Road Race build
09-21-2007, 02:02 AM
#11
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 688
RE: Road Race build
ORIGINAL: ponysnake99
You used [IMG] instead of [img], [img] is used in post and [IMG] is used in signatures<-Thanks!
I've driven the car around the track and here are my first impressions and why I was thinking of doing the above mentioned mods:
Car has WAAAAYY to much understeer!
Solution: Adjustable rear sway bar <- it will help some, the main problem is in the front suspension geometry/weight bias, if you get serious, you'll need to get rid of the modified macpherson system in favor of a coil-over or SLA system.
Hmmmmm....OK....So if I go this route what would your suggestion be? My friend has the same exact car I have with a MM Max Grip Box!The Kit comes with a tubular K-member and coilover conversion among other things! Have you heard any good or bad things about this kit? I drove it and it definitely improved the handling of the car although it wasn't as grippy as I thought it should be for it being the "Max Grip" although he hadn't installed the torque arm and some of the other components yet!
Car wallows over like a stuck pig on turn!
Solution: Steeda Comp Springs and Tokico D-specs <- very good choice for a budget racer
If you have experience with it, how would this compare with the MM Max Grip Box?I know that the kit is much more extensive but using the Steeda springs and the Tokico D-specs as a starting point, do you think it would be better to go that route and mix and match parts or go with the MM Max Grip Kit? Thekit comes with the following:
[*]MM Strut Tower Brace[*]MM K-Member[*]MM Front Control Arms w/ urethane bushings[*]MM Front Coil-Over Conversion Kit[*]MM Adjustable Tie-Rod Ends[*]MM Standard Torque-arm[*]MM K-Member Brace[*]Solid steering shaft[*]MM Full Length Subframe Connectors[*]MM Aluminum rack bushings[*]MM Panhard Bar with Aluminum rod[*]MM Adjustable Rear Swaybar[*]MM Caster/Camber Plates*[*]MM Rear Lower Control Arms without spring perch or swaybar mount[*]Hypercoil Coil-Over Springs[*]MM Rear Coil-Over Conversion Kit[*]Bilstein HD struts & shocks[*]Urethane swaybar bushings[*]Urethane swaybar endlinks
I'm trying to decide if I should just go with their kitor piece together the suspension! Also, I've heard people complain about the Bilstein HD's! They seem to like the Tokico D-Specs better! Any idea why?
Car feels sloppy and dull as I enter turn and through exit transition from turn to straight!
Solution: Panhard bar for better axle location <- David_K, a professional racer on this site uses a watts link, and a panhard is a great starting point
I've read that by installing the springs my ride height will change around 1 1/4" which will change the pinion angle and that I should change out the LCA to an adjustable one so that I can readjust it to correct the pinion angle. Is this correct?
To some degree, I do not see a 1.25" drop affecting pinion angle in the way you say it is. Pinion angle is affected because it is in referece to vehicle height, but keep in mind the front of the car is coming down to so it balances out with the driveshaft angle. Since both sides of the car come down 1.25" then the pinion angle stays relative to the driveshaft angle and you don't get any bind. But a pinion angle closer to 0* will always transfer more power...maybe if you modify the engine and tranny mounts *cough cough*
I'm no suspension expert, and would love to see the article that you got this information from...maybe i'm missing something. Adjustible LCA's can't hurt though right?
See Above!
BTW I have a partial sponsorshipfrom Wilwood Engineering(Brakes) that I got since I'm building the car in the post below so I might get a sponsor discount on some 6 piston fronts and 4 piston rears!
Your input and knowledge are greatly appreciated!(I sound like a fortune cookie!)
John
You used [IMG] instead of [img], [img] is used in post and [IMG] is used in signatures<-Thanks!
I've driven the car around the track and here are my first impressions and why I was thinking of doing the above mentioned mods:
Car has WAAAAYY to much understeer!
Solution: Adjustable rear sway bar <- it will help some, the main problem is in the front suspension geometry/weight bias, if you get serious, you'll need to get rid of the modified macpherson system in favor of a coil-over or SLA system.
