Will headers cause a car to run lean?
11-03-2006, 08:35 PM
#21
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: same as you.
Posts: 3,287
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
yeah, so far LT's are BY FAR the best thing i have done to my car.(gears comming soon after TKO500) but its a totally different car with LT's on it. and i Run lean to. maybee a Dyno Tune will Fix??
11-03-2006, 08:50 PM
#22
Pro. B.S. caller outer
Join Date: May 2004
Location: IL
Posts: 9,644
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: sweet99
Do the smart thing and SKIP the LT's. They will not add any power. A vendor with a dyno told me that headers should be the LAST mod if you want to get the last bit of power from the 4.6. Emphasize the BIT! Another member here has a brother with a dyno and his BBK's added ZERO power even dyno tuned.
Ford did a good job with this motor/car. The exhaust has an H-pipe, 2.25" MANDREL bent tubing. If it were me I would get a pair of Dynomax mufflers welded in place of the stockers, maybe replace the mid pipe if you can run without cats where you are.
I've got a PYPES catted X-pipe and catback with straight thru Race Pro mufflers that I would be willing to sell as I would do the weld in mufflers myself. I would keep my X-pipe so the catback is available. mark
Do the smart thing and SKIP the LT's. They will not add any power. A vendor with a dyno told me that headers should be the LAST mod if you want to get the last bit of power from the 4.6. Emphasize the BIT! Another member here has a brother with a dyno and his BBK's added ZERO power even dyno tuned.
Ford did a good job with this motor/car. The exhaust has an H-pipe, 2.25" MANDREL bent tubing. If it were me I would get a pair of Dynomax mufflers welded in place of the stockers, maybe replace the mid pipe if you can run without cats where you are.
I've got a PYPES catted X-pipe and catback with straight thru Race Pro mufflers that I would be willing to sell as I would do the weld in mufflers myself. I would keep my X-pipe so the catback is available. mark
11-03-2006, 08:53 PM
#23
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: middletown, ohio
Posts: 516
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
just adding my headers before any tune was a 18hp gain on the dyno! may i suggest getting a dyno tune after headers are installed, therefore your a/f ratio can be checked and worked out while on the dyno.
11-04-2006, 08:27 AM
#24
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx
2000 - You just never know. You know there have been 2v's, and 4v's out there that will blow really easy... not only on how it's driven while lean/rich - but also, how it was driven before that.
Yes, running to rich can cause damage to the interior of the motor, might take a lil bit longer then being to lean - but it CAN HAPPEN. Personally, when it comes to my cars, i'd rather be safe then sorry... spend more now, to avoid spending more later. So that's how I dish out advice.
2000 - You just never know. You know there have been 2v's, and 4v's out there that will blow really easy... not only on how it's driven while lean/rich - but also, how it was driven before that.
Yes, running to rich can cause damage to the interior of the motor, might take a lil bit longer then being to lean - but it CAN HAPPEN. Personally, when it comes to my cars, i'd rather be safe then sorry... spend more now, to avoid spending more later. So that's how I dish out advice.
And there is also no way you will do damage to your engine running it too rich. There is simply no way you could get the tune so rich that there might be engine damage (not sure exactly how running rich would damage it either) and still have the car acutally run down the road.
11-04-2006, 12:08 PM
#25
Pro. B.S. caller outer
Join Date: May 2004
Location: IL
Posts: 9,644
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
There is simply no way, no how, that a n/a 4.6L 2v engine will have any damage, no matter how long it is driven, by a simple LT header install. The headers WILL NOT throw the a/f off that much. You are going to need to be up in the 15.5+ A/F range if not more to acutally damage a n/a 2v. In any case, the engine will go rich, not lean.
And there is also no way you will do damage to your engine running it too rich. There is simply no way you could get the tune so rich that there might be engine damage (not sure exactly how running rich would damage it either) and still have the car acutally run down the road.
ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx
2000 - You just never know. You know there have been 2v's, and 4v's out there that will blow really easy... not only on how it's driven while lean/rich - but also, how it was driven before that.
Yes, running to rich can cause damage to the interior of the motor, might take a lil bit longer then being to lean - but it CAN HAPPEN. Personally, when it comes to my cars, i'd rather be safe then sorry... spend more now, to avoid spending more later. So that's how I dish out advice.
