disposablehero27

Fresh buily motor. 300miles on it. Sat at fastlane motorsports for 30 some days. It idle rough before i took it in. Ran so rich you couldnt stand near it because it smoked so bad. They worked and worked on it. Told me...runs rough when its cold. After it warms up its fine. No. Its not

PROBLEM 1) hit the key...revs up runs for 1/2 a sec dies. Over and over. Give it some carburator pedal...she fights you to die,sometimes still does, 1min of running...stays alive...rpms everywhere. runs.

PROBLEM 2) Driving down the road. All is fine. You depress the clutch at any gear/speed over 1900rpms....plummets and dies flat in its face about 98% of the time. This car died on me 3 times just trying to park it. If your off the pedal when driving. My a/f is 18.1 max of my meter for about 30seconds....then hits 15/16 jumping around. At reg throttle crusing...runs like a dream. Great throttle response. No prolems. Idles.coasts. and stopping...eating me alive.


They told me they replaced and tried new IAC. Sprayed everywhere looking for vac. Leaks...no vac leaks they found. Tuned and tuned and charged me for tuning again. Probs not fixed. HELP

cliffyk

Without seeing the tune it is not really possible to say.

Use of the BA-3000 MAF means that the transfer function, manifold volume, air charge and injector slopes would have to have been scaled to handle its flow, as the EECV PCM can only deal with 3830 lb/h air flow. The BA-3000 pegs at 7000 lb/h.

Also, that is a bear of engine--it is likely it will never idle particularly well. The 80 lb/h injectors are good to 1000 fwHP (850 at the wheels) at just 40 psi fuel pressure.

Do you know what the f/p is? If that the HP range you expect to be in?

If not 60 or 72 lb/h injectors and an AFPR would be a better choice as better injector control at idle would be more easily achieved.

60 lb/h injectors running at 60 psi would support 890 fwHP, 750 at the wheels, and be a heck of a lot better behaved at idle.

In any event, you have reached a plateau where you will need a top-notch tuner with a lot of experience with boosted engines. You are also right up near the point where the stock EECV PCM gets out of its league...

disposablehero27

My fuel pressure with a vac. line connected is 27psi. Procharger was expecting 625-650 when they dont the calc's with my mods and compareables with the p1sc. So no, not really, its low. I believe your right when needing a top notch tuner. I was highly recommened to fastlane in benson nc, and they have been messing with it for weeks. I was told its running fine until it warms up... now it seems to be getting worse. if i am off the throttle, its 18.1 a/f. when cruising, 15/16. at cold start, you have to pedal to keep alive. cold idle is 16.6 and bounces to 17.3 if you rev it up at all. dies. Rolling idle, 18.0 now, before 18.0 for 10 sec. then 15/16.

Something with the fuel map and idle circuit I would think. I'm losing patience with fastlane as they have had it since july 5th, and i'm sitting at home with a nearly undriveable vehicle that i was told was ready to go.

Moving to lower lb injectors is an option, a painful one, but if thats what needs to be done, i've had them on and off three times.

cliffyk

Was that the f/p with the vacuum line connected, at as good an idle as you can get? Was it relatively steady?

Have you checked the vacuum level at the regulator? If it is jumping all over (which it might be) that would make the fuel pressure/delivery jump all over too.

The injector breakpoint, minimum pulse width and low slope value are also parameters that can affect idle when larger injectors are used. Reducing the low slope value may help richen the mix at idle speeds, by telling the PCM the injector is "smaller" it will lengthen the injector pulse width to get the amount of fuel it wants.

A couple other things to look at are:

The Cold Spark Base Value Table - adding spark advance when the engine is cold can improve idle characteristics;

The Cold Spark RPM/Load Adjustment Table - as above;

And of course all of the ECT, IAT and other IAC (ISC) tweaks for timing and bumping the idle speed when the engine/air are cold.

disposablehero27

The vaccuum is connected at the regulator, however I have not tested the vaccuum at the regulator. Once the vehicle has ran for a minute or two, the ide is set at 1k and most of the time its pretty steady, it has been intermittenly up and down up and down, 900/1200.

I have cleaned, replaced totally new, and tested with a seperate IAC to eliminate its possibility. I will need to find where the ECT is located and check it as well.

