Hangwire

+100000

Do not under any circumstances run anymore than 6 PSI NON/IC on a positive displacement blower or you're a fool. Thats A LOT OF HEAT. Even after my car is cruising at 180 F and I park it if you put your hand on or near the blower its hot as absolute hell and IC KBs run much cooler than stock Eaton blowers. Have any of you ever seen what the IATS start looking like with no intercooler on a supercharged engine? Does anybody know what your computer does when IATs get that hot? I'm guessing not. And its even worse if you have a silly air intake that pulls from the hot engine air. Our bottom ends will give out even with 10 PSI I/C. I personally wouldn't run any SC setup without an IC. I think you're mechanic wants to make the cash of two seperate labor charges and wants you to get your foot in the door.

supermario

Thanks for all the advice. I guess I will wait a lil longer so i can have the Intercooled setup. I want to do it the right way, especially since I have a stock motor. Would anybody know what the average cost to build up a stock block with forged pistons,crank,rods,cam,ring etc? If I were to build my my lower end up and have whatever head work needed AND I had an intercooled KB, would i be able to push out 500rwhp? Thanks for all the help. Im assuming the cost would probably the same as if i sold my GT and bought a Cobra. I saw one for $15k on craigslist but it didnt state the miles.

supermario

On another note, anybody know of Mustang shop that does great engine work? I probably would rather just have my engine built up first, rather than throw a SC on it. With a built motor, I should be able to get at least 350hp right? Thanks again.

Hangwire

Well you got two options. You can either buy a brand new engine already built @ MMR or you can buy a forged rotating assembly and have it installed. I'm not sure on exact costs but MMR is selling their blocks for pretty damn good prices. Decent forged rotating assemblies are $1500 with a $1000 minimum install charge. Yes you will easily see 500RWHP with a IC KB 2.1L @ maximum boost(14-16 PSI) and head work. You will see more.

supermario

Forgive me for my ignorance but a positive displacement blower is basically a roots style SC like KB or Whipple correct. So if i were planning on keeping my block stock and go with non intercooled, it would be best to go with a Vortech and keep it at about 5psi? I say this because the vortech is not a positive displacement blower and will not run as hot and keeping it at a lower psi should be fine with my stock engine correct? Only reason I ask these questions is because I really want some power to my Mustang but I cant afford the intercooled KB and I dont have the $$ yet to buy a forged shortblock. And if i did the buy forged shortblock, then I wouldnt have the $ for a SC. I would be happy if I can just spend about $3-$4k and have 350-400hp at the flywheel. Right now GTR Performance has the non cooled Vortech on sale for $3150. Plus a $700 install. Thats fits my budget. Im asking your opinions becus i dont want to end up with a damaged engine. Also I dont race at the track. I just want a faster car and it will be a daily driver. Thank all you soo much for all the help.

scooter3

I am running a Vortech set up at 8 pounds non intercooled. Although the car runs fine I can tell now that the weather has warmed up it does not run the same as when it was cooler. I see you live in Cali so weather there gets warm and on a daily driver that would be a lot of stress on the motor non intercooled. My intercooler is going on in a couple of weeks because summer is on its way. Mine is a DD also, but don't run the risk. While they are in there have them throw on the intercooler and call it a day

mrtstang

You are correct. There are a few ways that you could approach this, but if you must do a non intercooled setup then the Vortech would be the better choice. It will still heat soak to some extent, but not as bad as the twin screw.

LilRoush

Anyone crying about non intercooled PD set ups ever owned/driven/installed a positive displacement set up? Or is everyone vomiting what they read online and confusing it with FACTS?

Hangwire

Edited because I read that wrong. Yes Positive Displacement blowers refer to Twin-Screw and Roots style blowers. Heres a little info.

Picture roots as two paddles that are connected to eachother horizontally that are driven by a pulley and blow the air downward into the intake. The compression of the air(PSI) doesn't actually build until the air gets backed up in the intake manifold. There is no pressure inside of the case of the rotor blower. Contrary to the far too often assumption kenne bells are not a "blower" the way that centrifugal and roots superchargers are. They are not "blowers" at all infact.

Picture twin-screws as two, screw style machined rotors that intertwine with eachother and literally compress the air in between the pockets of the rotors. Twin-screws actually mechanically compress the air within the case and discharge the compressed air into the upper intake. The air is compressed(not blown) before the intake manifold - much different than a roots.

Hers a visual.

Eaton Rotor(paddles, blow air into intake)


Twin Screw(Screw machined rotors, compress air within case)


Pipe down squirt, I own and drive a KB 2.1L GT everyday. I installed every single bolt, nut and washer of all of my mods onto my car. I am speaking FACT here, you arent. Go and datalog 3-5 WOT highway pulls and then post your datalog file here, you wont. By the 3rd pull your engine will be pulling timing and your power will be diminished. There is a reason they put an intercooler and forged internals on the 03 Cobra, and it aint cuz they wanted customer to pay for useless stuff. You need to

Rockwell28

You are basicly rite about all of that im running 5psi non ic at the moment and it is a tad bit slower on the warmer days than it was a few months ago but my tuner,vortech support, and two different performance shops told me that 5psi with a centri blower/vortech,paxton etc.. that 5psi want build up serious heat so I want need to run an intercooler yet. But to be on the safe side in the near future I do want to go down a size on the pulley and add an aftermarket type intercooler. You will be fine with that kit and it will be quite a bit faster than your car is now. I see you're wanting 350-400hp at the FLYWHEEL well you will make or more than likely exceed that. Im pushing 339rwhp and 358 rwtq 5psi intercooled through an automatic. IF that 20% drivetrain loss is accurate then that equates to 406.8 flwheel hp and 429.6 flywheel tq. IF the auto sucks up 20% of the power then those are the numbers.