Ecstasy

yea well i never did it, i just know friends that have, ive not seen any aod's really go down bad, but ive seen the newer ones quite a bit. if you want to race your car, get a standard and dont try to make an auto a stick because its not, thats my opinion.

03FstStngKB

Well, mine went down real bad...the 91 AOD of course...it got so bad that it wouldn't shift anymore in any gear...it was kind of cool at first though because it acted like it had a higher stall in it...but it gradually got so bad that it was like trying to drive a 5000 Stall non lockup converter on the street...it wasn't happening. But again I can't really say that it was the manual shifting that tore it up...most likely contributed but w/100% certainty the answer can't be obtained?



*Edit*...sorry for going off topic...but I thought I would give you another side of what these transmissions really benefit from and thought some people might be interested in reading about it!

*Warning Long Story/Discussion on Converters*

*NOTICE WHAT I AM ABOUT TO SAY*>>>>A manual W/COMPARABLE engine mods is not going to keep up off the line w/a built and stalled auto thru the 1st shift into the 2nd Shift? A good example would be to look at my current to future set-up. A 3700 stall....a custom built valvebody based off the j-mod, custom tune...and 4.30 gears. My set-up is pretty radical but even 4.10 gears and a 3000+ auto will still take a manual down off the line with some kind of mod to the stock shifting and a good tune is a must to be able to do this. You're going to need some good rubber too so be thinking about some drag radials if you plan on having a chance of get'n em off the line to take any considerable lead.

Keeping what I just said in mind, once you do that to an auto, manuals still aren't that far behind because they can be rev'd just as high as any stalled auto. So that brings me to where most people have no idea why built and stalled autos create an advantage over manuals? First of all the idea behind the computer shifting the transmission quickly and flawlessly(w/a shift kit or j-mod)is a start but here is where things get more interesting. Manuals lose/absorb some power coming off the flywheel...while the auto does too at a greater rate but after the power has transfered thru the higher stall torque converter it once again increases due to the "Torque Multiplication Effect" and negates any disadvantage the auto gets compared to the manual. Actually it can benefit the auto to a degree where it is transfering more power to the wheels than a manual, when an auto runs w/a more radical stall(3500+). It's just the extra edge the converter creates in an auto that the manual can't give(perform) which is why a stalled auto(especially on DR's) is going to excel over the manual for the 1st 60-100 feet or so and that is enough to stay ahead of the race until 2nd to 3rd gear where the torque converter is not really helping as much as it did off the line. As much as some of you manual guys feel you have the fine art of shifting down...it ain't happening...unless...you're powershifting, better be a 'good race' though if it's worth the beating on the transmission with that style of shifting.

I have seen many a videos and been in high stall equipped stangs and they will leave you manual guys looking dumb founded. Not trying to be cocky...just my personal opinion. Also the driver has a big part to play in it too. So for you auto guys just don't think you can walk into a high stall equipped auto mustang and assume you are the ****! It takes practice to control the increased stall speed...as it will feel like you have more power on-tap...which you actually do. The stall will put you instantly near your power band...the higher stall ones will anyway(3500+). So you can expect the manual guy to excel if he's a good shifter, while your inexperience in controling the high stall converter leaves you frying the tires.

It takes practice racing period...that's the other half of the competition right there, the car is only half the story...the driver needs to be equally skilled and or matched to the performance level of the car...period!

So with with all that said until you(manual guys) have been in one(built and stalled auto) or raced one...don't talk chit about em! And Ecstasy I am not talking about you...just a general statement to whoever reads this.

I don't dislike manuals...lol...might seem like it...just think that autos have more (racing)potential. Also to the "get a manual if you like shifting it comment", If I want to shift my automatic anytime I please I should be able to do it without feeling like I need a manual or being persuaded to get a manual...it has not been totally proven to destroy the transmission more so then racing it all the time while leaving it in drive/auto.

I have been manually shifting mine now for 10,000 miles on my stang...no problems yet? Once I get my tune in next year along with my converter...it won't matter much anymore to me anyway...I wont be shifting as much at part throttle and hardly any shifting at WOT...which is where impo I believe most of the damage is being done at or MSAWOT is what I like to call it. Also the tune will allow for better part throttle shift management and the locking and unlocking of the converter schedule are key things that the tune is needed for.

