMs thought centrifugals were a good OEM choice they would be all over them because they cost much less to manufacture.

2005Redfire6

There we go!

jdphillips73

well, i dont have Forced Induction on my car yet... so I would say the best thing i did for my engine was 8.8 rear end 3.73 gears.

Intake/Tune= made the car way more responsive
Aluminum Driveshaft= made it quicker
3.73 rear end= made it boil both tires and slam through the gears

Dwisforme05

Gaylon you really just need to copy this so you can paste it into every argument you make on xcharger vs vortech.

As for reliability my blower had WELL over 100k on it when eddie got it, and is still running strong, and in the 12s.

you have argued this with almost all of the owners of this same vortech kit, Jeremy, myself, and now eddie.

like you said tho, not everyone is a drag junkie. its proven tho that pound for pound, this kit makes more then the xcharger.


argue on.

cheers

Ares05

I think what it truly boils down to is how much money you want to spend and what you want to do with your car. One question, does vortech have any parasitic effects on MPG? be completely honest please, this is not for argument sakes this is about fact

Nice Pony

All belt driven superchargers have parasitic draw but they also have bypass valves to minimize this when not under boost. One of the other guys can chime in for the Vortech but for the X-Charger there is almost no affect on gas mileage cruising down the freeway. But if you can't stay out of the boost having fun around town the gas mileage goes way down.

Nice Pony

Eddie:
Gaylon, I have nothing against you. Just a good ole debate, bottom line is its all personal preference

Gaylon:
Hey Eddie don’t have anything against you either and also love to debate so no problem for me. I also agree it is personal preference.

Gaylon:
Is everyone installing FI on their 4.0 a drag strip junkie? Answer: NO
The majority of guys just want good reliable power increase for their daily driver and I have read countless posts stating they need there Mustang to remain as reliable as it is because they can't afford any down time. Myself and JimC and others have way over 100,000 miles on a X-Charged 4.0. Personally I now have 138,000 mile on my 4.0 Mustang and 108,000 trouble free miles on my X-Charger. I changed the oil in the head unit at 100,000 miles as recommended by Eaton. Other then that just regular vehicle maintenance.

How many Vortechs do you now the have well over 100,000 miles on them without having to rebuild the head unit which is quite expensive and very common? Answer: NONE

Eddie:
Mine has well over 100,000 miles and 3 different owners, its only been rebuilt once. Since when is $400 for a full rebuild expensive anyways...?

Gaylon:
That is $400 I have not spent on my Eaton M90 X-Charger and won’t have to for many more miles. So you can tack that onto the cost of ownership for the Vortech. Also I see a lot of post about failed seals and bearing in both Vortechs and Prochargers so yours going 100,000 miles before needing a rebuild is very good!

Gaylon:
Does the Vortech have a nice flat torque curve like the X-Charger for great street performance or for drag racing better 60ft times? Answer: NO

Eddie:
I always hear about this torque curve and these "60 foot times" but after that they fall flat on their face, hence the common 13 second ET

Gaylon:
You call beating other cars buy a few 10th falling flat on it’s face? Not hardly on top of that from most of what I have seen this has been kind of back and forth. Vortech powered 4.0 are not winning every race against an X-Charger powered 4.0.

Gaylon:
The Vortech is the best thing out there for drag racing. Answer: NO a Turbo is.
A Turbo will kill both the X-Charger and Vortech at the drag strip. The down side. There have been far more broken engine using a Turbo then X-Charger and Vortech combined. Not what your average daily driver wants to hear.

Eddie:
I never said the Vortech was the best thing for drag racing, I said it was better then the Xcharger

Gaylon:
There is a guy with a 13PSIVortech posting right in this thread that has a best time posted of 13.2. There are plenty of X-Chargers that have made into the 12s. Still debatable IMO.

Gaylon:
The Vortech is faster at the drag strip. Answer: Really depends on the driver and other factors. JimC is a great driver and don't forget he is driving a convertible and also a canned tune yet still gets 12.6. I haven't herd of any 11 second 4.0 Vortechs. If there are they are few and far between.

Eddie:
Now come on Gaylon, you're on the collective and haven't heard of a 11 second vortech? Boss 245 runs 12.00s @ 16 psi, and 11.70s @ 12 psi w/ 75 shot. Also like stated before Jim's is the fastest xcharger I have seen 12.61 I believe? And thats on radials, you do know Cameron was running 12.6's on 245 STREET tires with minimal mods, right?

Gaylon:
So you got one guy that is pushing to the limits and spraying and that makes a Vortech king of drag racing. Navbtcret running an X-Charger HiPo got a 12.1 with spray before the X-Charger intercooler was introduced. With the intercooler he probably would have been in the 11s with spray.

