Thermostat housing leaking coolant.
12-22-2008, 08:07 PM
#11
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 13
I had the same problem. Got a 99 GT engine in an 04 body. The 99 intake manifold was all plastic, including the coolant bridge. My bridge cracked over on the pass. side, where the coolant sensor screws in. The repair isn't bad, but be painfully sure to check at the store (Autozone or whatever) that ALL parts come with the manifold. They tried to give me one, and it didn't have the gasket, or any of the other little parts that go with...there should be a sheet in the box that lists all the parts; make sure that each one is in the box.
The new manifold will probably have a metal coolant bridge (Ford, learning from mistakes the lawsuit way). This is alright, but one thing to remember (that I learned the hard way) is that the new thermostat-manifold interface is now metal-metal. Make sure the O-ring is the correct size, and a nice bead of hi-temp RTV sealant all the way around the interface is a great idea. I failed to do that the first time (the o-ring that came with the manifold was crap, btw), and it spewed all of my coolant all over the engine, flooding the spark plugs for cylinders 6 and 7. So be sensitive to that.
Some differences between your old manifold and the new one that you will encounter:
-With the new manifold, should be two extra alternator brackets. The more convoluted-looking one should fit. Just a minor difference from the older to newer setup. You'll probably have to pull the alternator to get the manifold out, so when replacing, pay attention to the bracket, the old one won't fit the new manifold.
-There will be an extra hole in the coolant bridge on the new manifold. This is similar to the coolant sensor hole on the pass. side, but this new one is on the driver's side, near the thermostat. If you were diligent in checking for all the little parts, you will have a plug that screws into that hole. Wrap the threads with some Teflon tape first, and screw it in. Also re-tape the threads for the sensor.
Clean off the manifold-block interface too, while you've got it off. Just scrape off the gunk, but fill or tape the holes first so you don't knock that gunk into somewhere it shouldn't be! Replace any old gaskets with new ones.
This was the first car-project I've ever done (other than changing a flat), and it took me about 5 hours, working slowly. The thermostat screw up, and fixing the two cylinder misfires took more time, but if you heed the warnings, you should be fine.
The new manifold will probably have a metal coolant bridge (Ford, learning from mistakes the lawsuit way). This is alright, but one thing to remember (that I learned the hard way) is that the new thermostat-manifold interface is now metal-metal. Make sure the O-ring is the correct size, and a nice bead of hi-temp RTV sealant all the way around the interface is a great idea. I failed to do that the first time (the o-ring that came with the manifold was crap, btw), and it spewed all of my coolant all over the engine, flooding the spark plugs for cylinders 6 and 7. So be sensitive to that.
Some differences between your old manifold and the new one that you will encounter:
-With the new manifold, should be two extra alternator brackets. The more convoluted-looking one should fit. Just a minor difference from the older to newer setup. You'll probably have to pull the alternator to get the manifold out, so when replacing, pay attention to the bracket, the old one won't fit the new manifold.
-There will be an extra hole in the coolant bridge on the new manifold. This is similar to the coolant sensor hole on the pass. side, but this new one is on the driver's side, near the thermostat. If you were diligent in checking for all the little parts, you will have a plug that screws into that hole. Wrap the threads with some Teflon tape first, and screw it in. Also re-tape the threads for the sensor.
Clean off the manifold-block interface too, while you've got it off. Just scrape off the gunk, but fill or tape the holes first so you don't knock that gunk into somewhere it shouldn't be! Replace any old gaskets with new ones.
This was the first car-project I've ever done (other than changing a flat), and it took me about 5 hours, working slowly. The thermostat screw up, and fixing the two cylinder misfires took more time, but if you heed the warnings, you should be fine.
12-23-2008, 04:22 AM
#12
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: California
Posts: 47
I already put in the new intake. It didn't come with any additional parts other than the intake...
The problem is, now the smoke is rising from under the new intake. I'm guessing it's the gaskets i reused but I'm not sure. I sealed them in there pretty well. I guess I'll just switch in new ones.
I had to fabricate an alternator bracket out of a simpson strongtie (3/8" sheet steel) It was quite an adventure, lol.
Right now though, aside from the smoke, I'm noticing that the engine has a sort of "lunging" rhythm at idle and stops. It's kinda like a regular idle but at odd intervals the car feels like it's trying to break loose from the breaks and "lunge" forward a bit. I'm thinking it's the sensor, but I haven't found the plug or the hole. I'll put up some pictures tomorrow if I can. I have no access to a garage and it's raining like the 10 plagues here...
The problem is, now the smoke is rising from under the new intake. I'm guessing it's the gaskets i reused but I'm not sure. I sealed them in there pretty well. I guess I'll just switch in new ones.