Hmmmmm....OK....So if I go this route what would your suggestion be? My friend has the same exact car I have with a MM Max Grip Box!The Kit comes with a tubular K-member and coilover conversion among other things! Have you heard any good or bad things about this kit? I drove it and it definitely improved the handling of the car although it wasn't as grippy as I thought it should be for it being the "Max Grip" although he hadn't installed the torque arm and some of the other components yet!
Car wallows over like a stuck pig on turn!
Solution: Steeda Comp Springs and Tokico D-specs <- very good choice for a budget racer
If you have experience with it, how would this compare with the MM Max Grip Box?I know that the kit is much more extensive but using the Steeda springs and the Tokico D-specs as a starting point, do you think it would be better to go that route and mix and match parts or go with the MM Max Grip Kit? Thekit comes with the following:
[*]MM Strut Tower Brace[*]MM K-Member[*]MM Front Control Arms w/ urethane bushings[*]MM Front Coil-Over Conversion Kit[*]MM Adjustable Tie-Rod Ends[*]MM Standard Torque-arm[*]MM K-Member Brace[*]Solid steering shaft[*]MM Full Length Subframe Connectors[*]MM Aluminum rack bushings[*]MM Panhard Bar with Aluminum rod[*]MM Adjustable Rear Swaybar[*]MM Caster/Camber Plates*[*]MM Rear Lower Control Arms without spring perch or swaybar mount[*]Hypercoil Coil-Over Springs[*]MM Rear Coil-Over Conversion Kit[*]Bilstein HD struts & shocks[*]Urethane swaybar bushings[*]Urethane swaybar endlinks
I'm trying to decide if I should just go with their kitor piece together the suspension! Also, I've heard people complain about the Bilstein HD's! They seem to like the Tokico D-Specs better! Any idea why?
Car feels sloppy and dull as I enter turn and through exit transition from turn to straight!
Solution: Panhard bar for better axle location <- David_K, a professional racer on this site uses a watts link, and a panhard is a great starting point
I've read that by installing the springs my ride height will change around 1 1/4" which will change the pinion angle and that I should change out the LCA to an adjustable one so that I can readjust it to correct the pinion angle. Is this correct?
To some degree, I do not see a 1.25" drop affecting pinion angle in the way you say it is. Pinion angle is affected because it is in referece to vehicle height, but keep in mind the front of the car is coming down to so it balances out with the driveshaft angle. Since both sides of the car come down 1.25" then the pinion angle stays relative to the driveshaft angle and you don't get any bind. But a pinion angle closer to 0* will always transfer more power...maybe if you modify the engine and tranny mounts *cough cough*
I'm no suspension expert, and would love to see the article that you got this information from...maybe i'm missing something. Adjustible LCA's can't hurt though right?See Above!
BTW I have a partial sponsorshipfrom Wilwood Engineering(Brakes) that I got since I'm building the car in the post below so I might get a sponsor discount on some 6 piston fronts and 4 piston rears!
Your input and knowledge are greatly appreciated!(I sound like a fortune cookie!)
John
09-21-2007, 02:25 AM
#12
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 688
RE: Road Race build
ORIGINAL: StealthGT2V
nice thread, we need more like this...
nice thread, we need more like this...
ORIGINAL: shaun12
+1
I agree....im more into the road race then drag race my self.
one day my stang will be on the track.
+1
I agree....im more into the road race then drag race my self.
one day my stang will be on the track.
ORIGINAL: golferjoe11
+2, drag racing is boring, but thats my opinion. I'd love to see more mustang owners who want to beat porsche's in turns more than camaro's on the strip
+2, drag racing is boring, but thats my opinion. I'd love to see more mustang owners who want to beat porsche's in turns more than camaro's on the strip
This is my friend Rodgers '03 GT with the MM Max Grip Box kit tearing it up at Buttonwillow Racepark, California! That's me in the car trying not to stain my underwear since I was doing about 120 mph at this point with a diminishing 90* turn coming up.......FAST!!!! LOL!![sm=yikesomg.gif]
Rodger ownsthe Hot Rod shop that is building a car for me! It's a '66 Chevy II Nova! Here is what it looks like so far:
We completely gutted the car, cut the firewall, floorpan and trunk and they made a custom tubular chassis for it! I had them install a Corvette Z06 drivetrain in it!
