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Steeda Timing Adjuster

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Old 08-20-2006, 09:46 AM
  #21  
04BlueGT
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Default RE: Steeda Timing Adjuster

Didn't someone on another recent post explain that the predator adjust timing as a percentage of base timing? Does the predator allow a 40% option? The base is 10, so to get to 14, you'd need a gain of 40%. Is this correct, or were they talking out of their butt?
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Old 08-20-2006, 09:51 AM
  #22  
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Default RE: Steeda Timing Adjuster

ORIGINAL: 04BlueGT
ORIGINAL: handyandyWhat exactly does a timing adjuster do? what does it time? and what does advance and retard do? pros cons? I'm kinda new.
Simply put, it advances the engines timing between stroke and valve opening, allowing more (advance) or less (retard) air into the cylinder. More air equals more power. It leans out the a/f ratio.If you are n/a, you can add 4 degrees to the stock 10, totaling 14 degrees advance timing. You'll never use 87 octane again.If you use nitrous or have a blower, you need to retard the timing to avoid detonation, which is caused by an overly lean a/f ratio.
Dan please allow me to humbly correct a couple of things. The adjuster does nothing with valve timing and does not allow more air into the motor. Cams do that. It will advance the IGNITION timing firing the plugs earlier. Most guys adjust it to 4* extra otherwise the CEL light may come on. 93 octane should be plenty to cover 4* of timing.
Also it does not lean the mixture. Injectors, cams and computer could lean the mix. It can seem like the adjuster is leaning the mix if guys run low octane and get knock like a lean mix would also cause. I thought you didn't like or use the adjuster yourself?
For me the mnice thing about the adjuster is it adds 4* throughout the rpm range from idle to shift which will help mileage and part throttle power. I have a predator but it only advances the timing 10% at WOT. If the timing advance is 10* at WOT then it changes it to 11*. Not much. Timing would have to be 40* for it to add 4* like the manual adjuster. Now the Predator may add timing throughout the rpm range but from what I have seen it is a VERY conservative tune so nobody can hurt their motor. Mark
PS: ignition timing is the amount of crank degrees that the piston is at when the plug fires. 10* means the piston is 10* before Top Dead Center. 14* is firing the plug 4* sooner than when the timing is set at 14* giving more time for a more complete burn and thus more power. Like GT04 said too much timing advance will cause engine damage. It won't throw a rod but will damage rings and burn pistons, usually on the edge. Not good! So you can get more power but a=gain as he said be prepared to use more expensive fuel. I would use straight 93. Mark
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Old 08-20-2006, 10:00 AM
  #23  
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Default RE: Steeda Timing Adjuster

ORIGINAL: 04BlueGTDidn't someone on another recent post explain that the predator adjust timing as a percentage of base timing? Does the predator allow a 40% option? The base is 10, so to get to 14, you'd need a gain of 40%. Is this correct, or were they talking out of their butt?
Your math is 100% correct and that is why even though I have the Predator I am looking to buy the timing adjuster. I read through 17 pages of FAQS twice yesterday and one question was a question I had. The Predator raises the timing 10%, more correctly it has the capability to raise it 10%, which if it is raising the base only then it raises it to 11* at WOT ONLY. Not very much huh?
I don't think anyone was talking out their butt however they may not be fully informed about what the stock Predator tune does and I can say it doesn't do a lot. Again that is why I am looking to get a timing adjuster. Even if the Predator adjusts a bit more timing across the whole rpm range I don't think 4* more and 93 will harm the motor. I don't recommend this to anyone as that is my opinion after doing some research. It seems many guys think that adding the 10% gives them the 14* which it does not. It adds 10* to the STOCK timing. You can read it on about page 4 or 5 on their FAQ page. mark
PS: I would like to know how much if any the Predator adds to the timing curve whern the motor is not at WOT but they would call that propriety info and not give it out would be my guess. All a custom tune does is change the timing in different rpm ranges and also the A/F ratios.
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Old 08-20-2006, 10:32 AM
  #24  
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Default RE: Steeda Timing Adjuster

