Question for people racing automatic 'stangs
4th Gear Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,442
From: Nevada
*edit^^^you are right...I have read that...but even Darrin at BC-Automotive said it shouldn't be done....and he is one of the 4r70w transmission GODS. But I will do less of it once I get the tune in to match the gears and the converter I am putting it in. Manually shifting is fun for part throttle situations, the problem is complicated more by WOT shifting it manually because line pressure is real high and things are happening much faster and more friction is being built up and the breakdown happens much quicker. People might ask well why not get a manual car then? Because I bought the auto and that is what I wanted...end of story! The problem like I mention below is the way the clutchs release and grab while doing it manually. There is some overrunning of some clutchs but when in Auto the releasing of them is done differently...or in better terms more safely which in terms reduces heat and is easier on the transmission. There was a good write up somewhere on what each gear does in both modes...so that you see where the problem lies in shifting it manually vs the automatic shift mode.
Gawwd...people act like it's the end of the world to shift the damn transmission manually! It's no worse on the f'ng thing than to leave it in Auto, under WOT conditions. I shift mine all the time and I mean ALL the time but not under WOT conditions, it's mostly at part throttle. Because of my 4.30 gears, the stock tune is f'ng junk. My transmission is still intact and no problems. The underlying problem associated with doing the shifting yourself vs letting the computer do it is the way the clutchs and bands grab and release from one another during the shift. I don't have the info in front of me but I have read that inorder to achieve the shift manually some clutchs are not releasing fully while other ones are grabbing. In essence you have overlap, which creates heat and breaks down the fluid in the transmission faster and then that wears out the stuff in the transmission faster.
30,000 miles is the change interval under normal service duty...but who in there right mind is going to wait that long. Hell I am only putting about 1500-2000 miles a year on my stang, it's not a daily driver...about 200 a month for 9 months out the year. So yeah fluid should be changed at least once a year if your going to be doing a lot of that manually shifting or at least once every 10,000 miles. I am going to be running a 3700 stall, and even w/a huge *** transmission cooler I am still going to be sticking by that rule...I don't care what people say. You can never be safe enough when it comes to these transmissions. Keep the fluid from getting contaminated and don't let it break down...optimal running temperature of transmission fluid when warmed up should be around 170-175 degrees and you won't have too many problems. If you like driving WOT all the time while shifting it manually and not changing the fluid regualry then be prepared for repairs down the road. The stock transmission can hold up to the power it's the lack of maintenance and heat build up that kills em.
Gawwd...people act like it's the end of the world to shift the damn transmission manually! It's no worse on the f'ng thing than to leave it in Auto, under WOT conditions. I shift mine all the time and I mean ALL the time but not under WOT conditions, it's mostly at part throttle. Because of my 4.30 gears, the stock tune is f'ng junk. My transmission is still intact and no problems. The underlying problem associated with doing the shifting yourself vs letting the computer do it is the way the clutchs and bands grab and release from one another during the shift. I don't have the info in front of me but I have read that inorder to achieve the shift manually some clutchs are not releasing fully while other ones are grabbing. In essence you have overlap, which creates heat and breaks down the fluid in the transmission faster and then that wears out the stuff in the transmission faster.
30,000 miles is the change interval under normal service duty...but who in there right mind is going to wait that long. Hell I am only putting about 1500-2000 miles a year on my stang, it's not a daily driver...about 200 a month for 9 months out the year. So yeah fluid should be changed at least once a year if your going to be doing a lot of that manually shifting or at least once every 10,000 miles. I am going to be running a 3700 stall, and even w/a huge *** transmission cooler I am still going to be sticking by that rule...I don't care what people say. You can never be safe enough when it comes to these transmissions. Keep the fluid from getting contaminated and don't let it break down...optimal running temperature of transmission fluid when warmed up should be around 170-175 degrees and you won't have too many problems. If you like driving WOT all the time while shifting it manually and not changing the fluid regualry then be prepared for repairs down the road. The stock transmission can hold up to the power it's the lack of maintenance and heat build up that kills em.