I had to fabricate an alternator bracket out of a simpson strongtie (3/8" sheet steel) It was quite an adventure, lol.
Right now though, aside from the smoke, I'm noticing that the engine has a sort of "lunging" rhythm at idle and stops. It's kinda like a regular idle but at odd intervals the car feels like it's trying to break loose from the breaks and "lunge" forward a bit. I'm thinking it's the sensor, but I haven't found the plug or the hole. I'll put up some pictures tomorrow if I can. I have no access to a garage and it's raining like the 10 plagues here...
12-23-2008, 10:34 AM
#13
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 13
First, there probably should have been parts with it. Or if you got it from a discount place, you should be sure to get the other stuff...the main gasket, the plug, a new thermostat/o-ring, (not necessary, but you might as well while you're in there), the little o-rings for the fuel injectors, etc. Never re-use a gasket - new components need new gaskets/o-rings, since those are the likeliest fail-points.
Good job on making the bracket, I'm impressed. Just make sure there are no sharp edges that will rub up on the radiator hose, it runs fairly close.
As to the problems you have:
The smoke rising from under the manifold obviously means you've got coolant sneaking out somewhere. This could be that bad gasket, or somewhere else. One of the new gaskets for the new manifold will probably fix this - sometimes the holes don't line up perfectly between old and new designs, and the new gasket takes care of this. Also make sure you torqued the manifold bolts correctly...can't remember, but I believe the manifold bolts are 15ft-lbs, and there's something else, maybe alternator bracket, that's 18ft-lbs. Look those numbers up. Before you pull everything apart tho, clean up what you can, and run the engine...with everything dry, you should see something start to get wet when the engine reaches temperature and starts running the coolant. Takes about 3-5 min of idle. The coolant can pool down in the bottom of the "V" of the block, and when it heats up, steam will come from there...doesn't necessarily mean that that is where the leak is. Be vigilant.
As for the lurching....when I did my replacement, my thermostat was the leak-point. Spewed coolant all over the damn place. The coolant managed to leak past the ignition coils on 6&7, and filled up that little tunnel space leading down to the spark plugs, unbeknownst to me. I fixed the leak, and started driving around. No more steam, but it felt like a 10-year old had taken my accelerator hostage. I'm guessing you drive an automatic, based on the "break loose" comment. I've got a manual, so I only felt it on low-RPM acceleration...from 1000 to about 1800, it was jumpy jumpy, and the longer I drove like that, the worse it got...the engine started getting anemic, and then the SES light popped on me. I pulled the code, and got P0306 (Cylinder 6 misfire). The misfire was caused by coolant flooding out that spark plug. Pep boys was kind enough to replace the plug and coil all for only $160. F***. The next day, my SES popped again, same troubles, lurching around on me during low acceleration. Pulled the code, P0307....cyl7... Decided I wasn't gonna get raped again by the mechanics, and pulled the coil myself. Looked down at the spark plug to see a nice pool of coolant. Dried it out, replaced the spark plug for good measure ($2), and put the old coil back in. The coils go for about $50, so I was hoping I could return the one I bought. Cleared the error code from the computer, drove around, and it's back to 100%.
Moral of the story: lurching after this kind of repair is likely a cylinder misfire b/c of coolant getting all over the place...if you pop an SES light, I'd bet that's the code you get...for whichever cylinder(s). It's a cheap fix tho, don't get suckered like I did.
Good job on making the bracket, I'm impressed. Just make sure there are no sharp edges that will rub up on the radiator hose, it runs fairly close.
As to the problems you have:
The smoke rising from under the manifold obviously means you've got coolant sneaking out somewhere. This could be that bad gasket, or somewhere else. One of the new gaskets for the new manifold will probably fix this - sometimes the holes don't line up perfectly between old and new designs, and the new gasket takes care of this. Also make sure you torqued the manifold bolts correctly...can't remember, but I believe the manifold bolts are 15ft-lbs, and there's something else, maybe alternator bracket, that's 18ft-lbs. Look those numbers up. Before you pull everything apart tho, clean up what you can, and run the engine...with everything dry, you should see something start to get wet when the engine reaches temperature and starts running the coolant. Takes about 3-5 min of idle. The coolant can pool down in the bottom of the "V" of the block, and when it heats up, steam will come from there...doesn't necessarily mean that that is where the leak is. Be vigilant.