I have mechanical capabilities, however any tuning I will have to leave to the speed shops as i have no way to tune it myself.

cliffyk

Feel free to share my message with your tuner, they may have done all that already. However you need to realise that in the direction you have gone you no longer have an "idle smooth as silk at 750 rpm" engine. The idle may need to be pushed up to 1000 to 1200 rpm or more to keep in spinning...

disposablehero27

Right. It is set to 1000rpms. Its just running more lean than stallone in rocky III. As far as reaching the end of my stock EECV PCM. Is this my (computer) basically what is it? Where is it? How expensive is it to upgrade? And how many days will I be cussing and throwing things attempting to have it upgraded?

cliffyk

Yes the PCM is the Powertrain Control Module, Ford's name for the ECU (Engine Control Unit) or computer. EECV (Electronic Engine Control version 5, aka "eek-5") is the family to which the computers in our cars belong.

The EECV system can only directly process airflows of up to 1741 kg/h, or 3830 lb/h; this airflow will support some 560 fwHP running f/i, or 475 at the wheels (rule-of-thumb numbers). To go beyond that you have to trick it by telling it the engine, MAF and injectors are smaller than they really are.

This is called "scaling" the tune and it is a somewhat complex and time consuming task because the values that need to be scaled interact with one another and there is a lot of "back and forth". In addition as maximum engine power output increases so does the range over which the PCM is expected to keep things operating properly. In your case from 0 to 260 fwHP to 0 to 750 fwHP. That's quite a jump, and well beyond what Ford designed the EECV to do.

The details of scaling the values mentioned above, and tuning your fire-breather would fill a book, and have filled several books over the years; a few being written by Greg Banish:




The first deals with tuning stock ECUs, the last two get into aftermarket engine control systems, which may be something you will want to look into.

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Getting back to your immediate challenges, you need to either find a tuner with a lot of experience in tuning very high-performance engines (which 160 HP/liter certainly is, well into motorcycle territory); or buy some books and a proper tuning system, then read a whole lot and do it yourself.

Ask and shop around, try to find a tuning shop that has tuned at least 4 or 5 Mustang engines in your performance range. Don't take their word for it, if they have actually done so they will have photos, owner's names and dyno charts readily available or on prominent display.

Make it clear that you only pay for results: if they have a problem with that find another shop--keep looking 'til you find one that says "That's how we do it."

Ask them about alternatives to using the stock EECV system. You probably don't want to go in that direction as it won't be cheap, however if they do not have any suggestions you may want to keep looking as your build may be out of their league.

Then in the last, it is possible that the shop you have been using is competent, that your build has just jumped over the EECV's limits, and that a stable idle just isn't going to happen...

disposablehero27

Thank you for sharing this knowledge. I will continue to soak it up and continue researching. Given the values stated in the beginning and knowing that its an idle problem even if im driving and let off tge throttle to 18.1 a/f....is this thing safe to drive? 15/16 cruising. Off throttle at any point while moving 18.1. Cold start and restart troubles are bareable. Stalling out every stop light aggervating but as long as its safe....im ok being patient for new tunes. Cold start a/f is 16.6/17.3. Would you be driving this?

cliffyk

The lean mix with the throttle closed is irrelevant, the PCM does this and unless modified will actually shut down the injectors after a set period of closed throttle, sending the AFR to as lean as it can get (I.e. fresh air).

15 to 16:1 AFR at cruising is not scary high, as long as it drops to under 14:1 on acceleration, and hopefully down to 12:1 or a bit less at WOT. A lot of the econoboxes run 15 to 16:1 at cruising speeds as that is where maximum fuel economy is to be found.

Cold start being 16.5 to 17+ is bothersome, however you did not mention cams? With a broad overlap dialing in AFR at start up and/or idle can be a bear...

Overall I would drive it, but not too hard, for too far, for too long; just far enough to get it to a good tuner. And don't let the AFRs get any leaner.


FWIW those AFRs pretty much rule out the possibility that the shop you have been using is competent. The first thing I would do would be to see how the programmed transfer function lines up with the BA-3000 transfer function. And if close within reason then reduce the low and high injector slopes by 10 to 15% (maybe a tad more) to broadly richen the mix.

With 80 lb/h injectors and the BA-3000 they should be around 52 lb/h (low slope) and 43 lb/h (high slope) as a starting points.