2000 - You just never know. You know there have been 2v's, and 4v's out there that will blow really easy... not only on how it's driven while lean/rich - but also, how it was driven before that.
Yes, running to rich can cause damage to the interior of the motor, might take a lil bit longer then being to lean - but it CAN HAPPEN. Personally, when it comes to my cars, i'd rather be safe then sorry... spend more now, to avoid spending more later. So that's how I dish out advice.
And there is also no way you will do damage to your engine running it too rich. There is simply no way you could get the tune so rich that there might be engine damage (not sure exactly how running rich would damage it either) and still have the car acutally run down the road.
11-04-2006, 04:16 PM
#26
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: JD1969
If an engine is run VERY rich for a VERY long period of time the fuel will "wash down" the cyclinder walls and cause the rings to wear. This is not very common in a fuel injected engine, it is seen more often with a carb.
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
There is simply no way, no how, that a n/a 4.6L 2v engine will have any damage, no matter how long it is driven, by a simple LT header install. The headers WILL NOT throw the a/f off that much. You are going to need to be up in the 15.5+ A/F range if not more to acutally damage a n/a 2v. In any case, the engine will go rich, not lean.
And there is also no way you will do damage to your engine running it too rich. There is simply no way you could get the tune so rich that there might be engine damage (not sure exactly how running rich would damage it either) and still have the car acutally run down the road.
ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx
2000 - You just never know. You know there have been 2v's, and 4v's out there that will blow really easy... not only on how it's driven while lean/rich - but also, how it was driven before that.
Yes, running to rich can cause damage to the interior of the motor, might take a lil bit longer then being to lean - but it CAN HAPPEN. Personally, when it comes to my cars, i'd rather be safe then sorry... spend more now, to avoid spending more later. So that's how I dish out advice.
2000 - You just never know. You know there have been 2v's, and 4v's out there that will blow really easy... not only on how it's driven while lean/rich - but also, how it was driven before that.
Yes, running to rich can cause damage to the interior of the motor, might take a lil bit longer then being to lean - but it CAN HAPPEN. Personally, when it comes to my cars, i'd rather be safe then sorry... spend more now, to avoid spending more later. So that's how I dish out advice.
And there is also no way you will do damage to your engine running it too rich. There is simply no way you could get the tune so rich that there might be engine damage (not sure exactly how running rich would damage it either) and still have the car acutally run down the road.
But there simply isn't any way a set of headers will do this to your car.
11-04-2006, 05:00 PM
#27
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,893
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
I never said it would. I simply said, that it could contribute - anytime you modify your car (N/A or not) you should have it recalibrated - not only for optimal performance, but to keep your car running in prime condition. I am not saying that if he doesn't get it tuned that it would blow up tomorrow or anything like that. I don't know about you but most people want there cars running for a long, long time - how do you think all these engines stay alive for as long as they do? Because the owners take great care of them.
Again, I wasn't saying any of this to fix a problem that would be created in the near future, but in the future. Being to lean will cause a big problem soon, and it doesn't have to be 15.5+ everytime, cars have blown up on mixtures richer then that... Having all that crap in your engine is what creates big problems later... It does happen. Very rarely, but it does happen. You just think it "can't" happen to you. Which if you really do think that, you're in for a surprise. I am done defending my point. Take it for what it's worth.
Oh, and also - Whoever said that Headers was the best thing they've done to thier car - you need to get in the shop more
.
Oh sidebar: if you're running rich, you're also leaving valuable horsepower on the table. Do yourself a favor and get a tune, a real tune - not one of these mail order ones.
Again, I wasn't saying any of this to fix a problem that would be created in the near future, but in the future. Being to lean will cause a big problem soon, and it doesn't have to be 15.5+ everytime, cars have blown up on mixtures richer then that... Having all that crap in your engine is what creates big problems later... It does happen. Very rarely, but it does happen. You just think it "can't" happen to you. Which if you really do think that, you're in for a surprise. I am done defending my point. Take it for what it's worth.
Oh, and also - Whoever said that Headers was the best thing they've done to thier car - you need to get in the shop more
.Oh sidebar: if you're running rich, you're also leaving valuable horsepower on the table. Do yourself a favor and get a tune, a real tune - not one of these mail order ones.