I cant throw enough +1's at this. I shift my car from 1-2-D, D-2-1 on a regular basis whenever I drive my car. Reason being is that when my dyno tune was done, we left the SCT shift pattern on my car without adjusting it, and it is way too aggressive for normal everyday driving. However, my car is not a daily anymore either. Like stated above though, I have not had any problems with my trans at all and I've been doing this for about 6 months now. As long as proper maintenance is done on it (changing fluids etc) then it will be fine. These auto trans arent as much junk as some people think..
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 451
From: NJ
I manually shift mine all the time and never had a problem, and yes heat is the enemy...props on the external trans cooler...I do a 2-1 downshift and mash the pedal after coming out of a turn...talk about getting sideways, I LOVE it...lol...
4th Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,956
From: NC
Bump. Really good thread IMO, needs more expert advice added into it.
I'm curious....because I was just doing this yesterday. When you launch from 1-2-D at 4,000 to 5,000 RPMs.....as you shift into D is it engaging the third or will it skip straight to 4th and OD? It seemed yesterday to me like it was going too fast to go third, then fourth. Certainly didnt feel like it did all that shifting anyways.
More info on how safe this is IMO!
I'm curious....because I was just doing this yesterday. When you launch from 1-2-D at 4,000 to 5,000 RPMs.....as you shift into D is it engaging the third or will it skip straight to 4th and OD? It seemed yesterday to me like it was going too fast to go third, then fourth. Certainly didnt feel like it did all that shifting anyways.
More info on how safe this is IMO!
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 410
From:
the trans will never shift into OD @ wot,
i do 6200 rpm 1-2 shifts and have had no problems since my swap,
i however do not down shift from 2nd to 1st due to it chirps my wheels, i usually stop then down shift
and once again if it breaks just fix it better
i do 6200 rpm 1-2 shifts and have had no problems since my swap,
i however do not down shift from 2nd to 1st due to it chirps my wheels, i usually stop then down shift
and once again if it breaks just fix it better
6th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,010
From: Las Vegas
Hey sup everybody.
I thought the answer to this was obvious, but I'm not so sure any more. When you race an automatic, are you shifting through 1st and 2nd gear and then putting it on D.. or are you just leaving it on D and stepping on it??
Both produce really good results, and I can get a chirp on third if I do it the "half-manual" way, but I don't know if that's harming the transmission/engine. Next week I'll be putting in the shift-kit, and maybe a month or two after that I'll be adding a B&M shifter. I've already put 4.10s in the car.
Show me the way guys..
Thanks,
Rob
I thought the answer to this was obvious, but I'm not so sure any more. When you race an automatic, are you shifting through 1st and 2nd gear and then putting it on D.. or are you just leaving it on D and stepping on it??
Both produce really good results, and I can get a chirp on third if I do it the "half-manual" way, but I don't know if that's harming the transmission/engine. Next week I'll be putting in the shift-kit, and maybe a month or two after that I'll be adding a B&M shifter. I've already put 4.10s in the car.
Show me the way guys..
Thanks,
Rob
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 262
From: Peoria, IL.
Anyway this is how it goes down guys...there has been good and bad results from manually shifting a FORD AOD/4r70w. I have experienced both sides of this. There are one to many variables to consider when one's transmission takes a chit on ya. The most important of them being the fluid...whether or not it has been changed often enough to avoid the breakdown of the fluid. Also when shifting manually it is going to make a difference whether you are doing it mostly at WOT or part throttle instances. I am not a total expert on these transmissions but I have read hundreds of articles over the 15 years, of knowing about these transmissions, so I consider myself well informed! I had one of those non electronic AOD's and shifted it all the time manually and it went out on me at 80000 miles. I got the car when it had 57000 miles. So who knows how much it was abused and if the fluid had been changed from the time it was sold to me? I never changed it either till I had it rebuilt to racing standards(clutch upgrades...wide ratio kit put into it). It's the abuse guys...abuse that leads to failure eventually. That is why you can't explain someone's engine going out 50000 miles vs one that lasts 200,000. But I can tell you maintenance had a big role to play in it...if not the total reason why it took a chit.