Interupted firmware update and stock tune upload car won't start
08-28-2012, 03:50 PM
#11
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
So before you stated that i may be overriding the limits of my computer, and its an expensive route to go, you didn't think I would want to do that unless i had to. I assume that since the pcm is cheap, this is one of the many pieces involved in upgrading my car's electronics to handle the power, OR, not part of it at all.
I don't care to argue about any of this, I am trying to help...
08-28-2012, 05:35 PM
#12
4th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,216
Oh no! I was not argueing at all. I was asking because i have no idea. You nay have misread my tone. I was simply asking....i may have fried an electronic piece in my car. Is that the piece i am reaching the limits of, and if i did should i upgrade. From your response its not the pcm. Its the ECU. Is this difficult to upgrade outside of the price, i dont even know where its located.
I apologize for the misunderstanding as i am in no position to argue and i was just asking more questions.
I apologize for the misunderstanding as i am in no position to argue and i was just asking more questions.
Last edited by disposablehero27; 08-28-2012 at 07:32 PM.
08-28-2012, 05:45 PM
#13
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,387
I just went through the EXACT same thing, ask Cliff, lol. 99% your PCM is done. A new PCM from Ford is $738. With labor, it cost $1202 to get mine back. Ebay will save you money, but you'll need Ford to fix it.
The PCM is the ECU, btw.
If your handheld is scrambled a bit, contact SCT. They can come through your computer and fix it. If you have your tune files saved, then you can upload and retune the car.
After you retune the car, go back to the computer, start the software, plug in the tuner, and click, "Get stock tune from device." You can save a copy of your stock tune on your computer. I also recommend attaching it to an email in a google or yahoo account and saving it as a draft. It's a free back up, of sorts.
One more thing. IF you work with SCT, they may be able to "manufacture" a base tune to get your car running, but it will be based on the stock tune and it will not have passive anti-theft. It is a temp fix, but it allowed me to drive to the dealership for repair.
The PCM is the ECU, btw.
If your handheld is scrambled a bit, contact SCT. They can come through your computer and fix it. If you have your tune files saved, then you can upload and retune the car.
After you retune the car, go back to the computer, start the software, plug in the tuner, and click, "Get stock tune from device." You can save a copy of your stock tune on your computer. I also recommend attaching it to an email in a google or yahoo account and saving it as a draft. It's a free back up, of sorts.
One more thing. IF you work with SCT, they may be able to "manufacture" a base tune to get your car running, but it will be based on the stock tune and it will not have passive anti-theft. It is a temp fix, but it allowed me to drive to the dealership for repair.
08-28-2012, 07:35 PM
#14
4th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,216
I went through SCT, and they were unable to go through my computer to fix the handheld. They asked me to remove the PCM and send both the computer and the handheld to them as they were going to try and save it. So good chance its toast, great. So the pcm is the ecu, so if it is fried, i can explore the option of upgrading...
Where can I find new aftermarket ECU's to purchase,which do you recommend, and what is the advantage of this over stock, and how many different types are there. Why would one normally upgrade this if they didn't fry them and need more hp. etc etc etc. thanks for all the help guys.
Now that i think of it, and began some research, I recieved a chip that plugs into my pcm with my procharger kit. I have no idea what it is or is for, and i was told from my tuner it was best to leave it out until they have it tuned properly etc. Reading up on some ecu modifications, it looks like this may be what I have.
Modular Mustang Racing offers a xfi 2.0 fully programmable engine control system for $2000. ouch.
Where can I find new aftermarket ECU's to purchase,which do you recommend, and what is the advantage of this over stock, and how many different types are there. Why would one normally upgrade this if they didn't fry them and need more hp. etc etc etc. thanks for all the help guys.
Now that i think of it, and began some research, I recieved a chip that plugs into my pcm with my procharger kit. I have no idea what it is or is for, and i was told from my tuner it was best to leave it out until they have it tuned properly etc. Reading up on some ecu modifications, it looks like this may be what I have.
Modular Mustang Racing offers a xfi 2.0 fully programmable engine control system for $2000. ouch.
Last edited by disposablehero27; 08-28-2012 at 07:58 PM.
08-28-2012, 10:12 PM
#16
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
Wait until SCT works on it, there is a 75/25 or better chance they can force feed it to get it up and running.
The chip you received with the Procharger is a tune¹. The PCM (which is the "ECU", "computer", etc.) has a card edge connector called the J3 diagnostic port, that is an alternate way of changing the tune--alternate as opposed to electronically flashing the EEPROM (Electrically Erasable Read Only Memory).
the J3 port:
When a "chip" is connected to this port it overrides the tune flashed into the PCM. In technical terms, the memory on the chip is mapped to replace the EEPROM memory onboard the PCM. It is a quick and positive way of changing the tune.