As for the lurching....when I did my replacement, my thermostat was the leak-point. Spewed coolant all over the damn place. The coolant managed to leak past the ignition coils on 6&7, and filled up that little tunnel space leading down to the spark plugs, unbeknownst to me. I fixed the leak, and started driving around. No more steam, but it felt like a 10-year old had taken my accelerator hostage. I'm guessing you drive an automatic, based on the "break loose" comment. I've got a manual, so I only felt it on low-RPM acceleration...from 1000 to about 1800, it was jumpy jumpy, and the longer I drove like that, the worse it got...the engine started getting anemic, and then the SES light popped on me. I pulled the code, and got P0306 (Cylinder 6 misfire). The misfire was caused by coolant flooding out that spark plug. Pep boys was kind enough to replace the plug and coil all for only $160. F***. The next day, my SES popped again, same troubles, lurching around on me during low acceleration. Pulled the code, P0307....cyl7... Decided I wasn't gonna get raped again by the mechanics, and pulled the coil myself. Looked down at the spark plug to see a nice pool of coolant. Dried it out, replaced the spark plug for good measure ($2), and put the old coil back in. The coils go for about $50, so I was hoping I could return the one I bought. Cleared the error code from the computer, drove around, and it's back to 100%.
Moral of the story: lurching after this kind of repair is likely a cylinder misfire b/c of coolant getting all over the place...if you pop an SES light, I'd bet that's the code you get...for whichever cylinder(s). It's a cheap fix tho, don't get suckered like I did.
12-24-2008, 04:32 PM
#14
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: California
Posts: 47
Right now, however, my car is refusing to start. I know for a fact that I've got coolant in at least one of the spark plugs. I think I'll replace them. As of this moment, though, I have the battery disconnected to try and reset the computer. The car was driving last night, but this morning, I got up to tighten two of the bolts I couldn't reach and after getting that done, I got into the car to start it for a test drive, but it wouldn't start. I get the starter cranking but there's no ignition. Pretty sure it's the spark plug.
12-25-2008, 04:26 AM
#16
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: California
Posts: 47
Quick question. I know my car still leaks coolant. I've only driven it a grand total of 6 miles with the new gaskets. I'm thinking the problem maybe in the fact that I did not let the sealant set for long. Actually, I didn't let it set at all, 30 minutes isn't much time.
I know I was dumb, but I got a work call, and God knows that a college student with a bum car is in dire need of money.
Right now, I've already let the sealant set for a good 24 hours. Do you think that the sealant would have sealed the gaps left in it from the coolant spewing out all by itself or do you think I'll probably have to remove the intake and put it together again a third time, this time, cleaning all the sealant off, applying a cleaner seal, and letting it set for the recommended amount of time?
I know I've made a lot of dumb mistakes, but I'm still pretty green and outside of woodworking, I've got less than no experience with this sort of stuff.
I know I was dumb, but I got a work call, and God knows that a college student with a bum car is in dire need of money.
Right now, I've already let the sealant set for a good 24 hours. Do you think that the sealant would have sealed the gaps left in it from the coolant spewing out all by itself or do you think I'll probably have to remove the intake and put it together again a third time, this time, cleaning all the sealant off, applying a cleaner seal, and letting it set for the recommended amount of time?
I know I've made a lot of dumb mistakes, but I'm still pretty green and outside of woodworking, I've got less than no experience with this sort of stuff.
12-25-2008, 11:32 PM
#17
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 13
Before you go yanking things apart again, diagnose the problem. Let the car run until it gets up to temperature, and the coolant starts moving....figure out where it's coming out! The engine should be dry by now, so you should initially see no steam...then when it starts coming, figure out where the wet is happening, then go from there.
If you identify the actual leak as coming from the manifold-block interface, then yes, throw that new gasket in. If you pull it, clean everything (old sealant job, etc), and start with clean interfaces...no point leaving old stuff that did or didn't work. Put the new gasket on, a good application of sealant if the gasket isn't enough (it really should be though...the engine wouldn't be designed to have a gasket that didn't do its job). It officially takes however long the tube says it takes for the sealant to set, but after an hour, it should hold up for your purposes of checking leaks.
The hope, however, is that you see a leak from some hose somewhere, tighten the clamp, and go merrily on your way with only 5 minutes of work instead of a complete redo. Let it get up to temp, and watch it very closely. Get a buddy to help you. Follow everywhere that the coolant runs in the engine, and find out where all dry suddenly becomes dry and not dry. Should be pretty clear, especially since the coolant system runs at about 16psi.
If you identify the actual leak as coming from the manifold-block interface, then yes, throw that new gasket in. If you pull it, clean everything (old sealant job, etc), and start with clean interfaces...no point leaving old stuff that did or didn't work. Put the new gasket on, a good application of sealant if the gasket isn't enough (it really should be though...the engine wouldn't be designed to have a gasket that didn't do its job). It officially takes however long the tube says it takes for the sealant to set, but after an hour, it should hold up for your purposes of checking leaks.
