Is Anything but FI Really Worth It??
11-02-2006, 09:02 AM
#21
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 1,178
RE: Is Anything but FI Really Worth It??
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Other than staying N/A, the 2v motor will make just as much power up until about 600~ to the tire.Honestly, both cars are limited at about 450 WHP by the stock shortblock. Before that, both the 2v and 4v will make that much with just boltons and the blower. If your intent is to go FI, and you want to make enough power that it requires a shortblock, the 2v can get it done cheaper (assuming you have the 2v already) than buying a new 4v all the way up to about 600-650. If you really need more than about 600 to the tire, then the 4v makes since, other than that it doesn't
Price up a H/C/I swap, and don't forget to include the new shortblock you will need to handle the RPM needed to make power. 1500~ for heads, 1300 for itake (P-51 only current decent intake for a built motor) 600 for cams and springs, 3500~ for a shortblock. And this doesn't even include all the "little" stuff that needs to add up. Do all that, and your STILL slower than a bone stock car with a blower. And yes, there are boltons only cars going mid 12s now, but with 1.4 and 1.5 60' times. Its all launch, lots of money in the suspension, and your still getting raped by stock LS1s on the street...
ORIGINAL: DaMach04if i had a 2V....i would just replace it with a 4V and start bolting on and moding...
I know everyones saying s/c. ya you can run 12s with a s/c no problem. But i have seen a fairly full bolt on car with h/c/i +gears and Drs do 12s? i dont remeber who it was but some one on here did it correct me if im wrong ill try and find who it was. So i believe its just who wants to do what with the money or butget they have.
11-02-2006, 09:28 AM
#22
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Clarksville TN
Posts: 6,828
RE: Is Anything but FI Really Worth It??
F*ck what everyone else says, to what you wanna do. Exhaust, headers, midpipe, CAI, t/b and plenum, gears, and a good tune would get you mid 13's and you would have fun getting there, just doing the mods and seeing results. After these mods I would look into getting some suspension mods such as springs, struts, shocks, c/c plates, engine mounts and some good drag radials. These mods and a good driver I could see 12's, and maybe with some cams and head work and a nice tune, I could see 11's, N/A if that.
11-02-2006, 11:51 AM
#23
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pittsburgh/Dayton
Posts: 3,062
RE: Is Anything but FI Really Worth It??
ORIGINAL: 01SilverGT
F*ck what everyone else says, to what you wanna do. Exhaust, headers, midpipe, CAI, t/b and plenum, gears, and a good tune would get you mid 13's and you would have fun getting there, just doing the mods and seeing results. After these mods I would look into getting some suspension mods such as springs, struts, shocks, c/c plates, engine mounts and some good drag radials. These mods and a good driver I could see 12's, and maybe with some cams and head work and a nice tune, I could see 11's, N/A if that.
F*ck what everyone else says, to what you wanna do. Exhaust, headers, midpipe, CAI, t/b and plenum, gears, and a good tune would get you mid 13's and you would have fun getting there, just doing the mods and seeing results. After these mods I would look into getting some suspension mods such as springs, struts, shocks, c/c plates, engine mounts and some good drag radials. These mods and a good driver I could see 12's, and maybe with some cams and head work and a nice tune, I could see 11's, N/A if that.
Uhh and youll spend way more getting there, have you ever ran your car? Just dont knock seconds off. Cams would be your only real difference.
11-02-2006, 12:46 PM
#24
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 782
RE: Is Anything but FI Really Worth It??
i dont know, i have a 75mm tb, plenum, predator, kn intake, upr xpipe and a jba cat back and my car will RAPE a stock gt. it runs heads up with 3v gts and GTOs. i dont think thats to bad for the $$$ i got every thing off ebay for cheap.
11-02-2006, 03:07 PM
#25
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 109
RE: Is Anything but FI Really Worth It??
with all my mods is spent about 5k in parts and 10.5:1 compression ratio. last firday i raced a 6.0L GTO LS2 and beat it by a car and a half then i let off. i seriously doubt my car is running 13 flat, so he was prob a bad shifter but still. having full bolt-ons -cat back thats not bad for the cash. now once i work up my suspension, 3.73, vt stage 1, tune, and 315's there is no doubt that i will hit 12's. then i can grow even more by adding a s/c on. if i went s/c first i would of been making too much power to notice a diff for when i did my bolt-ons and would of looked at them as a waste of money.
11-02-2006, 03:10 PM
#26
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 87
RE: Is Anything but FI Really Worth It??
H/C/I with gears, tune and some suspension mods-cheaper then FI/both capable of making your car running 12s!! Just depends on what you have for $$$$ at the time! Its all about the money. I could get stg 1 cams($600), Heads(there are a few ways to do this, getting new P&P heads like the patriot stag 1 or 2s, or just P&P your on PI heads which would be cheaper) (Between 400-1300 depending what you do), intake-(P51 with fuel rails($1000). Well throw in some suspension mods($400). Pluse install on all of this well say $1000-1500 if that. Total=between $2000-4000 with solid outcomes. The p51 wouldnt be needed, depends on what you want(If you already have an aftermarket Plenum or what not). So nock off 1000 to the total($2000-3000). Still cheaper then a s/c, dont get me wrong i would love to have all that sH**!! but i wouldnt get a s/c without an aftercooler! which starts to get expensive + install on the s/c with the kit your talkin between $4000-5500(if anything maybe more)
11-02-2006, 03:16 PM
#27
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,394
RE: Is Anything but FI Really Worth It??
you would be a dumbass to swap a mach 1 motor anyway ... unless your gt motor is shot that is pretty much a worthless upgrade - for 2500 you can forged internals for your GT installed and be ready to boost to 600 - 800 hp - they price comparison doesnt exist - GTs are the smarter buy bar none - yea na cobras are better - but your going to change it all anyway so why waste it - the mach 1 motor wont take you any further than a GT motor really - now an 03-04 cobra motor is another story - even though its still not a economically smart as swapping interals - it is "easier" and has a higher peace of mind factor
All that said I just forging my bottom end and port/polishing my heads and the GT motor will take me to 800 hp...