It should handle VERY nicely on the track!
This is Rodgers '57 Chevy Stepside he's building!
Sorry! I know this is a Ford forum but I had to showoff my project! OK back to 'stangs...............
John
09-21-2007, 03:17 AM
#13
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: Road Race build
If your looking for a dual street/road race setup there just isn't any situation where you should not be looking at adjustable shocks/struts. You can set them up stiff as hell on the course, and then soft on the street. You do NOT want to be riding around with zero weight transfer/body roll on the street.. .trust me.
I have turned my shocks/struts up a few times to the 8 or so range (out of 10) and MAN is it killer on your back when you hit a bump. The car handles like a go cart though.
+1 on weight reduction. Best of both worlds, more acceleration and better handling.
I have turned my shocks/struts up a few times to the 8 or so range (out of 10) and MAN is it killer on your back when you hit a bump. The car handles like a go cart though.
+1 on weight reduction. Best of both worlds, more acceleration and better handling.
09-21-2007, 03:40 AM
#14
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 688
RE: Road Race build
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
If your looking for a dual street/road race setup there just isn't any situation where you should not be looking at adjustable shocks/struts. You can set them up stiff as hell on the course, and then soft on the street. You do NOT want to be riding around with zero weight transfer/body roll on the street.. .trust me.
I have turned my shocks/struts up a few times to the 8 or so range (out of 10) and MAN is it killer on your back when you hit a bump. The car handles like a go cart though.
+1 on weight reduction. Best of both worlds, more acceleration and better handling.
If your looking for a dual street/road race setup there just isn't any situation where you should not be looking at adjustable shocks/struts. You can set them up stiff as hell on the course, and then soft on the street. You do NOT want to be riding around with zero weight transfer/body roll on the street.. .trust me.
I have turned my shocks/struts up a few times to the 8 or so range (out of 10) and MAN is it killer on your back when you hit a bump. The car handles like a go cart though.
+1 on weight reduction. Best of both worlds, more acceleration and better handling.
John
09-21-2007, 05:18 AM
#15
corner carver
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 4,371
RE: Road Race build
Novanutcase - Maximum Motorsports is great stuff. You could probably get a bunch of the pieces cheaper on some of our sponsors sites with discount codes.
2000GT4.6 - You gotta drive around on highest settings all the time haha. I drive with my shocks/struts on the hardest setting possible with highest rate UPR coilovers that they offer. It sucks, but it handles ridiculously better than stock.
2000GT4.6 - You gotta drive around on highest settings all the time haha. I drive with my shocks/struts on the hardest setting possible with highest rate UPR coilovers that they offer. It sucks, but it handles ridiculously better than stock.
09-21-2007, 08:26 AM
#16
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,541
RE: Road Race build
As far as the maximum motorsports kits go, they piece together the kits so that each part works with the other to provide the best grip possible, they choose the parts that would benefit their merchandise the most...so you get the best performance. However, they also engineer this package to fit the widest range of customers and if you want a leading edge, it would be better to build up your own package...IF you know what your trying to do, and how you can go about accomplishing it. As far as your original goals seem to be, the grip box would serve you well, the k-member is one of the strongest and will do well out on the street, and the ride isnt too harsh for street driving. I met multiple people down at Mustang Week that were running plenty of MM parts and only heard one or two complaints. If you unsure, get the grip box, then decide where to modify from there.
That Nova looks badass, I'm sure she'll be a killer, any idea what class you want her to participate in? Or is this just an all out effort?