The hope, however, is that you see a leak from some hose somewhere, tighten the clamp, and go merrily on your way with only 5 minutes of work instead of a complete redo. Let it get up to temp, and watch it very closely. Get a buddy to help you. Follow everywhere that the coolant runs in the engine, and find out where all dry suddenly becomes dry and not dry. Should be pretty clear, especially since the coolant system runs at about 16psi.
12-27-2008, 01:44 AM
#18
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: California
Posts: 47
Well, I've checked the engine running dry, both before and after a 5 mile drive. I can't spot any area's where I might be leaking, but somehow the drive there (to my local Wal-mart) and back (which now adds up to 10 miles), I lost 2/3 of my reservoir tank of coolant. I didn't notice any steaming/leaking nor did I hear any hissing. I smelled coolant but I think that is due to the fact that I still have about a pint and a half of it pooled in the V of by block from the plastic manifold leak. When I checked and found the resulting difference, it had since been three and a half hours after the drive back home. My guess is that because I had previously topped off the coolant with water, some of the water evaporated or "flashed" out. Also, there probably was still coolant in my engine.
Also, things that are kinda annoying me is that I'm still getting my SES light on, and my car acts like a dog on a leash at times. I'm gonna check the codes, again, at the auto store and I'll probably reset the battery, although my car's had a history of problems with the computer reflashing the battery.
And also, I know it's a bit late, but Happy Holidays!
Also, things that are kinda annoying me is that I'm still getting my SES light on, and my car acts like a dog on a leash at times. I'm gonna check the codes, again, at the auto store and I'll probably reset the battery, although my car's had a history of problems with the computer reflashing the battery.
And also, I know it's a bit late, but Happy Holidays!
12-27-2008, 07:35 PM
#19
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 13
Make sure when you fill up the coolant, you check the system after it gets up to temperature (and pulls the coolant in the reservoir into the rest of the system). Use a rag to clean that other stuff out of the V. Also, use 50/50 coolant to fill up...helps you see it coming out better, and it's not expensive.
Check the codes...with mine, first cyl6 misfired...then a couple days later, it was cyl7. So it may take a little while to work the kinks out. Just be methodical and fix one thing completely before moving on to another fix.
Check the codes...with mine, first cyl6 misfired...then a couple days later, it was cyl7. So it may take a little while to work the kinks out. Just be methodical and fix one thing completely before moving on to another fix.
12-28-2008, 02:10 AM
#20
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: California
Posts: 47
I'm getting the codes checked tomorrow, I know I said I'd get it checked today but I was busy...
However, for the first time since the intake swap, I pushed the engine to 60MPH. It wasn't at break-neck acceleration with the pedal to the floor, but I got on the freeway, for any familiar, I got on 680 north in Fremont to take a scenic drive up to the sunol exit and down into Niles canyon. Halfway to the exit, my SES light starts to flash. *******. That's when I took the first exit I saw, looped back on the freeway and headed home. Now, I'm not losing any coolant. At least not visibly. I hear a hissing coming out the botom of my radiator, but the drain plug is on tight. I checked hoses. It's quite frustrating.
Now I'm getting a bit of a hissing noise coming out whenver I shift the boots of the two front-most spark plugs on the driver's-side bank. However, I see no way coolant could have gotten into the spark plug without running across the engine block. Is it possible that my gasket is somehow letting coolant run into the cylinders?
On a sidenote, I need caster camber plates and new tires. My front passenger tire is bald and slipping while the driver's side has at least 20% tread left.
However, for the first time since the intake swap, I pushed the engine to 60MPH. It wasn't at break-neck acceleration with the pedal to the floor, but I got on the freeway, for any familiar, I got on 680 north in Fremont to take a scenic drive up to the sunol exit and down into Niles canyon. Halfway to the exit, my SES light starts to flash. *******. That's when I took the first exit I saw, looped back on the freeway and headed home. Now, I'm not losing any coolant. At least not visibly. I hear a hissing coming out the botom of my radiator, but the drain plug is on tight. I checked hoses. It's quite frustrating.
Now I'm getting a bit of a hissing noise coming out whenver I shift the boots of the two front-most spark plugs on the driver's-side bank. However, I see no way coolant could have gotten into the spark plug without running across the engine block. Is it possible that my gasket is somehow letting coolant run into the cylinders?
On a sidenote, I need caster camber plates and new tires. My front passenger tire is bald and slipping while the driver's side has at least 20% tread left.