ORIGINAL: sweet99
Dan please allow me to humbly correct a couple of things. The adjuster does nothing with valve timing and does not allow more air into the motor. Cams do that. It will advance the IGNITION timing firing the plugs earlier. Most guys adjust it to 4* extra otherwise the CEL light may come on. 93 octane should be plenty to cover 4* of timing.
Also it does not lean the mixture. Injectors, cams and computer could lean the mix. It can seem like the adjuster is leaning the mix if guys run low octane and get knock like a lean mix would also cause. I thought you didn't like or use the adjuster yourself?
For me the mnice thing about the adjuster is it adds 4* throughout the rpm range from idle to shift which will help mileage and part throttle power. I have a predator but it only advances the timing 10% at WOT. If the timing advance is 10* at WOT then it changes it to 11*. Not much. Timing would have to be 40* for it to add 4* like the manual adjuster. Now the Predator may add timing throughout the rpm range but from what I have seen it is a VERY conservative tune so nobody can hurt their motor. Mark
PS: ignition timing is the amount of crank degrees that the piston is at when the plug fires. 10* means the piston is 10* before Top Dead Center. 14* is firing the plug 4* sooner than when the timing is set at 14* giving more time for a more complete burn and thus more power. Like GT04 said too much timing advance will cause engine damage. It won't throw a rod but will damage rings and burn pistons, usually on the edge. Not good! So you can get more power but a=gain as he said be prepared to use more expensive fuel. I would use straight 93. Mark
Also it does not lean the mixture. Injectors, cams and computer could lean the mix. It can seem like the adjuster is leaning the mix if guys run low octane and get knock like a lean mix would also cause. I thought you didn't like or use the adjuster yourself?
For me the mnice thing about the adjuster is it adds 4* throughout the rpm range from idle to shift which will help mileage and part throttle power. I have a predator but it only advances the timing 10% at WOT. If the timing advance is 10* at WOT then it changes it to 11*. Not much. Timing would have to be 40* for it to add 4* like the manual adjuster. Now the Predator may add timing throughout the rpm range but from what I have seen it is a VERY conservative tune so nobody can hurt their motor. Mark
PS: ignition timing is the amount of crank degrees that the piston is at when the plug fires. 10* means the piston is 10* before Top Dead Center. 14* is firing the plug 4* sooner than when the timing is set at 14* giving more time for a more complete burn and thus more power. Like GT04 said too much timing advance will cause engine damage. It won't throw a rod but will damage rings and burn pistons, usually on the edge. Not good! So you can get more power but a=gain as he said be prepared to use more expensive fuel. I would use straight 93. Mark
Actually, I'm not Dan, but I'm the one who made the original post. Obviously, I have rudimentary (and incorrect) knowledge of timing. However, I'm sure that 15 degrees is probably too much, yet I don't run 93 with my 14 degrees. Odd. Also, on the other thread, someone posted that our cars are variable timing and that the adjuster only operates at WOT. I was under the impression that 3V were variable, not 2V. Second, how could a mechanical device such as the TA only work a WOT? I think some bad info is being spread. I may be confused on timing, but I don't see how the TA could not function until WOT. That seems ridiculous.
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Old 08-20-2006, 10:44 AM
  #25  
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Default RE: Steeda Timing Adjuster