Some chip tuning systems can hold multiple tunes, the Delta Force system I use can hold eight that can be switched in and out as you drive.
Delta Force Tuning's chip based system:
That is the "chip" in the left foreground, the "burner" that lets you flash any of the eight tunes to the chip in the back, and the switch for selecting one of the eight tune to be active on the right.
Which all brings up another issue, if the tuner actually said "...it was best to leave it out until they have it tuned properly..." then they are more incompetent than I would have believed possible.
Once the ProCharger chip was plugged in it would override anything they programmed into the PCM--if they did not know this then they do not know shìt about tuning an EECIV or EECV PCM.
SCT does sell a chip based system that as an SCT shop they should know about...
I have never used any of the aftermarket ECUs on a Mustang (I had one on my '92 Miata with the M-62 Eaton), however a quick Google search will get you pointed in toward some. As I said earlier it will not be a cheap, fast or easy alternative.
One thing I need to ask is what are your goals for this build? You are right at the line between an fast track only car and an unpleasant to drive street car.
Slow down a bit and think about what you want the car to be, see what SCT says about the PCM and go from there...
-----------------------------------------------
¹ - It is not inconceivable that your PCM would function if you plugged in the Procharger chip. This would depend on how the chip was set up, but it could work. If ProCharger did not provide instructions for cleaning the J3 port and installing the chip give me a yell.
The chip you received with the Procharger is a tune¹. The PCM (which is the "ECU", "computer", etc.) has a card edge connector called the J3 diagnostic port, that is an alternate way of changing the tune--alternate as opposed to electronically flashing the EEPROM (Electrically Erasable Read Only Memory).
the J3 port:
When a "chip" is connected to this port it overrides the tune flashed into the PCM. In technical terms, the memory on the chip is mapped to replace the EEPROM memory onboard the PCM. It is a quick and positive way of changing the tune.
Some chip tuning systems can hold multiple tunes, the Delta Force system I use can hold eight that can be switched in and out as you drive.
Delta Force Tuning's chip based system:
That is the "chip" in the left foreground, the "burner" that lets you flash any of the eight tunes to the chip in the back, and the switch for selecting one of the eight tune to be active on the right.
Which all brings up another issue, if the tuner actually said "...it was best to leave it out until they have it tuned properly..." then they are more incompetent than I would have believed possible.
Once the ProCharger chip was plugged in it would override anything they programmed into the PCM--if they did not know this then they do not know shìt about tuning an EECIV or EECV PCM.
SCT does sell a chip based system that as an SCT shop they should know about...
I have never used any of the aftermarket ECUs on a Mustang (I had one on my '92 Miata with the M-62 Eaton), however a quick Google search will get you pointed in toward some. As I said earlier it will not be a cheap, fast or easy alternative.
One thing I need to ask is what are your goals for this build? You are right at the line between an fast track only car and an unpleasant to drive street car.
Slow down a bit and think about what you want the car to be, see what SCT says about the PCM and go from there...
-----------------------------------------------
¹ - It is not inconceivable that your PCM would function if you plugged in the Procharger chip. This would depend on how the chip was set up, but it could work. If ProCharger did not provide instructions for cleaning the J3 port and installing the chip give me a yell.
08-29-2012, 07:39 AM
#17
I just went through the EXACT same thing, ask Cliff, lol. 99% your PCM is done. A new PCM from Ford is $738. With labor, it cost $1202 to get mine back. Ebay will save you money, but you'll need Ford to fix it.
The PCM is the ECU, btw.
If your handheld is scrambled a bit, contact SCT. They can come through your computer and fix it. If you have your tune files saved, then you can upload and retune the car.
After you retune the car, go back to the computer, start the software, plug in the tuner, and click, "Get stock tune from device." You can save a copy of your stock tune on your computer. I also recommend attaching it to an email in a google or yahoo account and saving it as a draft. It's a free back up, of sorts.
One more thing. IF you work with SCT, they may be able to "manufacture" a base tune to get your car running, but it will be based on the stock tune and it will not have passive anti-theft. It is a temp fix, but it allowed me to drive to the dealership for repair.
The PCM is the ECU, btw.
If your handheld is scrambled a bit, contact SCT. They can come through your computer and fix it. If you have your tune files saved, then you can upload and retune the car.
After you retune the car, go back to the computer, start the software, plug in the tuner, and click, "Get stock tune from device." You can save a copy of your stock tune on your computer. I also recommend attaching it to an email in a google or yahoo account and saving it as a draft. It's a free back up, of sorts.
One more thing. IF you work with SCT, they may be able to "manufacture" a base tune to get your car running, but it will be based on the stock tune and it will not have passive anti-theft. It is a temp fix, but it allowed me to drive to the dealership for repair.