11-04-2006, 06:35 PM
#28
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx
I never said it would. I simply said, that it could contribute - anytime you modify your car (N/A or not) you should have it recalibrated - not only for optimal performance, but to keep your car running in prime condition. I am not saying that if he doesn't get it tuned that it would blow up tomorrow or anything like that. I don't know about you but most people want there cars running for a long, long time - how do you think all these engines stay alive for as long as they do? Because the owners take great care of them.
Again, I wasn't saying any of this to fix a problem that would be created in the near future, but in the future. Being to lean will cause a big problem soon, and it doesn't have to be 15.5+ everytime, cars have blown up on mixtures richer then that... Having all that crap in your engine is what creates big problems later... It does happen. Very rarely, but it does happen. You just think it "can't" happen to you. Which if you really do think that, you're in for a surprise. I am done defending my point. Take it for what it's worth.
Oh, and also - Whoever said that Headers was the best thing they've done to thier car - you need to get in the shop more.
Oh sidebar: if you're running rich, you're also leaving valuable horsepower on the table. Do yourself a favor and get a tune, a real tune - not one of these mail order ones.
I never said it would. I simply said, that it could contribute - anytime you modify your car (N/A or not) you should have it recalibrated - not only for optimal performance, but to keep your car running in prime condition. I am not saying that if he doesn't get it tuned that it would blow up tomorrow or anything like that. I don't know about you but most people want there cars running for a long, long time - how do you think all these engines stay alive for as long as they do? Because the owners take great care of them.
Again, I wasn't saying any of this to fix a problem that would be created in the near future, but in the future. Being to lean will cause a big problem soon, and it doesn't have to be 15.5+ everytime, cars have blown up on mixtures richer then that... Having all that crap in your engine is what creates big problems later... It does happen. Very rarely, but it does happen. You just think it "can't" happen to you. Which if you really do think that, you're in for a surprise. I am done defending my point. Take it for what it's worth.
Oh, and also - Whoever said that Headers was the best thing they've done to thier car - you need to get in the shop more
.Oh sidebar: if you're running rich, you're also leaving valuable horsepower on the table. Do yourself a favor and get a tune, a real tune - not one of these mail order ones.
running a n.a 2v car with full boltons including the LTs will not hurt it. It will also run forever like this.
People are telling you things about your blown 03/04 there, and its true, but it simply is not with the 2v engine. You are not gonna see a n/a 2v pop with a 15.5 A/F ratio because of the engine leaning out. It isn't gonna run good, but no harm will come of it.
The a/f ratio is simply not that important (so far as engine damage) on a n/a 4.6L unless it is WAY out of wack. Its just very hard to do any damage on a n/a engine this way.
Regardless, you will pick up power from a tune to bring the a/f ratio in line. I would recommend anyone who is at a stopping point with boltons (aka car will be like that for awhile) to get a custom dyno tune. But if you plan on getting more parts in a few months I would skip it.
11-04-2006, 07:28 PM
#29
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,893
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
The only thing im adding to this.. is this... I am not talking about my experiances with my Cobra. I am referring to things about a 2v, if you remember - I had a 2004 GT - that included LT headers... and I was also using a close friends 03' GT as a personal example without saying it - He had my setup almost exactly - minus tune. He needed a new motor because he was running much to lean, and it popped - he gave me a nice laundry list of things that went wrong. The A/F was in the 15's I believe.. I'd have to ask him when I see him, if he remembers... Again, I never said it happens a lot, but it does happen - that's it. 2000, I respect your opinion on here, and it shows you know what you're talking about - but i think sometimes you forget about the exceptions to the rule. By rule - you're right, but rules are made to be broken.
I stand by my point, that headers are one of the last things i'd do. Honestly, because cams NEED a tune, I would probably do headers + cams at the same time, but not before I put in a better clutch and made sure my tranny was ok... well that's assuming you want to do cams...
I stand by my point, that headers are one of the last things i'd do. Honestly, because cams NEED a tune, I would probably do headers + cams at the same time, but not before I put in a better clutch and made sure my tranny was ok... well that's assuming you want to do cams...
11-04-2006, 08:28 PM
#30
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nashville/Knoxville, Tennessee
Posts: 4,687
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
when i installed my headers over a year ago.... my car gained alot of top end and mid power.... it felt quicker and torquier. and also had an awesome sound...