ORIGINAL: 04BlueGT
ORIGINAL: sweet99Dan please allow me to humbly correct a couple of things. The adjuster does nothing with valve timing and does not allow more air into the motor. Cams do that. It will advance the IGNITION timing firing the plugs earlier. Most guys adjust it to 4* extra otherwise the CEL light may come on. 93 octane should be plenty to cover 4* of timing. Also it does not lean the mixture. Injectors, cams and computer could lean the mix. It can seem like the adjuster is leaning the mix if guys run low octane and get knock like a lean mix would also cause. I thought you didn't like or use the adjuster yourself? For me the mnice thing about the adjuster is it adds 4* throughout the rpm range from idle to shift which will help mileage and part throttle power. I have a predator but it only advances the timing 10% at WOT. If the timing advance is 10* at WOT then it changes it to 11*. Not much. Timing would have to be 40* for it to add 4* like the manual adjuster. Now the Predator may add timing throughout the rpm range but from what I have seen it is a VERY conservative tune so nobody can hurt their motor. MarkPS: ignition timing is the amount of crank degrees that the piston is at when the plug fires. 10* means the piston is 10* before Top Dead Center. 14* is firing the plug 4* sooner than when the timing is set at 14* giving more time for a more complete burn and thus more power. Like GT04 said too much timing advance will cause engine damage. It won't throw a rod but will damage rings and burn pistons, usually on the edge. Not good! So you can get more power but a=gain as he said be prepared to use more expensive fuel. I would use straight 93. Mark
Also it does not lean the mixture. Injectors, cams and computer could lean the mix. It can seem like the adjuster is leaning the mix if guys run low octane and get knock like a lean mix would also cause. I thought you didn't like or use the adjuster yourself? For me the mnice thing about the adjuster is it adds 4* throughout the rpm range from idle to shift which will help mileage and part throttle power. I have a predator but it only advances the timing 10% at WOT. If the timing advance is 10* at WOT then it changes it to 11*. Not much. Timing would have to be 40* for it to add 4* like the manual adjuster. Now the Predator may add timing throughout the rpm range but from what I have seen it is a VERY conservative tune so nobody can hurt their motor. Mark PS: ignition timing is the amount of crank degrees that the piston is at when the plug fires. 10* means the piston is 10* before Top Dead Center. 14* is firing the plug 4* sooner than when the timing is set at 14* giving more time for a more complete burn and thus more power. Like GT04 said too much timing advance will cause engine damage. It won't throw a rod but will damage rings and burn pistons, usually on the edge. Not good! So you can get more power but a=gain as he said be prepared to use more expensive fuel. I would use straight 93. Mark
Actually, I'm not Dan, but I'm the one who made the original post. Obviously, I have rudimentary (and incorrect) knowledge of timing. However, I'm sure that 15 degrees is probably too much, yet I don't run 93 with my 14 degrees. Odd. Also, on the other thread, someone posted that our cars are variable timing and that the adjuster only operates at WOT. I was under the impression that 3V were variable, not 2V. Second, how could a mechanical device such as the TA only work a WOT? I think some bad info is being spread. I may be confused on timing, but I don't see how the TA could not function until WOT. That seems ridiculous.
I agree. The Steeda timing adjuster must work at all times, that is my impression and is why I would want one. That way the timing is advanced all throughout the rpm range giving more mileage and power. The 2v would have variable timing in the sense of ignition timing. If we are cruising at 40MPH the timing would be much more than 10*. I believe the 3v motors have variable VALVE timing if anything sorta like the Honda VTEC motors.
I apologize for calling you Dan as I had you confused with another blue 04GT owner! Mark
PS: 04BlueGT could you tell me how the adjuster is installed and what tools are needed? Also we are all here to learn and we ALL make mistakes. Without proper knowledge it can make for expensive purchases!
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Old 08-20-2006, 11:01 AM
  #26  
04BlueGT
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Default RE: Steeda Timing Adjuster

No problem. With the Steeda UDPs and TA, and shifting at about 2K, I went from 17.5 mpg to 20.5 average. Plus, I could feel the difference in power (seat of the pants). One of these days, I'm going to have to put it on a dyno and see what I really have. My guess is about 240 to the wheels, but I don't know really.
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Old 08-20-2006, 11:06 AM
  #27  
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Default RE: Steeda Timing Adjuster

ORIGINAL: 04BlueGTNo problem. With the Steeda UDPs and TA, and shifting at about 2K, I went from 17.5 mpg to 20.5 average. Plus, I could feel the difference in power (seat of the pants). One of these days, I'm going to have to put it on a dyno and see what I really have. My guess is about 240 to the wheels, but I don't know really.
I did an edit to a post above but would like to iknow how the adjuster installs. The fact that the pulleys and adjuster added 3 MPG is awesome! I want some of that as my 4.10's cost me some mileage. You are correct, the adjuster must work at ALL times. I sure hope it does! That is what I am looking for as I am discouraged with what the Predator did for the motor. Thanks, mark
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Old 08-20-2006, 11:07 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: Steeda Timing Adjuster

advancing your timing makes more power by compressing the air/fuel mixture more; the spark ingnites later in the power cycle. the more it is compressed the more power will be released.

the higher the octane rating gas has the more it can be compressed before it sponaniously ignites. you get detonation when the air/fuel ignites before the spark goes off. modern cars have knock sensors so if you run too low of an octane the computer will retard timing and you will lose some performance. running low octane gas would cancel out the effects of a timing adjuster.

i would recomend a tuner. you can change the tunes to run 87, 89, or 91+ octane. also the tuners are programed to advance the timing different amounts for different RPM's to maximize power and fuel economy.
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Old 08-20-2006, 11:18 AM
  #29  
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Default RE: Steeda Timing Adjuster