Gaylon:
Vortechs pound for pound make more power. Answer: 0-50 more Horse Power but less overall torque depending on what tune either system is running. It also depends on which system you are running from Vortech and X-Charger.

Eddie:
You are right, it depends on alot of factors.

Gaylon:
At least we agree on this point. LOL

Gaylon:
Price for the top end Vortech 4.0 Vortech kit is: $5188.95 (Not sure if this includes a Tuner since there is nothing on their site stating it does)

Eddie:
$5200? Everywhere I see them they are $4500 for satin finish and everything you need, add $190 for polished. You are still at roughly $4700 for a full intercooled kit versus the Xcharger $5970 for an intercooled kit

Gaylon:
The price posted is right from the Vortech online sales site.

Gaylon:
Price for the top end X-Charger kit is: $5970.95 (Includes a SCT Tuner and the best technical and after sales support in the industry, hands down.)

Eddie:
Well if thats not biased idk what is? Aren't you and the designer of the Xcharger pretty good friends? Thought so.

Gaylon:
Yes we are friends and I actually helped with design and production of the Xtreme. And you aren’t biased toward the Vortech? Geez I never would have noticed! Whats your point? There are a lot of post all over the Internet about Dave’s exceptional support and service. Try getting a hold of the owner of Vortech on a weekend for example and getting a part shipped over night as has been done for quite a few customers of Dave. Or even after hours support when doing an install. That kind of support simply isn’t going to happen with a large company like Vortech.

Gaylon:
One final note. If centrifugal super chargers are the best of all worlds why do OEM FI cars only come with either turbos or positive displacement super chargers? Answer: Overall reliability and proven performance. If OEMs thought centrifugals were a good OEM choice they would be all over them because they cost much less to manufacture.

Eddie:
Nobody said centrifugal was the best. And were not talking about OEM FI Cars? We are talking about a 4.0 mustang.

Gaylon:
You sure come across as if they are. I was just making a point to ponder on…

Eddie:
You also have to consider that the vortech has more potential then the xcharger, whats the max psi you can run on that Xcharger before you spin it? Plenty of Vortech V6's run 14-16 psi and put down 400rwhp, how about the Xcharger?

Gaylon:
Plenty? I have only seen a handful of posting pushing that much PSI with a Vortech on a 4.0. Most guys buy the kit just like they do an X-Charger from the supplier, put it on and leave it as is and maybe get a custom tune.

If this whole debate boils down to unrealized potential I guess I should bring up the MP1900 TVS upgrade I am working on. It will be good for 17PSI with a 2.6 pulley. I don’t personally plan on pushing it that far but if anybody wants too just like they have done with Vortech they will be able to. I plan on running a 3.0” pulley which will be good for 12.7PSI at the blower and around 12.0 in the manifold. So realistically around the same amount of boost as off the shelf HO Vortechs with a blower that is much more efficient then the MP90. This is not a will it ever get done project. The only outstanding piece is the inlet elbow and I already have the pattern made and first article castings in hand. It will be going on my Mustang for testing as soon as I get the castings machined. It should easily make as much horsepower as the HO Vortech kit and retain the flat torque curve of a typical roots supercharger.

@Cameron
I didn’t start this debate/argument. Eddie did by blowing smack at the X-Charger with statements like “Oh yeah, and I haven't heard of an Xcharger killed a T5.... I know of atleast 4 T5's killed by a Vortech, just sayin....” A statement like that is really reaching. I thought the smack had ended with the introduction of the Xtreme but I guess you Vortech guys just can’t let well enough alone.

As for Jeremy/your old Vortech still going strong. It has been rebuilt at a cost of $400 according to Eddie. Not one X-Charger that has been sold has had a rebuild done to it as far as I know. There are posts all the time about failed bearinsg and seals in Vortechs and Prochargers with far less than 100,000+ miles on them. When you guys say pound for pound the Vortech kit you had makes more than the X-Charger that is oversimplifying the information. The average off the shelf HO Vortech may make just a little more horsepower but it does not make more overall torque than the average X-Charger Xtreme.

Also this whole debate/argument has absolutely nothing to do with what the OP asked so why start the smack here at all? But if that is what you want, bring it on. You know me I love to debate and fill in the gaps with accurate information.

X3xMONGOOSEx3X

I really have lost the point of this thread. OP your best bet for maximum performance swap in a v8.

2005Redfire6

Same with the Vortech, as long as you stay in vacuum and out of boost it is pretty much the same fuel economy you get stock. But once you start getting in it and boosting it starts to dwindle but the worst I have gotten on a tank around the city getting on it often is 17 mpg, which isn't terrible IMO.


I simply posted what I did because it seems that most people on this forum are quick to jump all over the Xcharger, it seems like nobody really looks at their other options and what else could be done rather then an Xcharger. But in the end we all have the same interest in mind!