Built Bottom end??? 3650 tranny??
05-28-2010, 08:11 AM
#1
6th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MO/ Born and raised in Louisiana
Posts: 10,696
Built Bottom end??? 3650 tranny??
Okay guys I just purcharsed a V 1 and once I redeploy from this hell hole, I will be slapping it on.. I'm really hoping that this will get me close to my goal of a 400 RWHP Stang. Anyways I'm starting to look pass 400 and am not looking at 500 RWHP. I have read many a thread and have learned that the 2V (safely) can hold about 425-450 RWHP without the bottom end giving out.. By next summer I want to take off the shorties and go with LT's and by the end of next year I will be purchasing the Trick Flow heads. I'm thinking with a smaller pulley and a good tune that should get me real close to 500 right? I need to know what parts would I need to beef up my bottom end, cost of the parts,what would be a fair price for labor and how much hp can a stock 3650 tranny hold? Also will making your bottom end stronger yield any kind of HP gain? Thanks guys and as always any help would be appreciated..
Last edited by Soldier GT; 05-28-2010 at 08:13 AM.
05-28-2010, 09:40 AM
#2
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Posts: 3,189
425-450rwhp is not safe IMO, just FYI. it's been deemed that you can run that way for a period of time, some people are good for a month, some a year. 450rwhp on the stock block your motor may not last long enuff to finish your tuning so if you run that high, you better be able to replace the motor if you blow it.
you need at minimum rods and pistons. the GT crank alot of people say is good for about 650hp or whatever but it would be smarter to get a cobra crank since its balanced to spin to 7k. your cheapest bet is just buy an already built MMR block (like 2400$ or so for an entire bottom end and you can sell your motor to offset cost assuming its not blown).
depends how you beef your bottom end. boost doesnt like compression. if your going to be running high boost you will want to get dished pistons. this usually drops a few HP tho but it is by far made up with the additional boost. if you were building an NA car you would get flat top pistons to keep compression high and this adds HP but not ideal for boost.
you need at minimum rods and pistons. the GT crank alot of people say is good for about 650hp or whatever but it would be smarter to get a cobra crank since its balanced to spin to 7k. your cheapest bet is just buy an already built MMR block (like 2400$ or so for an entire bottom end and you can sell your motor to offset cost assuming its not blown).
depends how you beef your bottom end. boost doesnt like compression. if your going to be running high boost you will want to get dished pistons. this usually drops a few HP tho but it is by far made up with the additional boost. if you were building an NA car you would get flat top pistons to keep compression high and this adds HP but not ideal for boost.
05-28-2010, 10:20 AM
#3
6th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MO/ Born and raised in Louisiana
Posts: 10,696
425-450rwhp is not safe IMO, just FYI. it's been deemed that you can run that way for a period of time, some people are good for a month, some a year. 450rwhp on the stock block your motor may not last long enuff to finish your tuning so if you run that high, you better be able to replace the motor if you blow it.
you need at minimum rods and pistons. the GT crank alot of people say is good for about 650hp or whatever but it would be smarter to get a cobra crank since its balanced to spin to 7k. your cheapest bet is just buy an already built MMR block (like 2400$ or so for an entire bottom end and you can sell your motor to offset cost assuming its not blown).
depends how you beef your bottom end. boost doesnt like compression. if your going to be running high boost you will want to get dished pistons. this usually drops a few HP tho but it is by far made up with the additional boost. if you were building an NA car you would get flat top pistons to keep compression high and this adds HP but not ideal for boost.
you need at minimum rods and pistons. the GT crank alot of people say is good for about 650hp or whatever but it would be smarter to get a cobra crank since its balanced to spin to 7k. your cheapest bet is just buy an already built MMR block (like 2400$ or so for an entire bottom end and you can sell your motor to offset cost assuming its not blown).
depends how you beef your bottom end. boost doesnt like compression. if your going to be running high boost you will want to get dished pistons. this usually drops a few HP tho but it is by far made up with the additional boost. if you were building an NA car you would get flat top pistons to keep compression high and this adds HP but not ideal for boost.
Hey thanks for the info dude.. This part of the engine I have no clue about. Does anyone sell a kit for the New Edge Bottom ends? When I say kit something that you can buy in a bundle that will have everything you need to beef up the bottom end.. Thanks again
05-28-2010, 10:40 AM
#4
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
Re: the 3650, it is rated for 360lbft maximum input torque (power transmission products are rated by torque, not horsepower), however many feel this is a conservative rating and think 400lbft is a more reasonable working limit.
At 2500 engine rpm this is 190HP, at 4500 rpm 342HP, at 5252 rpm 400HP, and at 6500 rpm 495HP.
Keep in mind too that it's the 1st gear ratio, and the generated side thrust between the main and counter shafts, that contributes most to the torque rating limit. In the higher gears the side thrust drops off and the tranny can handle more torque.
At 2500 engine rpm this is 190HP, at 4500 rpm 342HP, at 5252 rpm 400HP, and at 6500 rpm 495HP.
Keep in mind too that it's the 1st gear ratio, and the generated side thrust between the main and counter shafts, that contributes most to the torque rating limit. In the higher gears the side thrust drops off and the tranny can handle more torque.
05-28-2010, 10:54 AM
#6
6th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MO/ Born and raised in Louisiana
Posts: 10,696
Re: the 3650, it is rated for 360lbft maximum input torque (power transmission products are rated by torque, not horsepower), however many feel this is a conservative rating and think 400lbft is a more reasonable working limit.
At 2500 engine rpm this is 190HP, at 4500 rpm 342HP, at 5252 rpm 400HP, and at 6500 rpm 495HP.
Keep in mind too that it's the 1st gear ratio, and the generated side thrust between the main and counter shafts, that contributes most to the torque rating limit. In the higher gears the side thrust drops off and the tranny can handle more torque.
At 2500 engine rpm this is 190HP, at 4500 rpm 342HP, at 5252 rpm 400HP, and at 6500 rpm 495HP.
Keep in mind too that it's the 1st gear ratio, and the generated side thrust between the main and counter shafts, that contributes most to the torque rating limit. In the higher gears the side thrust drops off and the tranny can handle more torque.
Hey thanks for the info man. It really made alot of sense.. Gonna have alot of work ahead of me in the next 18 months. My goal is to have everything done by Nov 11..
05-28-2010, 11:37 AM
#7
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
You can see the "1st gear" effect in Tremec's ratings for the TKO-500 and 600 transmissions:
They are nearly identical (the design, cases, and basic components are identical) except for the first gear ratios--having a 3.27:1 first gear makes it a 500lbft unit, having the 2.87:1 first gear makes it a 600lbft rated gearbox...
They are nearly identical (the design, cases, and basic components are identical) except for the first gear ratios--having a 3.27:1 first gear makes it a 500lbft unit, having the 2.87:1 first gear makes it a 600lbft rated gearbox...
05-28-2010, 02:16 PM
#9
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
Anytime you add something that the factory engineers didn't you take a risk--the level ranges from a negligible very little to a whole lot. At 400+ HP on a stock 2V block you are approaching the "whole lot" end of the spectrum...
So, to quote Harry Callahan; "Do you feel lucky today? Well, do ya?"
So, to quote Harry Callahan; "Do you feel lucky today? Well, do ya?"