ORIGINAL: geetee03advancing your timing makes more power by compressing the air/fuel mixture more; the spark ingnites later in the power cycle. the more it is compressed the more power will be released.the higher the octane rating gas has the more it can be compressed before it sponaniously ignites. you get detonation when the air/fuel ignites before the spark goes off. modern cars have knock sensors so if you run too low of an octane the computer will retard timing and you will lose some performance. running low octane gas would cancel out the effects of a timing adjuster.i would recomend a tuner. you can change the tunes to run 87, 89, or 91+ octane. also the tuners are programed to advance the timing different amounts for different RPM's to maximize power and fuel economy.
Please, advancing the timing ignites the spark EARLIER not later. Later would be retarding the timing. Deisel engines will spontaneously ignite their fuel as they have very high compression. Also the 2v motors do not have knock sensors so they do not retard the timing if lknock occurs, I wish they did but only the Cobra's have them to my understanding.
I have the Predator and it is quite lame. It even says in the booklet it is tuned for stock to mildly modded cars. It has a VERY conservative tune. Yeah it allows you to advance the timing 10% in 2 rpm ranges but that is 10% of 10* so it adds 1* of advance! The timing adjuster adds as much as 10*. I can buy 100 octane unleaded which would allow more than 14* timing advance at WOT but I read that after 14* the check engine light comes on because the computer thinks the motor will be damaged, it doesn't know what octane is on the tank!
It may also advance the timing curve at part throttle but not 4* like the adjuster will. Again, conservative.
Saying the programmers are programmed to optimize spark and fuel to give the best power and mlieage is buying into their advertising. Sure the tuners have their advantages but they are far from having an optimized tune. It's a generic SAFE tune for every model mustang out there it works on. Mark
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Old 08-20-2006, 11:31 AM
  #30  
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Default RE: Steeda Timing Adjuster

sweet 99 - here are the instructions. Took less than an hour by myself. I did have a lift.

Steeda's 1996-2004 Timing Adjuster Installation Instructions

PLEASE READ ALL INSTRUCTIONS AND WARNINGS BEFORE BEGINNING INSTALLATION.


Note: This kit works with the stock crank pulley, Steeda underdrive pulleys and Auto Specialties' one-piece pulley/balancer underdrive crank pulley. If you have an underdrive pulley kit which uses the original crank pulley bolted to the front of the underdrive pulley, the Timing Adjuster will not fit
1) Set the parking brake and remove the keys from the ignition.

2) Remove the accessory belt.

3) Remove the crankshaft pulley/balancer retention bolt and crankshaft washer. Do not remove the crankshaft pulley/balancer. Clean the silicone sealer out of the front of the balancer and keyway with a knife. This will make room for the Timing Adjuster Hub to fit on.

4) Attach the steel Timing Wheel to the aluminum Timing Adjuster Hub with the bolts and washers provided. Align the timing mark with the desired timing and tighten the bolts. See the "Adjusting Timing" section at the end of these instructions. The stock factory timing setting is 10°.

5) Align the small tab on the end of the Timing Adjuster Hub with the keyway slot machined in the crankshaft pulley/balancer. Install the Timing Adjuster Hub onto the balancer with the new bolt and washer supplied. Torque the bolt to 95 lb/ft.

Note for Automatic Transmission Only:
To properly torque the retention bolt on automatic transmission cars, the engine must be held from turning by holding the torque converter. The torque converter can be accessed by removing a plug towards the front-drivers side of the transmission. (Consult a service manual for more information). Hold the torque converter from turning with a 14mm wrench.

Warning! If underdrive pulleys or a new balancer is being installed at the same time as the timing adjuster, the balancer must first be installed using the factory bolt, torque specifications and factory recommended installation procedure. Only after the balancer is properly installed may the timing adjuster be added using the bolt provided. DO NOT USE THE TIMING ADJUSTER HUB AND BOLT TO PULL THE BALANCER ONTO THE CRANKSHAFT.
6) Unplug the wiring harness from the crankshaft position sensor.

7) Remove the three A/C compressor retention bolts and pull the compressor out of the way to gain access to the crankshaft position sensor. WARNING: DO NOT REMOVE THE A/C HOSES or loosen the A/C pressure relief valve. A/C refrigerant is toxic and under high pressure. Support the A/C compressor to avoid straining the A/C lines.

8) Unbolt and remove the crankshaft position sensor.

9) Insert the magnetic pickup end of the crankshaft position sensor through the hole in the Steeda Sensor Bracket. Tip: Lubricate the o-ring with oil and twist the sensor as you apply pressure to snap the sensor into position. Bolt the position sensor to the Sensor Bracket with the new retaining bolt supplied and torque to 6-9 Ft-Lb (71-106 In-Lb).