You can call BS if you want but look it up and youll see Im right - Hell I know a local tuner whos car has stock heads - stock pistons - and forged rods and crank putting 700 rwhp with a procharger f-1r
All that said I just forging my bottom end and port/polishing my heads and the GT motor will take me to 800 hp...
You can call BS if you want but look it up and youll see Im right - Hell I know a local tuner whos car has stock heads - stock pistons - and forged rods and crank putting 700 rwhp with a procharger f-1r
11-02-2006, 03:32 PM
#28
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: Is Anything but FI Really Worth It??
ORIGINAL: tstang2000
H/C/I with gears, tune and some suspension mods-cheaper then FI/both capable of making your car running 12s!! Just depends on what you have for $$$$ at the time! Its all about the money. I could get stg 1 cams($600), Heads(there are a few ways to do this, getting new P&P heads like the patriot stag 1 or 2s, or just P&P your on PI heads which would be cheaper) (Between 400-1300 depending what you do), intake-(P51 with fuel rails($1000). Well throw in some suspension mods($400). Pluse install on all of this well say $1000-1500 if that. Total=between $2000-4000 with solid outcomes. The p51 wouldnt be needed, depends on what you want(If you already have an aftermarket Plenum or what not). So nock off 1000 to the total($2000-3000). Still cheaper then a s/c, dont get me wrong i would love to have all that sH**!! but i wouldnt get a s/c without an aftercooler! which starts to get expensive + install on the s/c with the kit your talkin between $4000-5500(if anything maybe more)
H/C/I with gears, tune and some suspension mods-cheaper then FI/both capable of making your car running 12s!! Just depends on what you have for $$$$ at the time! Its all about the money. I could get stg 1 cams($600), Heads(there are a few ways to do this, getting new P&P heads like the patriot stag 1 or 2s, or just P&P your on PI heads which would be cheaper) (Between 400-1300 depending what you do), intake-(P51 with fuel rails($1000). Well throw in some suspension mods($400). Pluse install on all of this well say $1000-1500 if that. Total=between $2000-4000 with solid outcomes. The p51 wouldnt be needed, depends on what you want(If you already have an aftermarket Plenum or what not). So nock off 1000 to the total($2000-3000). Still cheaper then a s/c, dont get me wrong i would love to have all that sH**!! but i wouldnt get a s/c without an aftercooler! which starts to get expensive + install on the s/c with the kit your talkin between $4000-5500(if anything maybe more)
To run 11s N/A you will need:
Heads 1200-1700. 400 bucks MIGHT get you a basic P&P job, not gonna run 11s with em.
Cams: 550
valvesprings: 200
Some sort of intake, 500-1300
Forged shortblock assembly: 2800-3500+
On the low end, your at about 5250, on the high about 7250.
Now add all the boltons, gears, tune, etc etc etc....
Or, you could get a 4000 dollar vortech kit, and make more horsepower on a stock car..
Simply put, budget for budget, no way at any point is a N/A car going to outrun a FI one. Remeber that the people you see running low 12s/high 11s N/A are usually NOT at stock weight, and many if not all are running very expensive engine setups (7K-10K). They are getting great times because of very low 60' times as well.
What this all means is, the car is pretty fast at the strip, but in the end you still only have about 340 WHP. Assuming that suspension and car weight is the same, a stock mustang with a vortech and a powerpipe should outrun it pretty easy... 4K or 10K its your choice.
People think that they can save money staying n/a, but the reality is you spend more. Superchargers look more expensive, but once you get over the 4k cost upfront you are way ahead.
11-02-2006, 03:35 PM
#29
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: Is Anything but FI Really Worth It??
www.KarKraft.com has Mach 1 motors for $3900. I agree a 2v is quite limited as I have spent $2430. to take off .5 and add 5-6mph in the 1/4. Basically I have a 14.0 at 100 mph car but with drag radials and a 3K stall converter I believe I could hit a 13.5 but 1/4 in not my thing. I prefer the power. Mark
The inital cost of the 4v would pay for a FI setup on a 2v... and thats one hell of alot faster than a stock mach 1 motor could ever be.
If you decide to buy a mach motor and then supercharge it, you need to spend the 4k on the blower and 3900 on the mach 1 setup. And then you still need to forge the shortblock to make more than about 450 whp. OR you could spend the 4K on the blower and the 3500 from the new engine on a forged assembly, and make alot more power for less..
The only point a 4v becomes a big advantage is making real big numbers (over 600 WHP). If you honestly can afford to make this kind of power with a proper setup you don't need to worry about costs anyway.
11-02-2006, 03:49 PM
#30
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 782
RE: Is Anything but FI Really Worth It??
i think the 4v motors have a lot flatter torque curve, therefore making more average hp. there for making them faster on the street. in other words a 450hp mach1 will out perform a 450hp GT assuming all other variables equal.