And as for weight reduction, define unnecessary, i've pulled the spare tire, jack, mach 460, carpet, rear seat, center console, center console bracket, modified the rear seat bracket, sound deadening, a/c, ABS, SRS, wheel blocks, dash plate and a host of other odds and ends on my daily driver. I'm building my rear end now and hope to get it finished here by the end of the year!
That Nova looks badass, I'm sure she'll be a killer, any idea what class you want her to participate in? Or is this just an all out effort?
And as for weight reduction, define unnecessary
, i've pulled the spare tire, jack, mach 460, carpet, rear seat, center console, center console bracket, modified the rear seat bracket, sound deadening, a/c, ABS, SRS, wheel blocks, dash plate and a host of other odds and ends on my daily driver. I'm building my rear end now and hope to get it finished here by the end of the year!
09-21-2007, 12:12 PM
#17
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 688
RE: Road Race build
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
If your looking for a dual street/road race setup there just isn't any situation where you should not be looking at adjustable shocks/struts. You can set them up stiff as hell on the course, and then soft on the street. You do NOT want to be riding around with zero weight transfer/body roll on the street.. .trust me.
I have turned my shocks/struts up a few times to the 8 or so range (out of 10) and MAN is it killer on your back when you hit a bump. The car handles like a go cart though.
+1 on weight reduction. Best of both worlds, more acceleration and better handling.
If your looking for a dual street/road race setup there just isn't any situation where you should not be looking at adjustable shocks/struts. You can set them up stiff as hell on the course, and then soft on the street. You do NOT want to be riding around with zero weight transfer/body roll on the street.. .trust me.
I have turned my shocks/struts up a few times to the 8 or so range (out of 10) and MAN is it killer on your back when you hit a bump. The car handles like a go cart though.
+1 on weight reduction. Best of both worlds, more acceleration and better handling.
ORIGINAL: jmac72187
Novanutcase - Maximum Motorsports is great stuff. You could probably get a bunch of the pieces cheaper on some of our sponsors sites with discount codes.
Novanutcase - Maximum Motorsports is great stuff. You could probably get a bunch of the pieces cheaper on some of our sponsors sites with discount codes.
ORIGINAL: ponysnake99
As far as the maximum motorsports kits go, they piece together the kits so that each part works with the other to provide the best grip possible, they choose the parts that would benefit their merchandise the most...so you get the best performance. However, they also engineer this package to fit the widest range of customers and if you want a leading edge, it would be better to build up your own package...IF you know what your trying to do, and how you can go about accomplishing it. As far as your original goals seem to be, the grip box would serve you well, the k-member is one of the strongest and will do well out on the street, and the ride isnt too harsh for street driving. I met multiple people down at Mustang Week that were running plenty of MM parts and only heard one or two complaints. If you unsure, get the grip box, then decide where to modify from there.
As far as the maximum motorsports kits go, they piece together the kits so that each part works with the other to provide the best grip possible, they choose the parts that would benefit their merchandise the most...so you get the best performance. However, they also engineer this package to fit the widest range of customers and if you want a leading edge, it would be better to build up your own package...IF you know what your trying to do, and how you can go about accomplishing it. As far as your original goals seem to be, the grip box would serve you well, the k-member is one of the strongest and will do well out on the street, and the ride isnt too harsh for street driving. I met multiple people down at Mustang Week that were running plenty of MM parts and only heard one or two complaints. If you unsure, get the grip box, then decide where to modify from there.
ORIGINAL: ponysnake99
That Nova looks badass, I'm sure she'll be a killer, any idea what class you want her to participate in? Or is this just an all out effort?
That Nova looks badass, I'm sure she'll be a killer, any idea what class you want her to participate in? Or is this just an all out effort?
ORIGINAL: ponysnake99
And as for weight reduction, define unnecessary, i've pulled the spare tire, jack, mach 460, carpet, rear seat, center console, center console bracket, modified the rear seat bracket, sound deadening, a/c, ABS, SRS, wheel blocks, dash plate and a host of other odds and ends on my daily driver. I'm building my rear end now and hope to get it finished here by the end of the year!
