CAI Opinions
11-06-2005, 08:02 PM
#12
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,387
RE: CAI Opinions
ORIGINAL: garygreen211
CAI only works when it takes cold air from outside and delivers it to the engine. If you have a shiny tube, big filter, fancy logo, that does not make it work better. IMO the best CAI are from people that test. Rousch, MARCH ram air, and a few others. But when you buy one it should either take air from fender or bumper. The one that takes air from bumper is also known as ram air, it is not, it's just cold air. (it take a very big velocity stack to achieve any measurable ram air effect) Also, you shouldn't listen to people who say there is no difference from taking air from under the hood and taking air from the bumper or fender, there are some good dyno sheets that make those people look like idiots.
My money is on MARCH cold air intake, and maybe some better flowing pipe between air box and throttle body, but only if you have better flowing intake manifold and heads.
Gary
CAI only works when it takes cold air from outside and delivers it to the engine. If you have a shiny tube, big filter, fancy logo, that does not make it work better. IMO the best CAI are from people that test. Rousch, MARCH ram air, and a few others. But when you buy one it should either take air from fender or bumper. The one that takes air from bumper is also known as ram air, it is not, it's just cold air. (it take a very big velocity stack to achieve any measurable ram air effect) Also, you shouldn't listen to people who say there is no difference from taking air from under the hood and taking air from the bumper or fender, there are some good dyno sheets that make those people look like idiots.
My money is on MARCH cold air intake, and maybe some better flowing pipe between air box and throttle body, but only if you have better flowing intake manifold and heads.
Gary
Yes, we all know that cold air is better due to density, and therefore, an intercooled system will produce more hp. I don't think the difference in CAIs is worth it.
In short, kwlinder, stick with what you have. If you decide on a forced air system in the future, go intercooled. Until then, your CAI is fine. I agree with ibeeskeef, twists in the tubing restrict air flow (minimal) and create unwanted turbulence.
11-06-2005, 10:35 PM
#13
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,781
RE: CAI Opinions
its not worth the money to get 4-5 hp if your lucky. K&N is one of if not the best intake there is out. I have one and have no problems with fitment. I wouldn't waste my money getting another one when you won't even get the gains as the FIPK. If its fitment you want then just put the stock one back on. I would play around with it now and see if you can get it to fit better. Use force to make it fit to nothing is going to break unless you come across something super fragile which nothing involved in this is. Go spend the money on gears or some other mod that will compliment the CAI.
also the FIPK works best when at the track when you remove your passenger side headlight and the air just shoots right into the filter as opposed to one that is hidden in the fenderwell
also the FIPK works best when at the track when you remove your passenger side headlight and the air just shoots right into the filter as opposed to one that is hidden in the fenderwell
11-07-2005, 08:41 AM
#14
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 48
RE: CAI Opinions
ORIGINAL: 04BlueGT
I had a fender well kit for 3 months and replaced it with a Steeda kit. While the Steeda kit sits in the engine bay, it is shrouded to help pull air from the fender well. The difference was knight and day. This may be simply that the Steeda filter is an order of magnitude larger than any you can squeeze into the fender.
Yes, we all know that cold air is better due to density, and therefore, an intercooled system will produce more hp. I don't think the difference in CAIs is worth it.
I had a fender well kit for 3 months and replaced it with a Steeda kit. While the Steeda kit sits in the engine bay, it is shrouded to help pull air from the fender well. The difference was knight and day. This may be simply that the Steeda filter is an order of magnitude larger than any you can squeeze into the fender.
Yes, we all know that cold air is better due to density, and therefore, an intercooled system will produce more hp. I don't think the difference in CAIs is worth it.
Size of filter will not make difference, shape does. Conical filters are velocity stacks, air goes faster through them. That does not mean air goes faster into the engine, it simply means air goes faster through the filter, creating turbulences. These turbulences and increased air velocity will skew MAF sensor readings. What you felt there was ECC-V trying to adjust for skewed intake air mass readings. Add more fuel, add more spark, that sort of thing. No matter what you felt there, you have no dyno results of before and after. We don't trust your accelerometer you call the sit of my pants. On the contrary, there are some dyno sheets that show horsepower and torque gains whilst a true cold air intake system was installed.