08-29-2012, 07:40 AM
#18
I went through SCT, and they were unable to go through my computer to fix the handheld. They asked me to remove the PCM and send both the computer and the handheld to them as they were going to try and save it. So good chance its toast, great. So the pcm is the ecu, so if it is fried, i can explore the option of upgrading...
Where can I find new aftermarket ECU's to purchase,which do you recommend, and what is the advantage of this over stock, and how many different types are there. Why would one normally upgrade this if they didn't fry them and need more hp. etc etc etc. thanks for all the help guys.
Now that i think of it, and began some research, I recieved a chip that plugs into my pcm with my procharger kit. I have no idea what it is or is for, and i was told from my tuner it was best to leave it out until they have it tuned properly etc. Reading up on some ecu modifications, it looks like this may be what I have.
Modular Mustang Racing offers a xfi 2.0 fully programmable engine control system for $2000. ouch.
Where can I find new aftermarket ECU's to purchase,which do you recommend, and what is the advantage of this over stock, and how many different types are there. Why would one normally upgrade this if they didn't fry them and need more hp. etc etc etc. thanks for all the help guys.
Now that i think of it, and began some research, I recieved a chip that plugs into my pcm with my procharger kit. I have no idea what it is or is for, and i was told from my tuner it was best to leave it out until they have it tuned properly etc. Reading up on some ecu modifications, it looks like this may be what I have.
Modular Mustang Racing offers a xfi 2.0 fully programmable engine control system for $2000. ouch.
08-29-2012, 08:06 AM
#19
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
I am responsible for putting the aftermarket ECU "bee" in disposable's bonnet, having mentioned to him that at his anticipated 700+ fwHP he was pushing the stock PCM up close to it's practical limit; and that using it, and getting it right, would require a top-notch tuner experienced in such builds--or that he perhaps look into aftermarket ECUs.
However I think the real problem is that the shop he has been dealing with is, for whatever reason, not capable of properly tuning his engine.
What is more disturbing to me though is the crap they have been feeding the poor fellow; that 15:1 to 18:1 are acceptable AFRs, that the ProCharger chip should not be installed until "after they have tuned it properly", and most importantly that they charged him money for for not producing a proper result.
It may be that there is something about the build that precludes proper tuning, Lord knows I have run into more than one of those, however it is the tuner's responsibility to provide the owner with suggestions and alternatives for modifications that will make it tunable--not deliver it in unstable and undriveable condition accompanied by a bill...
However I think the real problem is that the shop he has been dealing with is, for whatever reason, not capable of properly tuning his engine.
What is more disturbing to me though is the crap they have been feeding the poor fellow; that 15:1 to 18:1 are acceptable AFRs, that the ProCharger chip should not be installed until "after they have tuned it properly", and most importantly that they charged him money for for not producing a proper result.
It may be that there is something about the build that precludes proper tuning, Lord knows I have run into more than one of those, however it is the tuner's responsibility to provide the owner with suggestions and alternatives for modifications that will make it tunable--not deliver it in unstable and undriveable condition accompanied by a bill...
Last edited by cliffyk; 08-29-2012 at 08:45 AM.
08-29-2012, 08:12 AM
#20
I am responsible for putting the aftermarket ECU "bee" in disposable's bonnet, having mentioned to him that at his anticipated 700+ fwHP he was pushing the stock PCM right up to it's practical limit; and that using it, and getting it right, would require a top-notch tuner experienced in such builds--or that he perhaps look into aftermarket ECUs.
However I think the real problem is that the shop he has been dealing with is, for whatever reason, not capable of properly tuning his engine.
What is more disturbing to me though is the crap they have been feeding the poor fellow; that 15:1 to 18:1 are acceptable AFRs, that the ProCharger chip should not be installed until "after they have tuned it properly", and most importantly that they charged him money for for not producing a proper result.
It may be that there is something about the build that precludes proper tuning, Lord knows I have run into more than one of those, however it is the tuner's responsibility to provide the owner with suggestions and alternatives for modifications that will make it tunable--not deliver it in unstable and undriveable condition accompanied by a bill...
However I think the real problem is that the shop he has been dealing with is, for whatever reason, not capable of properly tuning his engine.
What is more disturbing to me though is the crap they have been feeding the poor fellow; that 15:1 to 18:1 are acceptable AFRs, that the ProCharger chip should not be installed until "after they have tuned it properly", and most importantly that they charged him money for for not producing a proper result.
It may be that there is something about the build that precludes proper tuning, Lord knows I have run into more than one of those, however it is the tuner's responsibility to provide the owner with suggestions and alternatives for modifications that will make it tunable--not deliver it in unstable and undriveable condition accompanied by a bill...