And as for weight reduction, define unnecessary
, i've pulled the spare tire, jack, mach 460, carpet, rear seat, center console, center console bracket, modified the rear seat bracket, sound deadening, a/c, ABS, SRS, wheel blocks, dash plate and a host of other odds and ends on my daily driver. I'm building my rear end now and hope to get it finished here by the end of the year!
John
09-21-2007, 12:28 PM
#18
5th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,111
RE: Road Race build
Any particular reason your choosing springs over a coil-over setup? Im not saying coil-over is better... because Ive never had experience with them.
Also its cool that you might have a sponsor as big time as Wilwood... they make some badass brakes... If they wont hook you up with a good price on there brakes I would look at Cobra R brakes... they are Brembo 4 pistons that only cost about 1k... lot better then 3k IMO... but thats just me.
You said your freind has the MM grip package... Ive heard people say thats supposed to be a top of the line package... If you got the budget for it I would go that route.
BTW - If you decide with going through Maximum Motorsports I would give them a call... Ive talked to them on the phone and the guy I talked to seemed to know exactly what he was talking about. He might be able to hook you up with a bunch of parts your looking for.
Also its cool that you might have a sponsor as big time as Wilwood... they make some badass brakes... If they wont hook you up with a good price on there brakes I would look at Cobra R brakes... they are Brembo 4 pistons that only cost about 1k... lot better then 3k IMO... but thats just me.
You said your freind has the MM grip package... Ive heard people say thats supposed to be a top of the line package... If you got the budget for it I would go that route.
BTW - If you decide with going through Maximum Motorsports I would give them a call... Ive talked to them on the phone and the guy I talked to seemed to know exactly what he was talking about. He might be able to hook you up with a bunch of parts your looking for.
09-21-2007, 10:37 PM
#19
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 688
RE: Road Race build
ORIGINAL: Rusmisel01GT
Any particular reason your choosing springs over a coil-over setup? Im not saying coil-over is better... because Ive never had experience with them.
Any particular reason your choosing springs over a coil-over setup? Im not saying coil-over is better... because Ive never had experience with them.
ORIGINAL: Rusmisel01GT
Also its cool that you might have a sponsor as big time as Wilwood... they make some badass brakes... If they wont hook you up with a good price on there brakes I would look at Cobra R brakes... they are Brembo 4 pistons that only cost about 1k... lot better then 3k IMO... but thats just me.
Also its cool that you might have a sponsor as big time as Wilwood... they make some badass brakes... If they wont hook you up with a good price on there brakes I would look at Cobra R brakes... they are Brembo 4 pistons that only cost about 1k... lot better then 3k IMO... but thats just me.
ORIGINAL: Rusmisel01GT
You said your freind has the MM grip package... Ive heard people say thats supposed to be a top of the line package... If you got the budget for it I would go that route.
BTW - If you decide with going through Maximum Motorsports I would give them a call... Ive talked to them on the phone and the guy I talked to seemed to know exactly what he was talking about. He might be able to hook you up with a bunch of parts your looking for.
You said your freind has the MM grip package... Ive heard people say thats supposed to be a top of the line package... If you got the budget for it I would go that route.
BTW - If you decide with going through Maximum Motorsports I would give them a call... Ive talked to them on the phone and the guy I talked to seemed to know exactly what he was talking about. He might be able to hook you up with a bunch of parts your looking for.
Thanks for your input!
John
09-22-2007, 06:57 PM
#20
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 688
RE: Road Race build
I'm thinking of going with this kit for a brake upgrade but I can't figure out how many pistons the calipers have. Has anyone used this kit before and do they know how many pistons the calipers use? They're 4 piston right? Will it bolt up to the spindles or do I need to do some sort of modifications? Will I need any other parts that they aren't inlcuding or can I use the parts off of the '03 GT? I think I may tradeup to some slotted rotors and braided lines!
http://www.americanmuscle.com/annive...brake-kit.html
John
http://www.americanmuscle.com/annive...brake-kit.html
John