Again, when you go by the sit of your pants, and by believes, you don't get far in automotive world. You need real life data. In fact as a tuner you are a scientist, you should only believe data. There is something we call a unified theory of gas. This little theory deals with gas and fuel vapor. Gas being air the more denser it is the more compact it is, and thus the more we can get into the combustion chamber. This theory have been proved over and over since it's creation over a century or two ago. So when you say "I do not think denser air will make more power" you are dead wrong.
10 rwhp * 1/$150 = $15 per rwhp Well worth it.
Gary
11-07-2005, 08:48 AM
#15
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 48
RE: CAI Opinions
ORIGINAL: DILO2001GT
its not worth the money to get 4-5 hp if your lucky. K&N is one of if not the best intake there is out.
its not worth the money to get 4-5 hp if your lucky. K&N is one of if not the best intake there is out.
You are right. 4-5 hp is usually how much chassis dyno deviate. However, you do not have a CIA. You are scooping hot air and thus you do not have any gains, in fact, don't be surprised if you downgraded from the stock air box.
As far as K&N being the best, I highly doubt it. CAI must take air from bumper or fender, or the hood scoop, then you getting your money's worth. Forget large sight to be hold filters inside your hood, forget half open enclosures that channel air from fender. If filter is under the hood it is only a CAI if the filter is completely enclosed inside of air box.
Getting CAI these days is like getting rims. Some go for fancy 22", and some go for functional 17".
Gary
11-07-2005, 09:03 AM
#16
Retired MF Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,891
RE: CAI Opinions
ORIGINAL: garygreen211
You are right. 4-5 hp is usually how much chassis dyno deviate. However, you do not have a CIA. You are scooping hot air and thus you do not have any gains, in fact, don't be surprised if you downgraded from the stock air box.
As far as K&N being the best, I highly doubt it. CAI must take air from bumper or fender, or the hood scoop, then you getting your money's worth. Forget large sight to be hold filters inside your hood, forget half open enclosures that channel air from fender. If filter is under the hood it is only a CAI if the filter is completely enclosed inside of air box.
Getting CAI these days is like getting rims. Some go for fancy 22", and some go for functional 17".
Gary
ORIGINAL: DILO2001GT
its not worth the money to get 4-5 hp if your lucky. K&N is one of if not the best intake there is out.
its not worth the money to get 4-5 hp if your lucky. K&N is one of if not the best intake there is out.
You are right. 4-5 hp is usually how much chassis dyno deviate. However, you do not have a CIA. You are scooping hot air and thus you do not have any gains, in fact, don't be surprised if you downgraded from the stock air box.
As far as K&N being the best, I highly doubt it. CAI must take air from bumper or fender, or the hood scoop, then you getting your money's worth. Forget large sight to be hold filters inside your hood, forget half open enclosures that channel air from fender. If filter is under the hood it is only a CAI if the filter is completely enclosed inside of air box.
Getting CAI these days is like getting rims. Some go for fancy 22", and some go for functional 17".
Gary
11-07-2005, 10:16 AM
#17
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,387
RE: CAI Opinions
ORIGINAL: garygreen211
Size of filter will not make difference, shape does. Conical filters are velocity stacks, air goes faster through them. That does not mean air goes faster into the engine, it simply means air goes faster through the filter, creating turbulences. These turbulences and increased air velocity will skew MAF sensor readings. What you felt there was ECC-V trying to adjust for skewed intake air mass readings. Add more fuel, add more spark, that sort of thing. No matter what you felt there, you have no dyno results of before and after. We don't trust your accelerometer you call the sit of my pants. On the contrary, there are some dyno sheets that show horsepower and torque gains whilst a true cold air intake system was installed.
Again, when you go by the sit of your pants, and by believes, you don't get far in automotive world. You need real life data. In fact as a tuner you are a scientist, you should only believe data. There is something we call a unified theory of gas. This little theory deals with gas and fuel vapor. Gas being air the more denser it is the more compact it is, and thus the more we can get into the combustion chamber. This theory have been proved over and over since it's creation over a century or two ago. So when you say "I do not think denser air will make more power" you are dead wrong.
10 rwhp * 1/$150 = $15 per rwhp Well worth it.