10) Install the supplied o-ring in the groove on the Sensor Bracket boss. (see image on right)

11) Lubricate the o-ring with a drop of engine oil. Insert the round boss (with o-ring) of the Sensor Bracket into the crankshaft position sensor hole on the front engine cover. Align the bracket and install the factory retaining bolt. Torque to 6-9 Ft-Lb (71-106 In-Lb).

12) Check the clearance between the end of the crankshaft position sensor and the Timing Wheel with a feeler gauge . The gap should be between 0.012 and 0.080 inches. If it falls outside of this range, remove the Sensor Bracket, Adjuster Hub and Timing Wheel to check for dirt which could cause the parts to be out of alignment and then reinstall them. If this fails to correct the problem contact Steeda Autosports before proceeding.

13) Re-install the A/C compressor and torque the retaining bolts to 15-22 Ft-Lb. Unplug the wiring harness retainers from the engine and pull the wiring harness forward to plug into the crankshaft position sensor. Connect the sensor and secure the wires away from the A/C pulley, accessory belt, and other moving parts with the included zip ties. Install the accessory belt.

14) Double check that the timing is set to the desired setting and that the bolts are properly tightened. Thread locking compound such as Loctite is recommended. WARNING! FAILURE TO PROPERLY TIGHTEN THE BOLTS COULD RESULT IN THE TIMING WHEEL COMING FREE FROM THE ENGINE, POSSIBLY CAUSING ENGINE DAMAGE AND SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adjusting Timing


Premium grade gasoline with a minimum octane of 92 or higher is required whenever the timing adjuster is set higher than 10 degrees. Incorrect adjustment and/or inadequate fuel octane can lead to serious engine damage. Steeda Autosports is not responsible for damage due to the use or misuse of the Timing Adjuster.

1) Set the parking brake with the engine off.

2) Bump the engine over with the ignition until the timing marks can be read on the Timing Adjuster Hub. Then REMOVE THE KEYS FROM THE IGNITION.

3) Loosen the three socket head (Allen) bolts on the front of the Timing Wheel.

4) Rotate the steel Timing Wheel until the right edge of the first tooth (the tooth to the left of the gap) is aligned with the desired timing mark on the aluminum Timing Adjuster Hub. The small groove engraved on the front of the Timing Wheel points to the correct edge of the first tooth.

10° is the factory timing setting. The engraved line in the middle of the timing marks on the aluminum Timing Adjuster Hub is at the factory 10° setting. Each full line represents two degrees of advance or retard. Each half line represents another degree. For example, to advance the timing 4º more than stock set the timing at 14° (the second full line to the right of the engraved 10° line).

5) Tighten the three socket head bolts. For quick tuning adjustments at the drag strip or on the dyno, the lock washers are sufficient to hold timing adjustments if the bolts are properly tightened and checked frequently. FOR LONG TERM USE, LOCTITE â„¢ THREADLOCKING COMPOUND IS RECOMMENDED FAILURE TO PROPERLY TIGHTEN THE BOLTS COULD RESULT IN THE TIMING WHEEL COMING FREE FROM THE ENGINE, POSSIBLY CAUSING ENGINE DAMAGE AND SERIOUS PERSONAL INJURY.
Picture Shows Timing Set At 14°
Adjustment Guidelines

Warning:
Listed below are recommended general starting points only! There is no substitute for Dynamometer and track tuning by an experienced technician. These settings will need to be adjusted for best performance after experimentation on the specific vehicle in use. Steeda is not responsible for variations in individual vehicles or damage/loss that occurs due to those variations. Always listen for detonation (pinging) when driving the vehicle. If detonation occurs, retard the timing until the detonation is eliminated.

Some Timing Settings by vehicle ("Starting points" only - see note above):
Naturally Aspirated (no Supercharger or Nitrous) GT or Cobra
1996-1998: 14° to 16°
1999-2002: 12° to 14° Note: 1999 and newer Mustangs may experience some "bucking" during part throttle operation if the timing is set above 13°. This will not affect full throttle performance.
Centrifugal Supercharged (Vortech, Powerdyne, Paxton) 1996-1998 GT with no computer chip: Start with 14 and then subtract 1° for every 2 psi of boost (example for 10 psi: 14°-5=9°)
Vortech Supercharged 1996-1998 Cobra with no timing adjustments made by computer chip: Start with 9 and then subtract 1° for every 2 psi of boost (example for 8 psi: 9°-4=5°)
For Nitrous Oxide and Roots (Ford SVO) or Screw (Kenne Bell) type superchargers, consult the manufacturer and a te
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