Alias3800

Thanks for all the info guys, really damn helpful. Oh and yeah, I see what you're saying OQStang, I'm getting a shift kit within the week installed and the next thing I plan to get is the stall. The tune I have now is just a handheld flash from diablosport for 93. Gets the job done.. but after I get the shift kit and the stall put in I'll be getting a custom tune done, so that is yanks the goddamn life out of me on that second and third gear.

One thing I do have to say though is that I love this auto mustang, wouldn't trade it for anything... (other than a terminator). Runs awesome with what it's got now, I was just asking to know what would produce better results. I'll keep it on D though for the most part, especially WOT.

Hey OQStang, a 3500+ stall runs for a little over a grand right?

isjoining

make sure you get a transmission cooler before or while doing the shift kit install.

03FstStngKB

You can get one for around $750 or so. That is how much I payed for mine. Prices will vary depending on the builder charging to build it and materials used to build it. You can go with a mass produced one(cheaper) that you can find at places that sell them on transmission websites but as with mass produced parts, you may or may not get a good quality piece, and another thing you won't get is a converter built to spec match your current or future engine mods which is very important for the converter to perform well in your environment. All in all though you can expect to pay at least $600 and up for a one that will last worth a damn. While you may find one for a pretty good deal, more than not you won't find a cheap(er) one that will last as long as you want it to, so keep that in mind?

SilvrStang

3500 is overkill for a daily driver. Itll drive like **** on the street. 2800-3000 is mroe then enough for a daily driven slightly modded car. You gota match your power to the converter and 2800-3000 is good for anything you throw at it.

03FstStngKB

^^^3500 is not overkill. Your converter will lock up so there will be no huge slippage. Converters normally slip but just a few percent.

The ideal torque converter needs to be 250-500 rpms lower than your peak torque for max efficiency. On a stock engine...peak torque arrives around 4000 rpms...you do the math? Anything less than 3000 and you just bought yourself an expensive piece of "junk"...cause stock stalls are around 2500 rpms to begin with...you will not notice much difference unless your going over 3000.

SilvrStang

If you say so dude. You sound like you built tranny your whole lifetime lol. I talked to buddy of mine who builds trannys for a living and a 2800-3000 is more then enough. 2500 for stock you must be on crack dude

03FstStngKB

No, I don't build transmissions but I know more about them then the average person who owns them. 3700 may not suit a daily driver the best, but it is not overkill in general if you're looking to maximize what a converter will do for this engine. I can't remember if the OP said he was using this car as a daily driver but the stall you mentioned Silvr is the bare min I would go with IMPO. Go with whatever you want(OP)...it's your car not mine. And no I am not on crack either...from the factory it was rated with a low spec of 2324 and a high spec of 2737. That is straight from the literature that was put out by Ford. Not trying to be a dick but I don't post rubbish numbers! I don't claim to know everything...so take it for whatever it is?

You can see what your stall is approx by going on a slight to medium incline and putting into 2nd gear and nailing the throttle, this method will tell you approx what your flash stall is. The same method can be done in 1st gear, but is harder to watch the actual flash stall rpm on the tach. 2nd gear creates more engine loading thus reducing/extending (depending on how you look at it) the reaction time that your car takes off from an instant and the longer your rpms will flash to give you your stall speed. Brake stall is a different method of rating a converter and is pretty self-explanatory on how to achieve it. I myself couldn't get the brake stall to go over 1800...and that will sometimes be dependent on how hard you hold the brakes or how well your braking system can hold. Street surface and or tire quality will affect the brake stall method too. The only way to get the "true stall" rating is on the transbrake...as you can lock the transmission up to get the true stall speed of the converter.

I have talked to someone that does build transmissions for a living and his name is Darrin from BC-Automotive and the guy knows a lot about this transmission, so if you DO want to know what the best stall would be for your application give him a call or go to his website.

35thAnni99GT

QwkStang is giving some good info. Just wanted to add on top of it people if you don't understand what a torque converter does, please don't give advice on it. A 2500 stall doesn't mean when you're driving around you have to rev it to 2500 just to get the car to move (maybe if you go with a ****ty brand like TCI). Also different stalls have different torque ratios. A YANK converter will have a different ratio than say... a Circle D converter.

A trans will NEVER shift into O/D @ WOT?! Good grief, tell that to all the people with snapped rods in their Lightnings.