Gary
Size of filter will not make difference, shape does. Conical filters are velocity stacks, air goes faster through them. That does not mean air goes faster into the engine, it simply means air goes faster through the filter, creating turbulences. These turbulences and increased air velocity will skew MAF sensor readings. What you felt there was ECC-V trying to adjust for skewed intake air mass readings. Add more fuel, add more spark, that sort of thing. No matter what you felt there, you have no dyno results of before and after. We don't trust your accelerometer you call the sit of my pants. On the contrary, there are some dyno sheets that show horsepower and torque gains whilst a true cold air intake system was installed.
Again, when you go by the sit of your pants, and by believes, you don't get far in automotive world. You need real life data. In fact as a tuner you are a scientist, you should only believe data. There is something we call a unified theory of gas. This little theory deals with gas and fuel vapor. Gas being air the more denser it is the more compact it is, and thus the more we can get into the combustion chamber. This theory have been proved over and over since it's creation over a century or two ago. So when you say "I do not think denser air will make more power" you are dead wrong.
10 rwhp * 1/$150 = $15 per rwhp Well worth it.
Gary
Second, if you're going to quote me, get it straight. Read my post again. I never made the statement "I do not think denser air will make more power". Of course denser air makes more power. My children know that. Either quote me correctly, or shut the hell up.
Third. We all know what science is. In fact, more than a few of the 'idiots' on this forum have degrees. Don't come here and talk down to others. Besides, quoting others' scientific data does not make you an authority. Hell, most of us can read, too. The idea is to share knowledge, not to try to prove you're better.
I'm not going to call you stupid or any nonsense like that. You may know a lot or not. Just realize that not everyone on this forum wants 900 rwhp and worships at the dyno alter. Some of us just like to improve a little on the stock vehicle.
The numbers are fine to quote, but every car is different; every driver is different. If you can put the same S/C on two identical cars and get two different results, then why not the same with intakes?
11-07-2005, 03:12 PM
#19
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,781
RE: CAI Opinions
ORIGINAL: garygreen211
You are right. 4-5 hp is usually how much chassis dyno deviate. However, you do not have a CIA. You are scooping hot air and thus you do not have any gains, in fact, don't be surprised if you downgraded from the stock air box.
As far as K&N being the best, I highly doubt it. CAI must take air from bumper or fender, or the hood scoop, then you getting your money's worth. Forget large sight to be hold filters inside your hood, forget half open enclosures that channel air from fender. If filter is under the hood it is only a CAI if the filter is completely enclosed inside of air box.
Getting CAI these days is like getting rims. Some go for fancy 22", and some go for functional 17".
Gary
ORIGINAL: DILO2001GT
its not worth the money to get 4-5 hp if your lucky. K&N is one of if not the best intake there is out.
its not worth the money to get 4-5 hp if your lucky. K&N is one of if not the best intake there is out.
You are right. 4-5 hp is usually how much chassis dyno deviate. However, you do not have a CIA. You are scooping hot air and thus you do not have any gains, in fact, don't be surprised if you downgraded from the stock air box.
As far as K&N being the best, I highly doubt it. CAI must take air from bumper or fender, or the hood scoop, then you getting your money's worth. Forget large sight to be hold filters inside your hood, forget half open enclosures that channel air from fender. If filter is under the hood it is only a CAI if the filter is completely enclosed inside of air box.
Getting CAI these days is like getting rims. Some go for fancy 22", and some go for functional 17".
Gary
for K&N and Steeda type CAI you just remove the passenger side headlight and that seems like enough air going straight into the intake. I only race at the track so maybe on the street this isn't what your gonna do but if you street race say from a roll on the highway there would be enough air already in the engine bay to get sucked in. Its kinds like the Mach 1. People have put that same system on the GT and gotten no better gains than a FIPK and if they did it was only by a few hp. a cai doesn't get as much as advertised and if so those are gains from a Cobra. Its like a cat-back you won't see any real gains that are spectacular though some claim 15whp which is crazy. Im pretty sure K&N is one of the best too there was an article in one of the magazines from a few years back that claimed them near the top with steeda only a hp or 2 behind. this was before JLT and im not sure if densecharger was around. that article is what made me chose the FIPK.
11-07-2005, 04:12 PM
#20
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 350
RE: CAI Opinions
I love all of these arguments over which CAI to go with, but does anyone have a link to a comparison done by a reputable magazine or unbiased website showing which CAI is actually giving the best gains? I don't want stories of bubba, the guy down the road who said his car felt faster with this one over that one. I want a cover story by a magazine or unbiased website showing the gains.