Why coilovers?
05-16-2011, 08:51 PM
#11
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SF Bay.
Posts: 3,035
Jazzer- I love the detail of your responses!
So how do lowering springs in the front relate to ride quality/comfort?
When I buy my struts I will try the Bilsteins from Maximummotorsports that say they are suitable for regular application or coil-over converstion. They sell a conversion kit that does both struts for less than $400.
So if I ever wanna give the coils a try I can. I'm sure someone around here would be willing to buy them off of me if I didn't like the feel, but from what I'm reading from your post I don't see how I wouldn't.
However for now I think I will be happy with the regular shocks and eventually the regular struts. But I'm greatful for the knowledge I've gained for future upgrading.
While I have you here Jazzer, what subframe support strengthening connectors do you recommend I have welded in?
So how do lowering springs in the front relate to ride quality/comfort?
When I buy my struts I will try the Bilsteins from Maximummotorsports that say they are suitable for regular application or coil-over converstion. They sell a conversion kit that does both struts for less than $400.
So if I ever wanna give the coils a try I can. I'm sure someone around here would be willing to buy them off of me if I didn't like the feel, but from what I'm reading from your post I don't see how I wouldn't.
However for now I think I will be happy with the regular shocks and eventually the regular struts. But I'm greatful for the knowledge I've gained for future upgrading.
While I have you here Jazzer, what subframe support strengthening connectors do you recommend I have welded in?
05-16-2011, 09:33 PM
#13
Retired Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 9,235
From my suspension guide:
Wheel Rate: The force it takes for your tire to move up and down. This means how quickly your tire will move into the bumps on the road. You calculate it by the spring rate multiplied by the leverage. In the case of your stock front suspension. Your spring is roughly 1/3 - 1/4 of the way from the pivot point to the wheel. This means you have a 1/3 to 1/4 mechanical advantage on your wheel. For example: With 800 lbs/in springs, the wheel rate is closer to 200-250 lbs/in. and my force on the bottom of my car is closer to 2/3 - 3/4 advantage. Meaning I feel 3/4 of the bump, and have 1/4 the wheel reaction time it could. This is the main reason coil-overs (CO's) are so much lower in spring rate. A 300 lbs spring will get 90% of its force on the tire and the same amount on the car. This means you will feel roughly half the force on the car and gain 50% more force on the wheel. This leads to better handling and more comfortable ride. There is no real downside to going CO's up front other than cost.
I did NOT write the above, but rather "tinkered" with it so that it reads well
As for sub-frame connectors? Aereon has got you covered there with a set of MM. Mine are truly hardcore and require the entire interior to be removed for installation of them. Quick story that happened the other day (may have said it here already, but think it was elsewhere) Coming out of a gas station on Saturday, there was a steep incline to the road surface of about 1" drop over 18" or so. I did my usual major angle to traverse it and not bottom out. I lost forward motion momentarily, due to one rear wheel being up in the air for a second
Below is a pic of my car a bit closer to the ground than normal
Peep the drivers-front tire and how far the wheel is beyond the sidewall:
Wheel Rate: The force it takes for your tire to move up and down. This means how quickly your tire will move into the bumps on the road. You calculate it by the spring rate multiplied by the leverage. In the case of your stock front suspension. Your spring is roughly 1/3 - 1/4 of the way from the pivot point to the wheel. This means you have a 1/3 to 1/4 mechanical advantage on your wheel. For example: With 800 lbs/in springs, the wheel rate is closer to 200-250 lbs/in. and my force on the bottom of my car is closer to 2/3 - 3/4 advantage. Meaning I feel 3/4 of the bump, and have 1/4 the wheel reaction time it could. This is the main reason coil-overs (CO's) are so much lower in spring rate. A 300 lbs spring will get 90% of its force on the tire and the same amount on the car. This means you will feel roughly half the force on the car and gain 50% more force on the wheel. This leads to better handling and more comfortable ride. There is no real downside to going CO's up front other than cost.
I did NOT write the above, but rather "tinkered" with it so that it reads well
As for sub-frame connectors? Aereon has got you covered there with a set of MM. Mine are truly hardcore and require the entire interior to be removed for installation of them. Quick story that happened the other day (may have said it here already, but think it was elsewhere) Coming out of a gas station on Saturday, there was a steep incline to the road surface of about 1" drop over 18" or so. I did my usual major angle to traverse it and not bottom out. I lost forward motion momentarily, due to one rear wheel being up in the air for a second
Below is a pic of my car a bit closer to the ground than normal
Peep the drivers-front tire and how far the wheel is beyond the sidewall:
05-16-2011, 10:04 PM
#14
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SF Bay.
Posts: 3,035
I need you to bring me to one of those events dammit.. I need to practice, I can't drive for crap now since I've been on my bike for the past 5 months.. Just lmk when theres an inexpensive event hehe.. unemployment + fun doesnt mix.
05-17-2011, 01:22 AM
#16
You must have deserved this kitty! I keeel you!
Cats suck, dogs are better. Well, with the exception of Jazzer I suppose.
I had a pool table in the basement and (wive's)cats that lived upstairs. They decided to relieve themselves wherever they felt like it. So I made them live in the basement.
