4.6L (1996-2004 Modular) Mustang Technical discussions on 1996-2004 4.6 Liter Modular Motors (2V and 4V) within.

Fuel Trims

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Old 11-06-2010, 02:48 PM
  #21  
cliffyk
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Originally Posted by swarthyfellow
I have another question regarding fuel trims. Is it always trimming up and down from from 14.7. Really my question is how accurate is using (MAF/(Air/fuel))/(#injectors*injector flowrate*80%) to calculate injector flow percentage and fuel flow rates and Why doesn't Recon show it for my 96?
The short term fuel trims are only generated and used in closed loop operation, so yes it is always relative to 14.7:1 AFR. Our cars do not provide any injector flow rate or pulse width data via the OBD2 port, therefore the injector duty cycle cannot be read or calculated.

Your formula is a bit confusing to me, the flow rate per injector is:

MAF/AFR/8

where MAF = airflow in lb/h, so airflow/AFR = lb/h of fuel, then divided by 8 injectors.

This is the actual flow rate per injector. That divided by the injector's rated capacity = the injector duty cycle.

Keep in mind that Recon displays and logs the MAF flow in kg/h, you need to multiply those values by 2.2046 to convert to lb/h.

So assuming Recon says the the air flow is 800kg/h, and the AFR is 12.5:1:

800kg/h * 2.2046 = 1764lb/h, making per injector rate 1764/12.5/8 = 17.64lb/h (easy math because 12.5 * 8 = 100).

If you have 19lb/h injectors then the injector duty cycle = 17.64/19 = 0.928 = 92.8%.

This is why Ford switched to 21lb/h injectors in 2002, with the PI engine the 19lb injectors were running at 95+% duty cycle. With the 21s that dropped to 88%+, still a bit high but better.
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Old 11-07-2010, 12:31 PM
  #22  
swarthyfellow
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So really what u are telling me is that if i want to know my A/R for sure i should be getting a meter. I have been doing some analysis of my 0-60 mph run last night, which was my fastest at just under 5.4 seconds, and for a A/F 14.7 i am at 80% injector duty. So if it is trying to make it anymore rich... which it was, it will be going over 80%. So it confirmed that i need bigger injectors. Just out of curiosity how much air will a bone stock non-pi motor pull?

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Old 11-07-2010, 01:24 PM
  #23  
cliffyk
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Originally Posted by swarthyfellow
So really what u are telling me is that if i want to know my A/R for sure i should be getting a meter.
You have to have a wideband O2 system to properly tune your engine. There's not really much more to talk about regarding fuel settings in SF until you get one.

I have been doing some analysis of my 0-60 mph run last night, which was my fastest at just under 5.4 seconds, and for a A/F 14.7 i am at 80% injector duty. So if it is trying to make it anymore rich... which it was, it will be going over 80%. So it confirmed that i need bigger injectors.
At WOT, at which I presume you were, your engine was running in open loop mode and was likely running an AFR of around 12.0:1 to 12.5:1 if you have not changed the stock fueling settings in the tune. They tend to run a bit rich from the factory to minimise the possibility of knock with crappy fuel.

However, once again I will say that you should not be mucking about with fuel settings unless you have a wideband O2 system.

Just out of curiosity how much air will a bone stock non-pi motor pull?
Here is some info about how much air our engines can consume. Using the 475cfm @ 6500 rpm number¹ for the 1st paragraph, at STP air has a density of 0.0749lb/f³ so 475cfm = 35.58lb/m = 2134lb/h.

It would take 2134/12.5 = 170.7lb/h of fuel to run a 12.5:1 AFR. 170.7/8 = 21.34lb/h per injector, so you would need injectors rated 21.34/0.8 = 26.7lb/h for them to be operating at 80% duty cycle.

But...

170.7lb/h of fuel would support 341fwHP, or 290 or so HP at the wheels.

The 19lb/h injectors used up until 2002, at 90% DC, can support 275fwHP(232rwHP); the 21lb/h units used in '02 through '04 would max out at 300fwHP(261rwHP).


All that said, the bottom line is that if you are running the original, orange, 19lb/h injectors they are indeed likely running at 95+% duty cycle at WOT and at peak HP.

At 262rwHP the 21s in my car were running at 90+%, I recently installed a set of 24lb/h EV6 injectors and the engine is much happier at the top end.

-------------------------------------------------
¹ - An NPI engine would never come near 90% VE, 80% VE would be more likely. Also, all of the above are only very fundamental "rule-of-thumb" assumptions and formulae.
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