One day they knocked over all of my pool cues and pi$$ed all over the wrapped string handles. The very next day we had outdoor cats. One left and never came back. The other hung out for a while and I can't remember what became of it and also can't remember if it mattered.
The only cat I seem to have any affiliaion with these days drives a racing stang and knows alot about suspension and tires.
I say blow the thing to the sky...but only according to PETA regulations of blowing up kitties. There are certain animal rights laws that must be adhered to before blowing up a kitty in the name of feline jihad.
Cats suck, dogs are better. Well, with the exception of Jazzer I suppose.
I had a pool table in the basement and (wive's)cats that lived upstairs. They decided to relieve themselves wherever they felt like it. So I made them live in the basement.
One day they knocked over all of my pool cues and pi$$ed all over the wrapped string handles. The very next day we had outdoor cats. One left and never came back. The other hung out for a while and I can't remember what became of it and also can't remember if it mattered.
The only cat I seem to have any affiliaion with these days drives a racing stang and knows alot about suspension and tires.
I say blow the thing to the sky...but only according to PETA regulations of blowing up kitties. There are certain animal rights laws that must be adhered to before blowing up a kitty in the name of feline jihad.
05-17-2011, 06:34 AM
#17
Retired Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 9,235
^ the above describes an issue with the OWNERS... not the cats! This would be true of ANY keeper of animals. If one does not take responsibility for the proper care, issues of this nature will always exist.
Cats ROCK and Tommy just got 1 strike
Cats ROCK and Tommy just got 1 strike
05-17-2011, 09:04 AM
#18
Well I was the one who changed their litter, and I couldn't stand the smell so I did it often. Short of that I don't know what I could have done to make them pee where they were supposed to pee. Maybe I could have joined a cat forum
I will take that strike but it comes off a foul tip.
I will take that strike but it comes off a foul tip.
Last edited by Tommy079; 05-17-2011 at 09:29 AM.
05-17-2011, 02:49 PM
#20
Ok so Jazzer, Aereon , and anyone else...Here is where I'm at on these rear shocks...
I solved my dilemma of being able to pay for those rear Grooved Bilstein rear shocks the way I want (with paypal) so that I can try rear coilovers in the future if I want to THANKS TO AEREON!!! I called stangsuspension like you said, and becaue they are a MM dealer they were able to provide me those shocks at just around $10 more than MM (but I can use my paypal).
So that should be PROBLEM SOLVED, Right? Well, then out of nowhere I get a response from this guy Norm on a thread I started on the best bang for your buck shocks, and he says, have you considered Koni Str.T? He said they are quite comparable to the Bilsteins, and are half the price (actually close to 1/3 of the price if I get the grooved Bilsteins).
So I called Stranoparts.com and talked for a while with the owner who felt that I could get by very nicely with Koni STR.T's. However, he also said that if I wanted to pay around the same thing I would be paying for Bilsteins that I could get the Koni Sports that are ADJUSTABLE! He said on their softest setting that they are about the same as the Koni STR's, but if I ever wanted to try out a stiffer shock that I'd have that option. And I do plan on going to a racing school next summer on a former Nascar racing track. So that would be nice to have for that.
So what do you guys think? Do you get what you pay for and the Bilstein HD's will cover me. Do I go for the STR's in hopes that at the lower price I will be comparable to the Bilstein. Or do I get an adjustable Shock at the same price?
Any input would help so much, because if it weren't for Norm and his awesome money saving idea I'd have a pair of grooved Bilsteins in my Stangsuspension shopping cart right now!
I solved my dilemma of being able to pay for those rear Grooved Bilstein rear shocks the way I want (with paypal) so that I can try rear coilovers in the future if I want to THANKS TO AEREON!!! I called stangsuspension like you said, and becaue they are a MM dealer they were able to provide me those shocks at just around $10 more than MM (but I can use my paypal).
So that should be PROBLEM SOLVED, Right? Well, then out of nowhere I get a response from this guy Norm on a thread I started on the best bang for your buck shocks, and he says, have you considered Koni Str.T? He said they are quite comparable to the Bilsteins, and are half the price (actually close to 1/3 of the price if I get the grooved Bilsteins).
So I called Stranoparts.com and talked for a while with the owner who felt that I could get by very nicely with Koni STR.T's. However, he also said that if I wanted to pay around the same thing I would be paying for Bilsteins that I could get the Koni Sports that are ADJUSTABLE! He said on their softest setting that they are about the same as the Koni STR's, but if I ever wanted to try out a stiffer shock that I'd have that option. And I do plan on going to a racing school next summer on a former Nascar racing track. So that would be nice to have for that.
So what do you guys think? Do you get what you pay for and the Bilstein HD's will cover me. Do I go for the STR's in hopes that at the lower price I will be comparable to the Bilstein. Or do I get an adjustable Shock at the same price?
Any input would help so much, because if it weren't for Norm and his awesome money saving idea I'd have a pair of grooved Bilsteins in my Stangsuspension shopping cart right now!
Last edited by Tommy079; 05-17-2011 at 02:52 PM.